Cyclone 3000 vs CYC X1 Pro?

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
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robocam   10 kW

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Cyclone 3000 vs CYC X1 Pro?

Post by robocam » Nov 03 2019 5:18pm

I'd like to hear from those that own both drives. Aside from differences in mounting, how do they compare in actual use? Which one is more fun? Is the X1 significantly louder? Given the same power (i.e. same wattage), does one feel more powerful than the other? Do you have to do anything differently while using the X1 (such as gear choice and shifting)?

I have a Cyclone 3000 at 52V (that I love), so I'm wondering if I should pursue this as one of my next projects.
Last edited by robocam on Nov 08 2019 12:54pm, edited 2 times in total.

lukashanak   1 W

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Re: Cyclone 3000 vs CYC X1?

Post by lukashanak » Nov 05 2019 2:36am

I have at home cyc x1 pro and cyclone 4kw bikes. I prefer cyclone. With my mods 4kw cyclone is cca same weight like cyc and can take MUCH more power. And is much cheaper.
X1pro is louder than stoch cyclone with gearbox. Cyc has steel gears and almost twice rpm, cyclone has nylon gears.
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Cyclone 4kW mid drive + Nucular 12F + 18s lipo = 9kW of fun :twisted: :twisted:

SlowCo   100 kW

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Re: Cyclone 3000 vs CYC X1?

Post by SlowCo » Nov 05 2019 3:19am

lukashanak wrote:
Nov 05 2019 2:36am
I prefer cyclone. With my mods 4kw cyclone is cca same weight like cyc and can take MUCH more power. And is much cheaper.
X1pro is louder than stock cyclone with gearbox.
But as it looks you have removed the planetary gearbox from your Cyclone? And are using a gear reduction on the crank. I presume you can't keep up pedaling with the motor and only use the pedals at low speed? I'm curious how the bicycle chain can survive 9kW peaks :shock:

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robocam   10 kW

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Re: Cyclone 3000 vs CYC X1?

Post by robocam » Nov 05 2019 3:38am

Awesome! Could you tell me about the modifications you made to your Cyclone? Nylon gears? Does yours have any gears? I don’t see a gearbox. What controller are you using? What voltage? Thanks for replying. This is exactly the kind of information I’m looking for.
lukashanak wrote:
Nov 05 2019 2:36am
I have at home cyc x1 pro and cyclone 4kw bikes. I prefer cyclone. With my mods 4kw cyclone is cca same weight like cyc and can take MUCH more power. And is much cheaper.
X1pro is louder than stoch cyclone with gearbox. Cyc has steel gears and almost twice rpm, cyclone has nylon gears.

lukashanak   1 W

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Re: Cyclone 3000 vs CYC X1?

Post by lukashanak » Nov 05 2019 3:47am

SlowCo wrote:
Nov 05 2019 3:19am
lukashanak wrote:
Nov 05 2019 2:36am
I prefer cyclone. With my mods 4kw cyclone is cca same weight like cyc and can take MUCH more power. And is much cheaper.
X1pro is louder than stock cyclone with gearbox.
But as it looks you have removed the planetary gearbox from your Cyclone? And are using a gear reduction on the crank. I presume you can't keep up pedaling with the motor and only use the pedals at low speed? I'm curious how the bicycle chain can survive 9kW peaks :shock:
Just like you said. High chain speed = low force to chain. You cant pedal. But at this power level is your force to small to make any difference.... :-) My last chain lasts about 2000km. Using cheapest kmc 9speed chain. Now building new 22s8p battery pack, hope i will have about 12kw input power peak and higher rpm.
Cyclone 4kW mid drive + Nucular 12F + 18s lipo = 9kW of fun :twisted: :twisted:

lukashanak   1 W

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Re: Cyclone 3000 vs CYC X1?

