Bafang M500/M600 thread

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by HerskerHans » Apr 20 2020 12:37pm

tsellers wrote:
Feb 08 2020 1:51am
Aren't all batteries that are 'in frame' integrated batteries unique to that bike? For example, the battery on my Giant Full-e does not fit other bikes either. The Frey M600 has 4 contact points at the bottom of the battery bay. 2 are positive and negative that come in from the charger port, and are shorted to the positive and negative primary contacts for the motor. As long as you supply the 48V to those points, everything works normally. When you build a battery, you factor a BMS of your choice into the build, it is part of building a battery pack. You can use any BMS that matches the battery you have built, or you can even choose not to use a BMS. (A bike will run on a battery pack that does not have a BMS) EG: you can use a bluetooth BMS if you prefer. I have 2 generic 48V packs from our other bikes, plus one 48V pack that I built from the empty case they gave me, and the 52V pack. All of those 4 packs are ones that I built, they have BMS with the balance function, and they all work fine. 3 of the packs are externally mounted, carried in a seatpost rack, and connect to the motor using one of the empty battery packs that functions as a 'battery eliminator'. That allows me to keep the battery that is in the seatpost bag warm with a liquid fuel handwarmer when the temps are -10 or worse.

To put things into perspective, I assume that if I approached Giant for example and asked to buy an empty battery pack for my Full-e so I could make my own battery eliminator they would tell me to go pound sand. In fact, I asked them for a pin-out for the mains connector last year, and they would not give it to me.

Sorry, I almost forgot, with respect to the Canbus question. There is no Canbus integration in the battery pack, you just need to supply the correct voltage to those positive and negative contact points, and the controller will then power on, and you can then proceed to connect your other tools to the bus if so desired.
Does the throttle also work without 5v/canbus?

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tsellers   100 W

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by tsellers » Apr 20 2020 12:51pm

My limited understanding would lead me to believe that Canbus is integrated into your controller. The controller would also have the required buck converters to use the 48V to supply the 5V. That's why I assumed your motor kit must have a connector for the throttle on the wiring loom.
Regards, John

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by waynebergman » Apr 20 2020 1:56pm

Towards the end of the third page on my thread here https://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/v ... 1&start=50 shows my limited understanding with how the wiring harness works with the conections and cables supplied from Dengfu work. Keep in mind this is way back when the bike was very first released so who knows now if things are different. I think my best guess at the time the link above was posted I had I thought the 5 volt from the battery came directly from the wiring harness from the battery and NOT from the controller (one of the five prongs on Bafang battery pack supplys the 5 volts if I remember right). So hope this helps, I myself will be asking for guidance if and when I go with a new battery pack and wanting to use a 3rd party pack with my throttle. Lets us know how you make out with photos please.....wayne

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by tsellers » Apr 20 2020 2:06pm

Wayne, that may help explain why I cannot make head nor tails out of trying the measure the voltage out of the battery terminals on my Giant Full-e, which prevents me from building my own external battery pack for it.

On my M600 however (which has a throttle), all that battery needs to do is deliver 48 (or 52) volts to the four connections in the bottom of the battery bay (two each of which are shorted to each other and just supply the charge current from the 2.5mm frame connector). I think I previously posted a picture of this in another thread. This would seem to be consistent with the configuration of the old Crystalyte Hubs that I still use.
Regards, John

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by HerskerHans » Apr 21 2020 11:17am

Thanks, i found out that my throttle works, didnt need a 5 volt.

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by waynebergman » Apr 21 2020 11:29am

HI Herskerhans, any chance of sharing some photos or details on how your throtle solution got resolved.

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by HerskerHans » Apr 21 2020 1:25pm

waynebergman wrote:
Apr 21 2020 11:29am
HI Herskerhans, any chance of sharing some photos or details on how your throtle solution got resolved.
I hadnt tested my motor yet, I just saw a loose yellow round 3 pin connector that didnt go anywhere, that basically rests on my battery. I assumed i needed a signal/5v canbus from the battery. But when i powered it on it lookslike everything works with the yellow plugg loose, so you dont need anything else than a 48 or 52v battery with + and - to use this systems, which is great i think, i dont like coded/canbus systems, just annoying and can cause unneccessary errors while riding.

By the way guys, do i need an on off switch on the battery? The bike has an on/off switch on the steering. Does my battery drain if it is powerer on over night, hooked up to the m600 motor?

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Animalector » Apr 21 2020 2:47pm

I have left mine for many days at a time battery connected with a soft-off by the button and have never noticed a drop in charge. I wouldn't leave it like that for months though.

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Waynemarlow » Apr 23 2020 5:02am

Does anybody have a CAD file of the M600 engine I could borrow, looking at modifying a frame to fit it into. Thanks

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Animalector » Apr 23 2020 5:25am

I can take a profile shot, and mark on it the hole spacings if you like... you can measure from that.

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Animalector » Apr 23 2020 5:46am

Maybe this will get you going...

The 100.1 and the 100.2 look like 100mm, and the 180.9 is probably 181 considering half way measured 90.5mm. a bit of trig will get you the angles.

can't give the whole file sorry..

Andy
Bafang Hole Spacings.png
Bafang Hole Spacings.png (178.27 KiB) Viewed 799 times

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Waynemarlow » Apr 28 2020 12:26pm

:thumb:

Thanks

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by HerskerHans » May 10 2020 9:34am

Is the Eggrider display compatible with the m600 or the m500 motor? Looks like you can set som current and speed limits there, i would like to set a max speed to 25kph and a max current once in a while.

