Can the Cyclone 3000 Handle a 24s Pack ( 100 volts ) ?

I have about 5 rides now on the Cyclone 3k motor and it is time to get some Lipo's that are big enough to use the power of this motor, and that will give more speed.
I can go up some pretty steep hills using a 34 rear cog , pulling only up to 32 amps on a 14s pack mostly around 20 amps,
so I do not need high amps like 45-60 .
However
On the Flats with a small 5 amp , 20s pack ( 4x5s ) I am just not getting enough speed, and the big problem is I am not finding large 5s packs. Only high watt hour , 6s packs .
I tried 3 old/tired 6s packs to see the speed and I would need more voltage , min 72 volt ( 20s )
I have my eye on some 6s packs that are big enough to give me the minimum distance I want ,
However,
Will that voltage be too much for the Cyclone If I put 4 of them in series ? if so What would it do to the motor ?
I could charge to only 4.15 per cell but that would still make it nearly 100v ( 99.6 )

What Controller would you / did you use to go to higher voltage ?

Wouldn't it be more cost effective to just go to a higher gearing?

The Battery Packs I have now are all too small in capacity , ( 5 amp hour each )
I am using two sets of packs ( 4 7s , and 4 5s or 2 8s packs )
to get me the distance I want .
I want to start going up some long steep grades, and longer distances .
And
To drive the Gas/Petrol ICE Car and/or Motorcycle Less. The Car takes over $ 60 per tank full, I would rather pay for batteries instead .

Per your question, I might in the future use a 46 tooth chainring in the front instead of the 44 tooth, however I do have some steep hills around me , 10% 14 % even went up 16% for a short distance yesterday .
So I am not in a Hurry to change out the front chainring .

I don't mean to lose the low gears needed torque and for hill climbing.

but if increasing speed is a goal, adding higher gearing **before** increasing voltage, may not be needed at all.

Adding Ah capacity is another matter completely, gives greater range and ability to service higher loading at the given voltage.

Without maybe stressing the motor or the expense of buying a new controller.

Climbing steeper hills is all about amps not volts, not saying going higher volts can't help for that goal, but using gearing first will be much more cost-effective. As of course higher human power will make all the difference for increasing range.

Going to higher speeds, however you do it will increase the energy consumption per km, so be careful about that, will reduce range.

So yes pay for more batteries, but increasing Ah first, save increasing voltage for later, only if actually necessary.

If you want more speed get more gearing. But beware, you're trying to use a crappy motor to do something it's not designed for.

It will take 24S. I ran 30S. It's not worth it. You have more than enough power to blow the motor on 12S running only 2kw.

The cyclone 3k is an awful motor for anything but low power slow riding. It is somewhat misadvertised in this respect.

The russians did a test and about 18s is where the efficiency starts dropping. After 20s it starts getting massive so 72v is a practical limit. Anyway what are you doing pulling 20-30A? Just pararllel the packs. It is much simpler and can use any 36-72v controller that way.
If you want big power go 72v 50a, adjust your gearing, and be done with it.
You are trying very hard to reinvent the wheel.

flat tire said:

If you want more speed get more gearing. But beware, you're trying to use a crappy motor to do something it's not designed for.

It will take 24S. I ran 30S. It's not worth it. You have more than enough power to blow the motor on 12S running only 2kw.

The cyclone 3k is an awful motor for anything but low power slow riding. It is somewhat misadvertised in this respect.

Click to expand...

It is fine for peaks and in power, but it is terrible at shedding continuous heat, it can do only below 2kw output worth of heat.
A few of us on fb ES group will be doing a thermal epoxy fill, same as the cyc x1 has. From who has done it, it works wonders, pretty much the ferro fluid equivalent for mid drives.

After 18s it is loosing efficiency ? Did they post by how much ? and how much more efficiency lost at 20 s ?

Sorry to hear that one poster here thinks the Cyclone 3000 w is a " shitty motor " , because I bought if for a couple of reasons ...
1) the X1 Pro was and still is working out some bugs , and to this day still looks that way.

2) the X1 Pro was over budget , even this cyclone had to be paid off over a 3 month period .

3) someone who rode the BBSHD and the Cyclone 3000 w said he much preferred the Cyclone .



Tommm ( do you have a link to that testing or any on the cyclone 3000w ? )

I was trying to decide between buying 5s packs or 6s packs , I will now concentrate on 6s packs .

