Frey CC ordered!

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eggbert   1 mW

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Frey CC ordered!

Post by eggbert » Nov 24 2019 10:30pm

I really haven't seen much spoken about the Frey CC. Micah and a couple of others have briefly discussed the bike but I don't think it has gotten as much attention as other bikes Frey are selling as it has a very different market than the bikes they typically sell (although I bet a lot are used more for commuting than the trails!).
I was looking at getting a HT model for my daily commute (18ish km each (11 miles)), but found a little more money in the kitty and decided to go for the CC instead.
I can't find any reviews online from someone who had bought the bike, so I presume I must be one of the first buyers. Hopefully they put a lot of care and attention into it's build if that's the case.
As yet I've had no build updates, so have no photos I can show, but will update as and when they start trickling in.
Luckily where I live there are extensive bike tracks (co -use with pedestrians in many cases), so hopefully not much chance of interactions with other vehicles. Only problem I see is that it's coming up to monsoonal season soon.

Tom   1 kW

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Re: Frey CC ordered!

Post by Tom » Nov 25 2019 2:30am

Congrats! When do you expect delivery? What color did you go with and did you change anything from the standard config?

eggbert   1 mW

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Re: Frey CC ordered!

Post by eggbert » Nov 25 2019 4:45am

I pretty much went with the standard setup in as close to British racing green as I could find but added lights, rack, mudguards, gear shift sensor and a spare charger.
The bike was already at the outer limit of what I could justify spending and I couldn't really think of any additions /upgrades to make.

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brake034   10 W

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Re: Frey CC ordered!

Post by brake034 » Nov 25 2019 7:52am

Congratulations Eggbert, look forward to your posts on the Frey CC experience :thumb:
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SlowCo   1 MW

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Re: Frey CC ordered!

Post by SlowCo » Nov 25 2019 3:51pm

http://www.frey.bike/full-suspension-eMTB/Frey-CC.htm

Nice!
Please update this thread with more news and photo's when you have it!

Tom   1 kW

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Re: Frey CC ordered!

Post by Tom » Dec 25 2019 4:10am

Elektrek just put up a review. Was hoping for a more in-depth review but better than nothing as there's not much out there.

https://electrek.co/2019/12/24/review-1 ... uter-bike/

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brake034   10 W

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Re: Frey CC ordered!

Post by brake034 » Dec 25 2019 8:05pm

Tom, there is not much out there about the Frey CC is because it's a brand new design that was shown to the "public" just a few months ago.

The "public" at that Frey event was Micah, 2 westerners who ride Frey's, their Swiss distributor and myself.

That's why so far only Micah has published about the CC, the Sea Otter Classic will be the event where more riders can test the Frey CC and the other models.

If you have any specific questions about the CC, send me a PM or send Ivy an email.
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Tom   1 kW

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Re: Frey CC ordered!

Post by Tom » Dec 26 2019 2:58am

Right, I was hoping for more info from those that had a chance to ride it. Would be nice to know how well the suspension woks with rear rack attached to the swing arm, particularly with weight on the rack. Also how did the "universal size" of the CC suit each of you?

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brake034   10 W

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Re: Frey CC ordered!

Post by brake034 » Dec 26 2019 7:09am

There were 2 CC's available at the event, the cream colored one without a rack and the red one with a rack.
No one put anything on the red CC's luggage rack, the test environment and settings were not really requiring it.

But as a commuter, what will you put on that rack?
A few shopping bags, let's say 5-10 kilo or so? A laptop bag and lunch going to the office?

So for a commuter bike adding 5-10 kilo on the rear rack, compared to the potential weight of a 60 to 100 kilo rider, what's the point? And if this is a real problem for you, you can always opt for the Frey hardtail model (the HT) with the same rack and same motor but lower in price without the rear shock.

With regards to universal size, if you have an large body frame, I suggest you send Frey some of your measurements and ask them to offer components to suit your body size?!
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Tom   1 kW

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Re: Frey CC ordered!

Post by Tom » Dec 26 2019 3:11pm

I think it's a valid concern given the CC it's being marketed as a commuter. I'm not planning to carry heavier loads on the rack but others might be. 10kg of unsprung weight may be enough to handicap the rear suspension from working properly. Here's just one discussion about the potential issue:

https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.p ... 31#p467532

I emailed Ivy and her response was that it's about having a rear rack option if you want it vs. not having a rear rack. Sounds like you can lock the rear shock for heavier loads if it's an issue.

formula101   1 kW

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Re: Frey CC ordered!

Post by formula101 » Dec 26 2019 4:33pm

I don't know how much of a difference adding 10 to 20 lbs of groceries will make in suspension settings. The bike will ride a little softer with extra weight. Most shocks have a lockout or climb switch as well. Much ado about nothing.

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Re: Frey CC ordered!

Post by Tom » Dec 26 2019 10:55pm

You're right, we shouldn't worry about it. Never mind the discussions about why rear racks don't work well on full suspension bikes or the laws of physics. I'm sure it will be fine and nobody is going to be disappointed. :wink:

formula101   1 kW

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Re: Frey CC ordered!

Post by formula101 » Dec 26 2019 11:39pm

Tom wrote:
Dec 26 2019 10:55pm
You're right, we shouldn't worry about it. Never mind the discussions about why rear racks don't work well on full suspension bikes or the laws of physics. I'm sure it will be fine and nobody is going to be disappointed. :wink:
Go ahead and discuss how the "laws of physics" prevent 20 lbs of groceries being carried on a bike.

So here's the "explanation" of why a bike with suspension can't carry groceries:

"The suspension is fouled up by 10kgs or so of stuff hanging onto the suspension arm."

That's right, it's because the "laws of physics" say that "The suspension is fouled up by 10kgs or so of stuff."