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Tom » May 10 2020 6:00pm

Not yet. FLX indicated you can program a few things like speed limit and wheel size with the BESST tool (but it isn't cheap, $100+ on alibaba). Obviously wouldn't work as well as the eggrider for switching profiles on the fly while riding. Hopefully innotrace will come out with an aftermarket controller for the M600 like they did with the Ultra, ideally with an app.

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Animalector » May 10 2020 6:22pm

Contrary to earlier advice from Bafang, you actually can reconfigure the wheel size and upper speed limits using the Besst Programmer and software.

Andy

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Andy123 » May 11 2020 3:44am

Do I need for it unlock code for Besst (from Bafang dealer) or not?

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Animalector » May 11 2020 4:05am

Yes, you can only get a Besst account if you are a Bafang dealer.

But the point is that it is possible...

Andy

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Tom » May 11 2020 2:45pm

How does that work? As you note, I thought you needed a dealer account. FLX was claiming on a facebook group that users could change speed and wheel size and they sold a tool and that users could program it. Would FLX be giving users their login? It was in a thread where they got defensive about support and the entire thread seemed to have been pulled.

They do sell the BESST tool: https://flx.bike/products/bafang-besst-service-tool

I note it says "This tool is specifically made to work with PC/Windows Computers, and requires login credentials provided by FLX Bike. Please contact us for further inquiries."

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by HerskerHans » May 12 2020 12:00pm

Tom wrote:
Feb 15 2020 1:15am
Anyone have the skinny on compatible M600 displays? My impression from reading the Luna support thread for the X1 is the DP C240 was the only compatible display.

https://electricbike.com/forum/forum/kn ... o-fs-ebike
Display is a special display that works only with this bike, no other display will work for it. It uses CAN communication so it will not work with any BBSxx / Ultra series display.
However, I've seen an alternate display on alibaba referred to as DPC-23 or DP 230.CAN:

Image

Also, FLX has a larger color display (appears to be a DPC-18 variant with CAN communication) referred to as "G3 Special Edition Display" but specs say it's only compatible with their special edition bikes.

https://flx.bike/products/lcd-display-dz-multi

There are also specific versions of the DPC240 tied to serial number and/or class. Seems like display compatibility is tied to firmware? I suppose it's also possible the display feeds the controller some pre-programmed settings like max speed?
maybe this display is possible to use on the M600 i dont know yet, im gonna ask them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNAfeiJrAd8

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by kiwitourer » May 13 2020 3:30am

Hi. Just wondering if anyone has had any success installing brake cut-offs and/or gear sensor cut-off? As others have mentioned on this forum, the ability to cut power with a quick flick of the brakes really helps with technical climbs. According to the specifications on the Bafang website the M600 does support ebrake and gear sensor control. I have ordered 2 bikes from Dengfu using their latest frame E-10 with the M600 but it seems that standard wiring harness supplied does not have any pre-wired cables for these cut-off sensors. Something as basic as a wiring diagram would be great but Bafang do not seem to publish one.

Looks like some customisation is required so any insights would be greatly appreciated. Cheers

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by kiwitourer » May 13 2020 3:40am

For anyone interested I have attached the specs for the new Dengfu frame E10. This is their upgrade to the current M09 used for Luna X1. SMART features are currently being tested which suggests that there may a chance that Bafang is opening up some of the communication protocols to the M600. These are being launched with the Forestal Siryon as part of their partnership with Bafang so here is hoping.
E10 Geometry.JPG
E10 Geometry.JPG (82.18 KiB) Viewed 458 times
E10 Bike Complete.jpg
E10 Bike Complete.jpg (127.65 KiB) Viewed 458 times

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by ilegal » May 13 2020 7:16am

kiwitourer wrote:
May 13 2020 3:30am
Hi. Just wondering if anyone has had any success installing brake cut-offs and/or gear sensor cut-off? As others have mentioned on this forum, the ability to cut power with a quick flick of the brakes really helps with technical climbs. According to the specifications on the Bafang website the M600 does support ebrake and gear sensor control. I have ordered 2 bikes from Dengfu using their latest frame E-10 with the M600 but it seems that standard wiring harness supplied does not have any pre-wired cables for these cut-off sensors. Something as basic as a wiring diagram would be great but Bafang do not seem to publish one.
I´ve done it, I have brake sensor, but got rid of the stock controller and turned into the cheap reliable KT-LCD system. No torque sensor, but I like it that way.

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Kepler » May 13 2020 9:06pm

kiwitourer wrote:
May 13 2020 3:40am
For anyone interested I have attached the specs for the new Dengfu frame E10. This is their upgrade to the current M09 used for Luna X1. SMART features are currently being tested which suggests that there may a chance that Bafang is opening up some of the communication protocols to the M600. These are being launched with the Forestal Siryon as part of their partnership with Bafang so here is hoping.
E10 Geometry.JPG
E10 Bike Complete.jpg
Looks like an improvement in geometry over the E09. The rear shock geometry has been improved and it has a longer reach which is on trend with most of the new commercial enduro style bikes currently being released. A bit slacker at 65 degrees. BB clearance still looks poor. Looks to be still still 27.5" wheels. I recon I would still be going down the mullet path with this frame using a 160mm fork and 29er front wheel.
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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Thedingostolemyusername » May 14 2020 7:34pm

This was asked earlier, apologies if I missed the answer.

Is the M500 and 600 motor mount the same?

Ie if my frame builder tells me it's for G520, the M600 will fit it.

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Animalector » May 14 2020 7:53pm

M500 and M600 are the same physical mounts. I have mounted both to the same bike.

The M500 is MM G520.250
The M600 is MM G521.500

Andy

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