Post by lukashanak » Nov 05 2019 4:18am

I started with standart cyclone kit 4000w.
After some time and one crash by stupid speed control throttle on standart cyclone controller I bought sabvoton 72150. From that time only torque throttle control. Only this is acceptable on higher power. More power so than comes problems with chain slipping. I made aditional mount for motor and change primary chain gears and freewheels to 22/30 freewheels from american white industries, no china. :-) Ultra heavy duty on cranks and green line on motor. Works wery good. Chain slipping gone.... Than failed nylon gears. I bought steel gears. That setup works well with 150A battery and 350A phase. Back chain ok for about 2000km.
When comes higher temps on summer I made cooling mod to motor. Drill holes and add fan on motor shaft. Add temp sensor. Motor temp guards controller and lower power on high motor temps.
I started build ebike for my brother. I bought GNG x1 pro and nucular 12F controller for him.
So now I have nucular 12F too, its best controller on market now. Super small, super powerfull 150A battery 250A phase and best configurable features. Wow, nice piece of russian tech. :-)
And when I saw 219h chainwheels on GNG kit I calculate, that it can replace 1/6 gearbox on my cyclone, so I ordered 72/11 chainwheel and chain and narrower bottom bracket from GNG.
By change controller and remove gearbox with freewheel I removed about 5kgs from bike weight. Better handling now, maybe more batteries in future... :-)
Thats my ebike history... :-)

Some photos:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/A4xLD8bL7atkThEo9


Now using 18s 18ah lipo (almost 2 years old. Not good now) and building 22s8p liion vtc5a pack.
Cyclone 4kW mid drive + Nucular 12F + 18s lipo = 9kW of fun :twisted: :twisted:

aCeMadMod   1 kW

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Re: Cyclone 3000 vs CYC X1?

Post by aCeMadMod » Nov 05 2019 4:59am

Hi when you copy me . I never show you .. Vent holes you cant see in motor for air to move out

The air has no were to go.. like you have .setup

Its not don"t it job

Good luck

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robocam   10 kW

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Re: Cyclone 3000 vs CYC X1?

Post by robocam » Nov 05 2019 5:12am

How did the sound change when you removed the gears and replaced it with the 219 chain? Thanks for the pictures!
lukashanak wrote:
Nov 05 2019 4:18am
...And when I saw 219h chainwheels on GNG kit I calculate, that it can replace 1/6 gearbox on my cyclone, so I ordered 72/11 chainwheel and chain and narrower bottom bracket from GNG.
By change controller and remove gearbox with freewheel I removed about 5kgs from bike weight. Better handling now, maybe more batteries in future... :-)
Thats my ebike history... :-)

Some photos:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/A4xLD8bL7atkThEo9


Now using 18s 18ah lipo (almost 2 years old. Not good now) and building 22s8p liion vtc5a pack.

lukashanak   1 W

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Re: Cyclone 3000 vs CYC X1?

Post by lukashanak » Nov 05 2019 5:12am

aCeMadMod wrote:
Nov 05 2019 4:59am
Hi when you copy me . I never show you .. Vent holes you cant see in motor for air to move out

The air has no were to go.. like you have .setup

Its not don"t it job

Good luck
Yes. Like I wrote here on forum, I inspired by you.
If you look better, there are 4 holes between motor body and front cover on oposite side of intake. I was using gearbox when made it.Without gearbox will be better make holes to front cover. Im not idiot to make air intake and no output....
Cyclone 4kW mid drive + Nucular 12F + 18s lipo = 9kW of fun :twisted: :twisted:

lukashanak   1 W

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Re: Cyclone 3000 vs CYC X1?

Post by lukashanak » Nov 05 2019 5:26am

robocam wrote:
Nov 05 2019 5:12am
How did the sound change when you removed the gears and replaced it with the 219 chain? Thanks for the pictures!
Its hard to tell. Its louder than with nylon gears gearbox and quieter than steel gears gearbox. :-) But different kind of sound. I hear only front chain. I think most of sound makes small 11t motor sprocket. But I like this sound and people hear me when I ride... :-)
Cyclone 4kW mid drive + Nucular 12F + 18s lipo = 9kW of fun :twisted: :twisted:

aCeMadMod   1 kW

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Re: Cyclone 3000 vs CYC X1?

