Luna Cycle X-1 Enduro FS (Bafang M600 / Dengfu M09)

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jimmyN   100 mW

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Re: Luna Cycle X-1 Enduro FS (Bafang M600 / Dengfu M09)

Post by jimmyN » Oct 28 2019 11:28pm

Yes that's the one, but I upgraded the kit with a custom 25mm belt and 6" pulley to slow the cadence. It was my favorite bike of all time, well that was until today when I unboxed my X1 :D
robocam wrote:
Oct 28 2019 11:13pm
I almost returned my X-1 without even opening it when I read about the noise complaint and saw the video. People need to know how quiet it truly is, and you got yours today, so it should get even quieter with a few more miles.

Is that the 2015 GNG with the 20mm-wide belt? I have that one too, and it is so loud. I can't imagine how loud the chain-driven version might be.
jimmyN wrote:
Oct 28 2019 10:55pm
I received my X1 today, I was very impressed, It looks to be very well built. I went with the Ludi upgrade and I'm glad I did, I live in an area with lots of great steep trails, it climbs like a goat and just floats on the downhill. I hung it in my garage next to my Cannondale W/GNG belt reduction kit and did some sound comparisons. I held the decibel meter at 4' above the crank and ran the throttle wide open the GNG peaked at 85.5 decibels the Bafang M600 was 59.8 when i let off the throttle the rear freewheel peaked the meter at 60.4. With all this discussion about how loud this motor is I was a little worried but once I rode the bike I realized it's not a problem at all, at least for me, I thought it was funny the freewheeling rear wheel makes more noise than the M600. I took one more test at the end, I rode the bike down the street with no power just pedaling, third gear, flat ground, light headwind and the meter peaked at 71 db. Great Bike, Very good value.

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Re: Luna Cycle X-1 Enduro FS (Bafang M600 / Dengfu M09)

Post by robocam » Oct 28 2019 11:31pm

I'm happy with my X-1 too, but I wonder if I would have purchased it if I had known about the Revel Propulsion kit. Ron wrote about it at the end of July, and I ordered my X-1 in June. But then I may not have chosen it since they didn't offer it with a throttle at the time. They said they may include a throttle in the next production run. Oh well :)

https://www.revelpropulsion.com/store-1 ... otor-kit-2

https://www.electricbike.com/the-revel- ... APDDlmxszQ

I'm thinking about adding one onto one of my kids' bikes (Specialized Stumpjumper) so that they can join me on the trails. It's either this or the TSDZ2, and this one's much lighter.

It's ~10 lbs including the battery, and the drive can fit inside the triangle. It has a torque sensor and uses an EggRider, so you can change settings with your phone. Oh, and it's also supposedly silent.

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipO ... FBaWlqLTFn

Here's a video. I can't hear any sound from the motor.

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipO ... FBaWlqLTFn
waynebergman wrote:
Oct 22 2019 6:33pm
...Hey Robocam, I also mentioned way back a full year ago when I got this drive that there just were no other options and that was back then, I feel just like you there just are no other options for lighter weight, good ground clearance and throttle and torque sensor etc etc. I am still super happy with my bike .....:)
...

jimmyN   100 mW

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Re: Luna Cycle X-1 Enduro FS (Bafang M600 / Dengfu M09)

Post by jimmyN » Oct 29 2019 12:45am

That does look like an interesting option, I’ve been thinking about upgrading my sons bike, this could be a good fit. But for me I have realized that I need a bike like the X1 that has been properly engineered to accommodate the power and weight that we are adding to these bikes, I have completely destroyed my Cannondale, but then again it was never designed to do what I’ve been doing with it.
robocam wrote:
Oct 28 2019 11:31pm
I'm happy with my X-1 too, but I wonder if I would have purchased it if I had known about the Revel Propulsion kit. Ron wrote about it at the end of July, and I ordered my X-1 in June. But then I may not have chosen it since they didn't offer it with a throttle at the time. They said they may include a throttle in the next production run. Oh well :)

https://www.revelpropulsion.com/store-1 ... otor-kit-2

https://www.electricbike.com/the-revel- ... APDDlmxszQ

I'm thinking about adding one onto one of my kids' bikes (Specialized Stumpjumper) so that they can join me on the trails. It's either this or the TSDZ2, and this one's much lighter.

