Most reliable Mid drive motor kit?

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
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cwah   10 GW

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Most reliable Mid drive motor kit?

Post by cwah » Sep 16 2019 4:46pm

Hello,



I had very bad experience buying few years ago 2 BBS02 kit. They both failed. They can't handle high mileage. They need to be greased as well.



I just can't be bothered to do any maintenance and decided to change to Direct drive.



But I wonder if progress have been made? Ideally I'd like a kit which would be maintenance free for 50k+ miles. And obviously easy to find part for maintenance.



Any idea? Or I stick to Direct drive?



Thank you
Help me find my stolen electric brompton: http://bit.ly/1a0vbBC and Bosch Sinus B3 http://bit.ly/1eV0WQz

dustNbone   10 kW

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Re: Most reliable Mid drive motor kit?

Post by dustNbone » Sep 16 2019 5:22pm

I've got over 30,000km on my BBS02 now, since I replaced the internal controller with a 25A Grinfineon I haven't had a single issue with it.

I do grease it twice a year, and I think you'll find that all mid drives have gear sets in them that will need their lubricant changed periodically, especially if you want them to be quiet and live a long time.

I'm also pretty kind to it, I don't use PAS, I keep it in the right gear, and use my legs to get myself moving before I give it full throttle.

If they're not abused, the BBS02B seems mechanically to be reasonably solid, and if you do need parts for it I don't think there's another mid drive with better parts availability.

If you truly don't want to perform maintenance, a DD hub is what you want.

flat tire   1 MW

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Re: Most reliable Mid drive motor kit?

Post by flat tire » Sep 16 2019 6:31pm

50K miles no maintenance? Yeah and let's drive the family sedan to Pluto.

2old   100 kW

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Re: Most reliable Mid drive motor kit?

Post by 2old » Sep 16 2019 6:35pm

30,000 km = about 18,000 miles.

flat tire   1 MW

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Re: Most reliable Mid drive motor kit?

Post by flat tire » Sep 16 2019 6:38pm

2old wrote:
Sep 16 2019 6:35pm
30,000 km = about 18,000 miles.
The OP wants 50K miles, braindead.

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methods   10 GW

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Re: Most reliable Mid drive motor kit?

Post by methods » Sep 16 2019 6:49pm

I worked with some of the early Mid-Drive equipment.
It SUCKED

Looking around now. . . (not at kits but parts on the road)
In Santa Cruz we are converging on 50-50 Ebikes for Standard Bikes (not a joke!!!)

Most are actually mid-drive
High end
Shop Purchased

I would say... 3:1 mid drive around here.

From a longevity standpoint, I am sure all of these will fail the customer as the batteries and individual parts are so specific and so expensive and so unique. Not until things settle on some sort of AutoZone standard will it be worth it to go the route of Mid Drive...

A hub is a hub is a hub
A controller is a controller is a controller
A Pack is a pack is a pack

Unless it is all super-custom built in...

BUT
That is not what you were asking about.

I have no idea what the answer is, but I am quite interested. I would love to see some aftermarket mid-drive kits and would be more than happy to talk the wife into buying one.

-methods
Increasing battery voltage and controller current limit will result in a non linear experience

hypertoric_amplituhedron   100 W

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Re: Most reliable Mid drive motor kit?

Post by hypertoric_amplituhedron » Sep 16 2019 7:10pm

Hmm, maybe look into the AFT cyclone 3000 kit? They do a rather extensive rebuild, and redesign of just about everything. It's $$$$$ , but known for its high mileage abilities. They get away from the grease, in exchange for a super lightweight 0w oil with a very high molybdenum content, to help with the hardened nylon gear sets that they use. The oil bath is probably going to be less intrusive to service than a grease system, I would imagine. And it screams too, awesome sound from what few videos there are.
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Aquakitty   100 W

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Re: Most reliable Mid drive motor kit?

Post by Aquakitty » Sep 16 2019 11:31pm

I suppose you could custom machine every part in a mid-drive. It's just not possible for them to be more reliable when they have more parts to potentially break. Fifty thousand kilometers with no maintenance is a very unreasonable bar to set.
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GT Verb Comp f/s TSDZ2 open source 48v
Diadora Ampio bargain f/s TSDZ2 48v
2020 Diamant 247 belt drive 1000w 9C 48v
Hardtail made from random bits I had laying around, ginormous old Marzocchi fork, BBS02

aCeMadMod   1 kW

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Re: Most reliable Mid drive motor kit?