Post by aCeMadMod » Nov 05 2019 5:31am

Hi good you drill some holes . Only 4 ?
I have 16holes and way less amps

Becafe your amps are way hight....

Nice work.

Good luck

lukashanak   1 W

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Re: Cyclone 3000 vs CYC X1?

Post by lukashanak » Nov 05 2019 6:39am

aCeMadMod wrote:
Nov 05 2019 5:31am
Hi good you drill some holes . Only 4 ?
I have 16holes and way less amps

Becafe your amps are way hight....

Nice work.

Good luck
Drill is not right word...:-) I can go about 5kW continuous power in high rpm. I think it can take more with 22s battery with more rpm.
Screenshot_20191105-122558.jpg
Screenshot_20191105-122558.jpg (301.2 KiB) Viewed 1057 times
Cyclone 4kW mid drive + Nucular 12F + 18s lipo = 9kW of fun :twisted: :twisted:

SlowCo   100 kW

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Re: Cyclone 3000 vs CYC X1?

Post by SlowCo » Nov 05 2019 7:07am

Great work!
Thanks for sharing.

Grantmac   10 kW

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Re: Cyclone 3000 vs CYC X1?

Post by Grantmac » Nov 05 2019 12:02pm

You're claiming the bare 4kw motor weighs less than the CYC with gearbox?
I have the 3kw and even running 2.2kw it gets very hot on any real climbs in the summer. Not sure how you are pumping 4x the power through a motor barely 30% larger.

Also last I checked the Nucular doesn't have enough ERPM capacity to run the CYC correctly. Which is a shame since they really are brilliant controllers, especially the charging capabilities.

lukashanak   1 W

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Re: Cyclone 3000 vs CYC X1?

Post by lukashanak » Nov 05 2019 3:44pm

Grantmac wrote:
Nov 05 2019 12:02pm
You're claiming the bare 4kw motor weighs less than the CYC with gearbox?
I have the 3kw and even running 2.2kw it gets very hot on any real climbs in the summer. Not sure how you are pumping 4x the power through a motor barely 30% larger.

Also last I checked the Nucular doesn't have enough ERPM capacity to run the CYC correctly. Which is a shame since they really are brilliant controllers, especially the charging capabilities.
Nucular can do 100kERPM. Cyc has 7 pole pairs so 14kRPM limit. I have this set at home on my brothers bike. 18s LIPO about 9k max rpm what I remember. 3,5kW max power now. With more power chain slips. But for my brother is it more than he wants.... :-)

And my cyclone...I have cooling fan on shaft and thermal probe on windings. When was about 25 degree C outside I tested I can go about 5kW continuous (temp stop rising on cca 80 degree C) with high RPM. But with low rpm I it overheats on 1kW power.

And weight I compared only in hand. :-) But cca same. And dont want to remove my motor from bike to check it. But my complete gearbox with steel planetary gears and freewheel and grease packed in stretch film is 1,977kg and on cyclone website complete 4kw is 5kg.
Cyclone 4kW mid drive + Nucular 12F + 18s lipo = 9kW of fun :twisted: :twisted:

flat tire   1 MW

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Re: Cyclone 3000 vs CYC X1?

Post by flat tire » Nov 05 2019 4:00pm

No way he's doing 5kw continuous on that unless he lives in antarctica.

Andrewol   10 W

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Re: Cyclone 3000 vs CYC X1?

Post by Andrewol » Nov 06 2019 3:56am

lukashanak wrote:
Nov 05 2019 4:18am
Now using 18s 18ah lipo (almost 2 years old. Not good now) and building 22s8p liion vtc5a pack.
What's your battery layout for 22S in such triangular shape?
Nucular doesn't work well with RC motors like X1 Pro, as I heard. It needs special firmware which is still not available.

lukashanak   1 W

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Re: Cyclone 3000 vs CYC X1?