It's ~10 lbs including the battery, and the drive can fit inside the triangle. It has a torque sensor and uses an EggRider, so you can change settings with your phone. Oh, and it's also supposedly silent.

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipO ... FBaWlqLTFn

Here's a video. I can't hear any sound from the motor.

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipO ... FBaWlqLTFn
waynebergman wrote:
Oct 22 2019 6:33pm
...Hey Robocam, I also mentioned way back a full year ago when I got this drive that there just were no other options and that was back then, I feel just like you there just are no other options for lighter weight, good ground clearance and throttle and torque sensor etc etc. I am still super happy with my bike .....:)
...

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robocam   10 kW

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Re: Luna Cycle X-1 Enduro FS (Bafang M600 / Dengfu M09)

Post by robocam » Oct 29 2019 1:15am

Did you change the controller from stock on your GNG? The Revel kit is 450W peak, so it shouldn't abuse your bike at all. I've been running a Cyclone 3000 on a Trek HiFi Pro 29 for several years (started out as a 29 lb XC bike), and I haven't noticed any unusual wear. I keep worrying that the swing arm might snap off one day because I pull several trailers (my profile pic), up to 6 at a time but it hasn't yet :) The hydroformed tubing is so lightweight that it seems like you could dent it with your finger.

If you start out with a 29 lb bike, you could have a 39 lb ebike! That's lighter than my full suspension Walmart Mongoose!
jimmyN wrote:
Oct 29 2019 12:45am
That does look like an interesting option, I’ve been thinking about upgrading my sons bike, this could be a good fit. But for me I have realized that I need a bike like the X1 that has been properly engineered to accommodate the power and weight that we are adding to these bikes, I have completely destroyed my Cannondale, but then again it was never designed to do what I’ve been doing with it.
robocam wrote:
Oct 28 2019 11:31pm
I'm happy with my X-1 too, but I wonder if I would have purchased it if I had known about the Revel Propulsion kit. Ron wrote about it at the end of July, and I ordered my X-1 in June. But then I may not have chosen it since they didn't offer it with a throttle at the time. They said they may include a throttle in the next production run. Oh well :)

https://www.revelpropulsion.com/store-1 ... otor-kit-2

https://www.electricbike.com/the-revel- ... APDDlmxszQ

I'm thinking about adding one onto one of my kids' bikes (Specialized Stumpjumper) so that they can join me on the trails. It's either this or the TSDZ2, and this one's much lighter.

It's ~10 lbs including the battery, and the drive can fit inside the triangle. It has a torque sensor and uses an EggRider, so you can change settings with your phone. Oh, and it's also supposedly silent.

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipO ... FBaWlqLTFn

Here's a video. I can't hear any sound from the motor.

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipO ... FBaWlqLTFn
waynebergman wrote:
Oct 22 2019 6:33pm
...Hey Robocam, I also mentioned way back a full year ago when I got this drive that there just were no other options and that was back then, I feel just like you there just are no other options for lighter weight, good ground clearance and throttle and torque sensor etc etc. I am still super happy with my bike .....:)
...

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Re: Luna Cycle X-1 Enduro FS (Bafang M600 / Dengfu M09)

Post by bradland » Oct 29 2019 6:57am

jimmyN wrote:
Oct 28 2019 10:55pm
I received my X1 today, I was very impressed, It looks to be very well built. I went with the Ludi upgrade and I'm glad I did, I live in an area with lots of great steep trails, it climbs like a goat and just floats on the downhill. I hung it in my garage next to my Cannondale W/GNG belt reduction kit and did some sound comparisons. I held the decibel meter at 4' above the crank and ran the throttle wide open the GNG peaked at 85.5 decibels the Bafang M600 was 59.8 when i let off the throttle the rear freewheel peaked the meter at 60.4. With all this discussion about how loud this motor is I was a little worried but once I rode the bike I realized it's not a problem at all, at least for me, I thought it was funny the freewheeling rear wheel makes more noise than the M600. I took one more test at the end, I rode the bike down the street with no power just pedaling, third gear, flat ground, light headwind and the meter peaked at 71 db. Great Bike, Very good value.
Same experience here. Tires and freewheel are louder than the motor.

jimmyN   100 mW

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Re: Luna Cycle X-1 Enduro FS (Bafang M600 / Dengfu M09)

