Bafang M500/M600 thread

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by tsellers » Jul 08 2020 12:27am

I was thinking that if the magnet was further toward the outside of the wheel it came around slower, which I now realize was a very silly thought: of course one turn of the wheel is the same as one turn of the spindle. Previously, before I moved it back, I suppose with it so far away from the sensor it might have 'skipped' registering a revolution, but if that was the case, I should get lower speed readings, not faster.

So I guess I need to find another reason the speed display is out. It's pretty certain that when my display reads 34km/hr I'm actually going 30 or 31, and I can feel the PAS stop assist around 40 if I'm not mistaken, which in reality is probably around 36 and not 40. (I'll double check the wheel size in the settings, but I seem to recall when I went through them it had the right size set already).

Thanks for straightening that out!
Regards, John

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by amberwolf » Jul 08 2020 11:22pm

tsellers wrote:
Jul 08 2020 12:27am
It's pretty certain that when my display reads 34km/hr I'm actually going 30 or 31, and I can feel the PAS stop assist around 40 if I'm not mistaken, which in reality is probably around 36 and not 40. (I'll double check the wheel size in the settings, but I seem to recall when I went through them it had the right size set already)
Does it just have a "26" or "20" or whatever size, or does it actually let you set the circumference in mm? If the former, the speed can be off by quite a bit depending on how different their tire size was than yours. If the latter, you can measure yours with a number of methods, with the tire pressure you acually use, and put that in, to ensure accurate readings.

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by tsellers » Jul 08 2020 11:40pm

Thanks for the update. The display just offers the one setting of 27.5 for wheel size, and it cannot be changed.

In the winter when I was running the smaller studded tires, the speed seemed to be only out by 1.5km/hr. Now that I have the larger stock factory tires on, it seems to have doubled the error margin. So I guess I'll have to run on bare rims to get an accurate speed!
Regards, John

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Animalector » Jul 09 2020 12:20am

I'll check the Besst settings and advise how it is configured.

Regards
Andy

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by amberwolf » Jul 09 2020 12:35am

tsellers wrote:
Jul 08 2020 11:40pm
The display just offers the one setting of 27.5 for wheel size, and it cannot be changed.
Not much you can do about that without some electronics between the speed sensor and the controller.

If you wanted to, you could make something with a small MCU, maybe atttiny, etc., that you program with the ratio of your actual tire diameter vs the calculated diameter it's using (the difference between your actual wheel speed and what it thinks it is), and it applies that to the pulses coming in from the speed sensor and calculates the pulses to send to the controller to give the corrected speed reading. It would probably take a few to a few dozen pulses to do it, so it may not be quite realtime, but it will be close enough except at really low speeds.

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Animalector » Jul 09 2020 4:56am

So the "wheel size" is a drop down selectable, 27, 28, 29 etc. but you can set the circumference exactly. see pic.
Setting-screen.png
Setting-screen.png (99.63 KiB) Viewed 632 times

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by tsellers » Jul 09 2020 10:42am

Thanks guys for the help!

With respect to:
So the "wheel size" is a drop down selectable,
If my impression from other threads is correct, that software and cable (not the same cables as the BBSHD, etc., motors) is not available in the public domain for the M600?
Regards, John

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by racingame » Jul 10 2020 3:54am

Could somebody please share a complete scheme of all cables for this motor? Something like this: https://i.imgur.com/lcz7NIJ.png

If possible, I'd like to have a photo showing all cables and connectors that are included with the motor, since the only photo I could find while searching online is this small one posted here by an user: https://i.imgur.com/D1Ar1om.jpg

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Bigwheel » Jul 11 2020 4:56pm

Another contender: http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/mot ... -bikes.htm

No mention of a throttle and sent an inquiry because that is a must for me. Otherwise it seems ok and I prefer an alu frame over CF anyway. I have been riding mtb for 40yrs. and this would be all I'd need and probably more suspension wise as i only have a hardtail with an 80mm fork and 2 other rigid eBikes and I get around ok on them and the terrain close by.

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Bigwheel » Jul 17 2020 10:23pm

An interesting solution in FS and Ht
https://m.btn-ebike.com/product/Frame_k ... 00_FS.html

No pricing up front

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by theflyinglandwalrus » Jul 26 2020 8:43pm

I've seen posts about the motor having a thermal limiter. Do you guys have any documentation regarding that? I live in the Philippines and weather here is 90F minimum almost all year round so I usually experience the motor power surging when doing extended steep climbs.

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Luigi.Pelliconi » Jul 28 2020 4:13pm

new problem bafang M600 bearing (One-Way) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnL93LUy5lc&t=1s
Last edited by Luigi.Pelliconi on Jul 29 2020 3:21pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Animalector » Jul 28 2020 5:35pm

should the small gear spin or not?

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by tsellers » Jul 28 2020 6:49pm

Hey Luigi,
Suggestion: Enable 'Community contribution' on your video and that way Italian speaking members may be able to help translate the audio in your video.