Post by lukashanak » Nov 06 2019 5:30am

Andrewol wrote:
Nov 06 2019 3:56am

What's your battery layout for 22S in such triangular shape?
Nucular doesn't work well with RC motors like X1 Pro, as I heard. It needs special firmware which is still not available.
I read it, but in actual power level works well. Needs change gearings to avoid chain slipping with bigger power. But brother dont ride to often and with his actual skills he dont need more power, so Im not motivated to make progress with his bike... :-)

Yes, triangular shape. Now making groups layout. Not sure between 22s or 21s 8p both. Theres not to much space.... Im not using bms, only active 1A ballancer and charging by nucular.
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IMG_20191103_211249-1000x750.jpg (253.6 KiB) Viewed 937 times
Cyclone 4kW mid drive + Nucular 12F + 18s lipo = 9kW of fun :twisted: :twisted:

Andrewol   10 W

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Re: Cyclone 3000 vs CYC X1?

Post by Andrewol » Nov 06 2019 6:18am

If you are without BMS, do you limit the current in case of short with industrial circuit braker? How this 1A active ballancer looks like?
This is my layout choice for your consideration.
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lukashanak   1 W

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Re: Cyclone 3000 vs CYC X1?

Post by lukashanak » Nov 06 2019 8:14am

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.aliexpre ... 65819.html
With this I can charge and balance my 18ah 18s lipo pack in 1 hour. And 1800w Eaton Apr48-3g. Its light and small and used on Ali is less than 50 Usd. And I can take it in my backpack.... :-) And 300A fuse.Circuit breaker is to large and heavy.
Bat_22s.jpg
Bat_22s.jpg (51.31 KiB) Viewed 917 times
Cyclone 4kW mid drive + Nucular 12F + 18s lipo = 9kW of fun :twisted: :twisted:

Andrewol   10 W

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Re: Cyclone 3000 vs CYC X1?

Post by Andrewol » Nov 06 2019 9:51am

Never saw such balancer. It's like active BMS, despite all BMSs available are passive discharge balancing type.
Circuit brackers can be small enough. https://electricscooterparts.com/circuitbreakers.html https://www.worldelectricsupply.com/sho ... eaker-4102

john61ct   10 MW

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Re: Cyclone 3000 vs CYC X1?

Post by john61ct » Nov 06 2019 10:19am


Andrewol wrote:Never saw such balancer.
There are literally hundreds of different ones, aka "non-protective BMS" or "equalizers".

On most the actual balance current varies with the V delta between cells.

What I call "active" means full current (ideally adjustable) is maintained even as cell voltage converge, right up to 10mV or whatever your target delta is, ideally also adjustable.


Andrewol   10 W

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Re: Cyclone 3000 vs CYC X1?

Post by Andrewol » Nov 06 2019 10:45am

I found only a few types of active equalizers.

lukashanak   1 W

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Re: Cyclone 3000 vs CYC X1?

Post by lukashanak » Nov 06 2019 10:55am

This one pumps energy from actual highest voltage cell to lowest voltage cell. 1A (or what you set) no matter what voltage difference is. Delta is adjustable too. I connect it only when charging. Setup and monitoring by bluetooth in phone.
Cyclone 4kW mid drive + Nucular 12F + 18s lipo = 9kW of fun :twisted: :twisted:

lukashanak   1 W

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Re: Cyclone 3000 vs CYC X1?

Post by lukashanak » Nov 06 2019 10:59am

Andrewol wrote:
Nov 06 2019 9:51am
Never saw such balancer. It's like active BMS, despite all BMSs available are passive discharge balancing type.
Circuit brackers can be small enough. https://electricscooterparts.com/circuitbreakers.html https://www.worldelectricsupply.com/sho ... eaker-4102
Forr me is small this: :-)
ip003650.jpg
ip003650.jpg (4.97 KiB) Viewed 901 times
Cyclone 4kW mid drive + Nucular 12F + 18s lipo = 9kW of fun :twisted: :twisted:

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