Post by jimmyN » Oct 29 2019 10:24am

I bought the kit used from a guy on this site, it looked brand new and I believe the controller was stock, I had ran it for years before I actually put an amp meter on it and realized it was producing 1500 W, so I’m not sure if it was the stock controller or if he had changed it. I can tell you one thing for sure, that set up is incredible. It’s funny the reaction you get from people that are unfamiliar with what we do, they would look at my Frankenstein bike with absolute amazement and asked me “what is that”, and I would reply, this is the most fun you can have on two wheels!
robocam wrote:
Oct 29 2019 1:15am
Did you change the controller from stock on your GNG? The Revel kit is 450W peak, so it shouldn't abuse your bike at all. I've been running a Cyclone 3000 on a Trek HiFi Pro 29 for several years (started out as a 29 lb XC bike), and I haven't noticed any unusual wear. I keep worrying that the swing arm might snap off one day because I pull several trailers (my profile pic), up to 6 at a time but it hasn't yet :) The hydroformed tubing is so lightweight that it seems like you could dent it with your finger.

If you start out with a 29 lb bike, you could have a 39 lb ebike! That's lighter than my full suspension Walmart Mongoose!
jimmyN wrote:
Oct 29 2019 12:45am
That does look like an interesting option, I’ve been thinking about upgrading my sons bike, this could be a good fit. But for me I have realized that I need a bike like the X1 that has been properly engineered to accommodate the power and weight that we are adding to these bikes, I have completely destroyed my Cannondale, but then again it was never designed to do what I’ve been doing with it.
robocam wrote:
Oct 28 2019 11:31pm
I'm happy with my X-1 too, but I wonder if I would have purchased it if I had known about the Revel Propulsion kit. Ron wrote about it at the end of July, and I ordered my X-1 in June. But then I may not have chosen it since they didn't offer it with a throttle at the time. They said they may include a throttle in the next production run. Oh well :)

https://www.revelpropulsion.com/store-1 ... otor-kit-2

https://www.electricbike.com/the-revel- ... APDDlmxszQ

I'm thinking about adding one onto one of my kids' bikes (Specialized Stumpjumper) so that they can join me on the trails. It's either this or the TSDZ2, and this one's much lighter.

It's ~10 lbs including the battery, and the drive can fit inside the triangle. It has a torque sensor and uses an EggRider, so you can change settings with your phone. Oh, and it's also supposedly silent.

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipO ... FBaWlqLTFn

Here's a video. I can't hear any sound from the motor.

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipO ... FBaWlqLTFn
waynebergman wrote:
Oct 22 2019 6:33pm
...Hey Robocam, I also mentioned way back a full year ago when I got this drive that there just were no other options and that was back then, I feel just like you there just are no other options for lighter weight, good ground clearance and throttle and torque sensor etc etc. I am still super happy with my bike .....:)
...

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robocam   10 kW

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New quiet gear for M600!

Post by robocam » Feb 13 2020 3:00am

Luna Cycle has developed a quiet gear for the M600. Sounds as quiet if not quieter than the BBSHD under load. I ordered one yesterday, so I'll report my findings.

https://lunacycle.com/blog/luna-develop ... fang-m600/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pf78B2H ... e=emb_logo
Last edited by robocam on Feb 13 2020 5:25am, edited 1 time in total.

Tom   100 W

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Re: Luna Cycle X-1 Enduro FS (Bafang M600 / Dengfu M09)

Post by Tom » Feb 13 2020 4:08am

That's great news. May give it another go if it reduces the noise 50%. Sure hope they are planning to bring back the matte carbon black color. It was a piece of art. Hate the new glossy X1 colors.

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Re: Luna Cycle X-1 Enduro FS (Bafang M600 / Dengfu M09)

Post by fechter » Feb 13 2020 3:08pm

PEEK is pretty good stuff. I hope they come out with versions for the BBSHD and Ultra.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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Re: Luna Cycle X-1 Enduro FS (Bafang M600 / Dengfu M09)

Post by Marmalade » Feb 14 2020 5:21pm

Can't even hear my metal geared m600 when riding behind it. Can hear it whilst on the bike, and it is a bit louder than the ultra as people have noticed.

The one year warranty on the luna gear doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in the product.. rather keep the metal gear and know it's going to hold together under all loads.. hate to be out in the bush and have to walk out.