I don't speak Italian, but he says 'problema scatto libero' which Google translate suggests means 'free snap issue'. It looks like the small gear must turn free, and is seized.
Regards, John

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Animalector » Jul 28 2020 7:06pm

I have an M500 unit that has failed. Here are the symptoms.
1. I used the BESST tool to perform a "position sensor calibration"
2. The motor spun inside but the wheel didn't turn. It stopped after a second or two
3. The motor now "free spins" inside with no power delivery to the output gear.

I think the position sensor calibration process spun the motor backwards or something. I have had the motor apart but nothing is obvious. But I cannot tell if a one-way bearing is letting go under load..

There is motor resistance when rolling the bike backwards as normal.

It would be good to "fix" this problem

Andy

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Luigi.Pelliconi » Jul 29 2020 10:32am

hello Animalector
have you seen our video the gear turns in a free direction and in the other direction it drags the gear
if the one-way bearing (One-Way) is blocked, the gear drags in both directions.
The problem is found even when the bike is off, pedaling and the engine can be heard

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Animalector » Jul 29 2020 3:48pm

Gotcha.. so it is "Supposed to free spin one direction only, and drive the other direction." my behaviour is different. (I guess) I'll pull it apart again.

cheers
Andy

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Position of Speed Sensor on your M600?

Post by tsellers » Aug 01 2020 2:30pm

I have a question that perhaps other M600 owners can help with depending on what frame they have.

I received a Frey M600 V2 last year. The spoke magnet and sensor are located on the right side chainstay of the bike, same side as the cassette. This is what it looks like:
Image

I've outlined this problem previously in the forum: The first time I shifted to the lowest gear, it brought the derailleur cage plate so close to the spokes that the cage plate caught the magnet, bending the spoke, the cage plate, and the hanger. After much experimentation, to make this work, I have had to mount the magnet almost horizontally, and add another magnet to it (as seen in picture above). I also had to replace the derailleur and hanger.

A couple of days ago we received a Frey EX and some CC bikes, and I noted the sensor is mounted on the left side chainstay on the side opposite the chain and cassette, which gives it ample room to avoid a collision with the cage plate.

This makes me wonder, did the Frey M600 I received have an anomaly in where the sensor is mounted? (I've asked our rep Grace at Frey for clarity on a few occasions, but got no answer to this particular issue). If not, then I can't figure out why other owners of this same frame have not reported the same issue?
Regards, John

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Animalector » Aug 02 2020 5:21am

Some options.

possible you may need to dish the rear rim towards the non-drive side, loosen all drive side spokes by -1 turn. Tighten all non-drive side spokes by +1 turn. this will move the rim and increase the angle of the spokes, moving the magnet away (hopefully enough)

Another thing to check is to make sure that your limit screws are set on the derailleur correctly. In top gear, screw in the limit screw so that it still changes up into the top gear, but cannot move past towards the spokes.

Last option... relocate the sensor further towards the rim. This will move it away from the derailleur.

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by tsellers » Aug 02 2020 10:33am

Thanks Animalector,

Problem is, I probably need something like another 3mm of clearance.

I wonder if #1 might work.

For #2, my tolerances for that gear will not allow me to get what I need, I spent a fair bit of time tuning the limit screws and playing with them.

#3 would be a good solution. The sensor has a mount bracket welded to the chain plate that the mount screw goes into, so I'd have to figure out an alternative mounting method. I guess if I did that, then I could mount the sensor on the chainstay on the other side, which is what they've done with their newer models.
Regards, John

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Animalector » Aug 02 2020 3:48pm

#3.. a block of plastic with some cable ties should do it..
Andy

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by tsellers » Aug 02 2020 3:56pm

Thanks Andy,

I will explore that option.

I'm still rather surprised that there are no other Frey M600 owners that have been able to chime in with how theirs is setup. If all of this model of bike got shipped the same, there must be others that have had to deal with this as well.
Regards, John

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Tom » Aug 03 2020 12:28am

Can those with non-Luna M600 comment on torque sensing characteristics in PAS 1-2 of 5? Is is distinctly different than PAS 3-5 of 5? On my Luna X1 (non-ludi) there is a distinct change in torque sensing recipe below 50% PAS. Hardly any assist in PAS 1-2 unless you are really puting pressure the pedals and it cuts out mid cadence unless you apply constant pressure. Very annoying and not smooth at all. I find it unusable. In PAS 3+ it's fine, but almost too much power to get a good workout. I have not heard a lot of complaints from non Luna owners so I'm thinking it may be unique to Luna's tuning.

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Re: Bafang M500/M600 thread

Post by Animalector » Aug 03 2020 4:52am

M500 or M600?

M500 level 1 and 2 are just to overcome the weight of the bike. They feel like riding a normal bike.. very smooth power delivery good modulation and integration (feel)
Level 3 is where you actually notice the power bit still smooth and linear to the rider input. And this is like level 1 with the M600.. but the m600 is a little bit jerkier..

I want Bafang to develop a smart mode like Bosch... a logarithmic or exponential response factoring cadence as well... Hopefully this comes as a firmware update...

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