Post by aCeMadMod » Sep 17 2019 4:54am

I done all of this . Costom

Once 1 year chage chian and sockets.

I sill have my first cyclone 7 year later.


30k seem good up time

Steel it key. Cheap ez to replace

But pay for good lipo and chages 3 set of batterys

Good lucky

cwah   10 GW

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Re: Most reliable Mid drive motor kit?

Post by cwah » Sep 17 2019 12:28pm

Thanks guys. So no mid drive for me...
Help me find my stolen electric brompton: http://bit.ly/1a0vbBC and Bosch Sinus B3 http://bit.ly/1eV0WQz

SlowCo   100 kW

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Re: Most reliable Mid drive motor kit?

Post by SlowCo » Sep 17 2019 1:34pm

I would think a BBSHD kit that would be detuned from the factory max amps of 30A to 20A peak would last a long time. But would still need a re-grease and sprocket&chain maintanance once in a while. Riding it like dustNbone describes riding his BBS02 is best to keep such a mid drive system happy.

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methods   10 GW

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Re: Most reliable Mid drive motor kit?

Post by methods » Sep 18 2019 3:57pm

Folks were doing mid-drive kits with 2 stages and belts a long time ago.
Bought a trike from a guy who was experimenting heavily
Not sure where all that went.

Belts are nice. . .

-methods
Increasing battery voltage and controller current limit will result in a non linear experience

kcuf   100 W

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Re: Most reliable Mid drive motor kit?

Post by kcuf » Sep 18 2019 4:37pm

stay under 1000w bbshd very reliable

nyc cargo ebikes well over +10k miles


stay under 500w bbs02 very reliable


trouble is most users operate bbshd 1500w

or 900-1000w bbs02


not gonna last @ those levels
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cwah   10 GW

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Re: Most reliable Mid drive motor kit?

Post by cwah » Sep 18 2019 6:18pm

kcuf wrote:
Sep 18 2019 4:37pm
stay under 1000w bbshd very reliable

nyc cargo ebikes well over +10k miles


stay under 500w bbs02 very reliable


trouble is most users operate bbshd 1500w

or 900-1000w bbs02


not gonna last @ those levels
I used 2 BBS02 at manufacturer level (although I've set to the max power from the setting), and both failed within a year.
Help me find my stolen electric brompton: http://bit.ly/1a0vbBC and Bosch Sinus B3 http://bit.ly/1eV0WQz

dustNbone   10 kW

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Re: Most reliable Mid drive motor kit?

Post by dustNbone » Sep 18 2019 6:47pm

I run my BBS02 at 25A, so over 1200W peak. Just don't be a dick to it, and it will be fine.

kcuf   100 W

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Re: Most reliable Mid drive motor kit?

Post by kcuf » Sep 18 2019 10:03pm

bbsxx

stock factory power level

exceeds continuous rating


levels 1-9 enabled

use 6 or below

will not exceed continuous limit
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JoeAverage   1 mW

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Re: Most reliable Mid drive motor kit?

Post by JoeAverage » Sep 20 2019 4:09pm

I have 2500 miles on my BBHD. No electrical problems.

Did break a tooth off of the pinion shaft but that was abuse. The motor tended to loosen up and I've let tons of people ride my bike. I'm pretty sure everyone mashing the throttle hard from a standstill (like a motorcycle) and causing that motor to rotate up and click hard against the frame killed the pinion gear. Now I instruct people to pedal like a bicycle and once moving then they can play with the throttle.

Since then I saw and copied a solution using a sailboat turnbuckle. Do a Google search for "Bafang sailboat turnbuckle" and then click on images. It keeps the motor up tight against the bottom of the downtube. MUCH more solid feeling.

FWIW when my pinion gear broke I assumed it was the nylon gear that had lost a tooth. It looked perfect and I reinstalled it. I also cleaned everything and regreased it with Mobil 28 grease as suggested here (I think).

I have not had sprocket, chain or cassette problems.

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