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Re: Luna Cycle X-1 Enduro FS (Bafang M600 / Dengfu M09)

Post by Tom » Feb 14 2020 6:58pm

I'd think you could still pedal if the reduction gear goes out, just no e-assist. I haven't heard of that many BBSHD or BBS02 failures with the Bafang nylon gear so wouldn't be too worried about it on the M600 with higher spec material. Guess it depends on how hard you push the motor. Peace and quiet is worth the tradeoff for me.

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Re: Luna Cycle X-1 Enduro FS (Bafang M600 / Dengfu M09)

Post by Surfingjeff » Feb 28 2020 9:18pm

robocam wrote:
Oct 08 2019 6:31am
Man, if the X-1 could be like a Ludicrous plastic-geared BBSHD, that would just be a dream. I mean even if the M600 was a BBSHD with a torque sensor, I'd be more than happy. But Bafang needs to bring back the ability for us to program it. Why can't Bafang just make it with a larger plastic gear that doesn't break? All they have to do is make it a little wider, or spin the motor a little faster and/or reduce the current. It can still output the same amount of power and spin the crankset at the same speed.

And how come someone hasn't figured out a way to hack a throttle onto the Levo?

But regarding the X-1 video, you can hear his breathing and sniffling. I mean, you can't normally hear people's breathing, so that mic on the camera is very sensitive. He's also going like 7-8 mph. I'll have to post my ride video from Sunday. I go a lot faster in parts, and when you go that fast, what you hear is wind noise and trail noise.
Tom wrote:
Oct 08 2019 5:23am
Here's another video that popped up in my recommended list. This isn't a M600, it's a BBSHD with Ludi. I thought it was an interesting comparison because Luna states the M600 is "slightly louder than a BBSHD if you ever seen one." Perhaps this is just a really quiet BBSHD:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYSiKYG58As

When I go back to the X1 video, it almost seems comical:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dh8H-PJEb3g
I have friends that have re programmed the older Levo and the Kenenvo . It’s a app you can down load that removes the limits . I rode the Kenenvo and compared to my Spitzing R and it’s comparable not as torquie but pretty nice and so much travel . I know we can do this to the 2018 models not sure about any newer I need to ask .

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Re: Luna Cycle X-1 Enduro FS (Bafang M600 / Dengfu M09)

Post by Bigwheel » Mar 25 2020 3:17pm

So at this point those that have an X1, do you give it a yay or nay? I noticed that Luna has a silent package for an extra 200 clams but that seems a bit extreme price wise to me as I mainly ride alone and came out of the e closet years ago anyway. My front hub eX bikes are very quiet as well as the TSDZ2 system on my eMTB is not that noisy either but the must have is a throttle and integrated mid drives, which I am after to get rid of the udder effect, with throttled torque PAS bikes are limited to this Bafang series for my needs as I don't need the extra weight and power of the Ultra.

I like the Revel setup alot but the square taper crank thing is a total turnoff for me because although all my bikes have it currently and have for years, I have sworn to never again get a bike that has them.....the splined interface is just so much better.

Also could anyone confirm that the X1 has 18650 cells? I have been using 2170's for two years and would find it hard to go backwards in the battery department as they are a notch above in all categories IMNSHO.

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Re: Luna Cycle X-1 Enduro FS (Bafang M600 / Dengfu M09)

Post by Joost5000 » Mar 25 2020 4:46pm

I don’t see much 2170 packs out on the market; you know what’s the reason for that?

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Re: Luna Cycle X-1 Enduro FS (Bafang M600 / Dengfu M09)

Post by bradland » Mar 25 2020 4:48pm

I'm at almost 800 miles now, and I'd give it a firm yay. My riding environment is sandy Florida trails, which is probably a bit different than most of the guys who live near any kind of mountains. The bike has taken everything I've thrown at it, and that includes quite a few spills. Everything works like the day I bought it, with the exception of a throttle cable connector that got pulled in one of said spills. Luna is shipping me a new higo connector that I plan to solder on. They were going to send a whole harness, but I can't see rewiring the whole bike for a single connector. Support has been fantastic. I had a mishap with the charge port (dropped a multimeter probe, which landed in the charge port!), which they also sent parts for, even though it was my fault.

I have one of the early bikes, so mine is steel-gear. The noise doesn't bother me. You can definitely hear it, but I just don't notice it. It's definitely loud enough that it bothers some people though. There were a lot of folks who went for the PEEK gear as soon as it came out; even folks who said the noise didn't bother them. So I suspect it bothers folks enough that they'd do something about it. I like the idea of the extra durability since I went with the Ludicrous upgrade, and I hear more wind noise than I do motor.