Regarding up-ing the amps , what I am doing only pulling 20-31 amps is when going up very steep hills, I must mention that I am using a something like 8 year old Lyen Controller that I bought locally with some other parts , it is a 9 fet controller , I opened it up and saw 100v for the caps , but do not know what the max amp it is rated at .
I am now thinking that it was made for only 30 amps max and that is why it will pull only up to 31 ? , even though I have set the cycle analyst to 35 amps.

Looks like I will need to get a higher amp controller ?

Awful motor for anything but low power ? It then is very much miss-advertised , I really was expecting to , someday in the future on a velo mobile , to get 3k from this motor or at least nearly that much,
only 2kw for such a heavy motor is very disappointing . Just the motor weighs 10 lbs , before the extra heavy BB and Crankset . ( BTW I have the 2019 GNG version of this motor )

If a thermal epoxy fill is done would that not make the motor non-serviceable ?

What about some kind of ventilation ? is there a material that would allow some heat out but no or little dust in ?

Tommm said:

The russians did a test and about 18s is where the efficiency starts dropping. After 20s it starts getting massive so 72v is a practical limit.

flat tire said:

The cyclone 3k is an awful motor for anything but low power slow riding. It is somewhat misadvertised in this respect.

Click to expand...

It is fine for peaks and in power, but it is terrible at shedding continuous heat, it can do only below 2kw output worth of heat.
A few of us on fb ES group will be doing a thermal epoxy fill, same as the cyc x1 has. From who has done it, it works wonders, pretty much the ferro fluid equivalent for mid drives.

Click to expand...

ScooterMan101 said:

Awful motor for anything but low power ? It then is very much miss-advertised , I really was expecting to , someday in the future on a velo mobile , to get 3k from this motor or at least nearly that much,
only 2kw for such a heavy motor is very disappointing . Just the motor weighs 10 lbs , before the extra heavy BB and Crankset . ( BTW I have the 2019 GNG version of this motor )

If a thermal epoxy fill is done would that not make the motor non-serviceable ?

What about some kind of ventilation ? is there a material that would allow some heat out but no or little dust in ?

Tommm said:

The russians did a test and about 18s is where the efficiency starts dropping. After 20s it starts getting massive so 72v is a practical limit.

flat tire said:

The cyclone 3k is an awful motor for anything but low power slow riding. It is somewhat misadvertised in this respect.

Click to expand...

It is fine for peaks and in power, but it is terrible at shedding continuous heat, it can do only below 2kw output worth of heat.
A few of us on fb ES group will be doing a thermal epoxy fill, same as the cyc x1 has. From who has done it, it works wonders, pretty much the ferro fluid equivalent for mid drives.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

They have well enough power but only usable for short burtsts.

The epoxy fill only touches the coil and hall, you might be able to do it without touching the hall if you remove it before hand. The rotor axle bearings etc stay servicable.

https://electrotransport.ru/ussr/index.php?topic=34238.0
Look here. 85v vs 63v better efficiency and less heat. Same power higher rpm. This motors likes higher rpm. Overheats at low rpm.
I can use my cyclone 4000w with 18s with internal cooling fan cca 5000w continuous and 10kw bursts. But only with high rpm. Im going to upgrade to 20s or 21s(controller 90v limit).

In a related question, if you are after acceleration rather than top speed, is it better to use a 14S with more parallel strings for higher current delivery and low sag; or 20s with fewer parallel strings for higher voltage?

Looking to maximise the off the line surge that makes evokes so much fun around town

Assuming the kv / winding and controller are tuned for it, higher amps is what gives you torque, whether for off the line, climbing hills or heavy loads.

Sacrificing amps to get higher volts is to increase top speed.

The cyclone 3000 is NOT a crappy motor. I have been using it for years and it has outperformed and outlasted all me and my friends electric motors! I have overvolted it from the very beginning without any problems. I use two series batteries overvolted to about 108 volts total. The motor puts out a beautiful whine and lots of power. Have taken trips up to 60 miles in length with a trailer attached and about 700 pounds of gear, bike, and me without a single problem. So, once again, there is a lot of misinformation on this site from people who don't have actual experience. And I did for a fraction of the cost of other motor kits. I spent about $1000 for bike, motor kit, and battery!!!