The battery uses 18650 cells, but I'm not sure what you mean by the difference in 21700 cells. How a bike performs has more to do with the entire system than it does the type of cell used. They're Panasonic GAs.

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Re: Luna Cycle X-1 Enduro FS (Bafang M600 / Dengfu M09)

Post by Bigwheel » Mar 25 2020 7:48pm

Bradland, thanks for the info. I guess I haven't been following along with the gear thing. First the nylon gear was flimsy, then the steel gear was strong but loud and I am assuming the PEET gear is the $200 upgrade? I would suppose a good amount of that is labor if they have to do the work as well as the initial cost of the part? Gasp if that is just the part cost :shock:

Don't sell yourself short on riding sandy areas. I live on the coast and ride beach sand as well as riding on trails close by the beach that are sand based. Sand eats wh's readily I have found, as much as riding up a steep grade.

All I am basing my preference for the 2170 cells, I have a 10ah,18ah, 48v and a 15wh 52v, is that the 10ah replaced a GA cell 52v 10ah shark and it is hotter powerwise off the charger, I can charge it at up to 8A on my Grin charger, and on the same terrain, trails and output I am getting at least 5 miles more per charge. I was recently using it as a short range commuter and it lasted a month before it needed charging with lot's of stops and starts involved, no way my other battery would do that. No science involved just seat of the saddle comparison by one person and why I invested in the other 2. Actually wasn't that bad cost wise as they totaled $1400 for 2,124wh's but still about $.25 more than the stock Luna/Bafang one.

Thanks for the feedback!
Last edited by Bigwheel on Mar 25 2020 10:24pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Luna Cycle X-1 Enduro FS (Bafang M600 / Dengfu M09)

Post by bradland » Mar 25 2020 9:11pm

Sure thing. I see what you mean about the 21700 cells. The discharge tests do show what you’re talking about in some cases. I was looking at some 40T test results the other day. They hold up really well in the first third of the discharge curve, lacking the sharp drop off of some 18650 cells.

The gear thing is an interesting saga. The new PEET gear is some space-age shit, apparently. More durable than nylon, but quieter than steel. They tear the motor down to do the install, so you can bet the bulk of it is labor. I’ve seen the video and it’s a bit of a pain. Not difficult, just deep in the motor.

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Re: Luna Cycle X-1 Enduro FS (Bafang M600 / Dengfu M09)

Post by Bigwheel » Mar 25 2020 10:54pm

Not really sure why they are not being paid attention to. The gains aren't that much but they are gains and at new battery time I think it should be considered at least. I did a bunch of research and reaching out a few years ago and saw a bunch of test results. I am sure I could dig them up, from the computer not my mind, but I concluded they were worth the extra at the time.

Problems was an HL type case that fit them. Thought I was going to have get a wrapped one and carry it in a frame bag there for awhile.... Found a supplier in China that had access to one but there are at least two other 48v that will fit as my 18.5ah battery rides in one of those and my 10ah in yet another. All are corresponding sizes too.

There is no reason that a 2170 battery couldn't be made for the X1's existing enclosure though. That is how Specialized and others get a 500+ and a 700+ wh into the same frame. One is made of 3.5A 18650's and the other 5A 2170's. The CAN/BUS protocols however are a sticking point but Bafang will share them if you sign an NDA.

It reminds me that I did see at least one person on ES that had made his own battery but don't recall how he dealt with that.

I guess after all I am not going to go for one. Where I am there are more logging roads that are better to ride on my eX bikes out the door and not much for single track and what there is my eMetissé works well enough. Part of my original plan to get an FS, my bike is a mullet hardtail with a 90mm fork, is that I was going to go on an extended spring trip to the dez and wanted more suspension....

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Re: Luna Cycle X-1 Enduro FS (Bafang M600 / Dengfu M09)

Post by Joost5000 » Mar 25 2020 11:27pm

I’m sold on the revel propulsion setup; I don’t want 20lbs of motor and battery. I’m looking to put the 10lb setup on a full suspension bike. I’m hoping it will be a cheaper version of the levo sl. Granted I’ll have to pedal more, but it seems it will a lot livelier than my current mid fat with a bbshd/wolf pack.

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