What a brilliant analysis. All from a poster who called himself "hamster" posting in 2011. :lol:

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Re: Frey CC ordered!

Post by Sinbord1981 » Dec 27 2019 2:08am

Hi Tom. I rode the CC in China both in the factory on the day it was launched and at Brave Peak Bike Park plus out on the roads. It’s a really capable commuter and very smooth with the road tyres on it. It’s got all the power needed with the Bafang Ultra motor. The rear suspension works very nicely. It has the Rochshox Monarch 165*38mm with 110mm of travel almost hidden away so you can hardly see it but it is more than sufficient for a ‘Cross Country’ commuter bike. It is an air shock, so you can connect a pump and add more air in to it to set the bike up correctly for your weight, including any load that you carry on the rack. You can also adjust the rebound on the shock with a thumb wheel so it can be tailored to your needs. I think it also has the two stage compression lever, like mine on my AM1000, so you can have it open or locked so the rear is then effectively solid with little to no suspension movement.

I’ve ridden my AM1000 to work on a few occasions with a LOT of weight in a rucksack on my back - laptop, all accessories, other work materials, change of clothes, lunch etc. I did this without changing any of the rear suspension settings from what I normally have it set on. It copes very well and I think the CC with that same weight on the rear rack would work as a great commuter bike. You’d also have a lot of flexibility and options to tweak the rear shock to set it up perfectly and with the road tyres on it, it will be a lot smoother, quieter and faster.

I hope that helps answer some of your concerns but please shout if there’s anything else I can advise on.

Tom   1 kW

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Re: Frey CC ordered!

Post by Tom » Dec 27 2019 3:10am

I'm not sure if either of you understand the issue. I posted a link to a discussion above explaining it but feel free to refer to the Wikipedia link below. Weight that is attached to the rear swing arm is going to affect the mechanics of the rear suspension very differently than the weight attached to the suspended frame such as rider and backpack weight. Those are the laws of physics that I was referring to. Call it something else if you prefer.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsprung_mass

Edit: Same principle that Court illustraes and this video:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ohtXHWDOkEU

formula101   1 kW

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Re: Frey CC ordered!

Post by formula101 » Dec 27 2019 3:53am

Tom wrote:
Dec 27 2019 3:10am
I'm not sure if either of you understand the issue. I posted a link to a discussion above explaining it but feel free to refer to the Wikipedia link below. Weight that is attached to the rear swing arm is going to affect the mechanics of the rear suspension very differently than the weight attached to the suspended frame such as rider and backpack weight. Those are the laws of physics that I was referring to. Call it something else if you prefer.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsprung_mass

Edit: Same principle that Court illustraes and this video:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ohtXHWDOkEU
That's a terrible explanation by court. He uses the term rebound when he should be using the term compression. Fail.

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Re: Frey CC ordered!

Post by Sinbord1981 » Dec 27 2019 10:36am

Tom wrote:
Dec 27 2019 3:10am
I'm not sure if either of you understand the issue. I posted a link to a discussion above explaining it but feel free to refer to the Wikipedia link below. Weight that is attached to the rear swing arm is going to affect the mechanics of the rear suspension very differently than the weight attached to the suspended frame such as rider and backpack weight. Those are the laws of physics that I was referring to. Call it something else if you prefer.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsprung_mass

Edit: Same principle that Court illustraes and this video:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ohtXHWDOkEU
Sorry Tom! I can only appologise for the mistake in my response. You're completely right. The rack is unsprung so it is different to having weight in a ruck sack on your back. You could look at all the math behind it but in my opinion it'll make next to no difference at all then. Ideally you want to set sag, compression, rebound etc all based on the rider (and sprung) weight. By way of example, I had my motorbike set up for track days and when the tuning guy was fettling around with the suspension on my bike (S1000RR) he wanted me with my leathers on, helmet, gloves etc as I needed to be exactly as I would be when I'm riding the bike from a weight perspective. With weight on the rear rack on the CC, I can honestly say it will behave perfectly. It's unsprung so you won't have to change the suspension on the CC at all and the ride will be even more compliant. The only thing to really check will be the air pressure in the rear tyre. We did mess about in China with someone sat on the back of the CC, on the rack. It rode perfectly. The CC is the ideal commuter and you can place a ton of weight on the rack with it having no detrimental effect whatsoever to the handling. Cheers.

formula101   1 kW

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Re: Frey CC ordered!

Post by formula101 » Dec 27 2019 2:58pm

It matters if you want to be obsessive about it and split hairs all day long. The ride will be marginally softer and you will be marginally slower. How fast do you want to be? You've already got 1,500 watts and 160 nm of torque on hand. If you don't think that's enough power to handle 10 kgs of groceries, look into a top fuel dragster.

Tom   1 kW

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Re: Frey CC ordered!

Post by Tom » Dec 27 2019 4:10pm

I'm not being obsessive about it. I simply asked a question. Since this is a thread about the Frey CC I thought it would be good to have a genuine discussion about it. Thanks Sinbord1981 for chiming in with a relevant data point.

formula101   1 kW

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Re: Frey CC ordered!

Post by formula101 » Dec 27 2019 7:06pm

Tom wrote:
Dec 27 2019 4:10pm
I'm not being obsessive about it. I simply asked a question. Since this is a thread about the Frey CC I thought it would be good to have a genuine discussion about it. Thanks Sinbord1981 for chiming in with a relevant data point.
The point is, you were citing people who were completely clueless about the subject. Court, who doesn't understand the difference between compression and rebound, and a facts-challenged anon troll who called himself "hamster" posting a decade ago.

I tried to save you the embarrassment but you insisted on plowing forward. It's better to ask when you don't know rather than to pretend as if you know what you're talking about.

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Re: Frey CC ordered!

Post by Tom » Dec 28 2019 6:12am

You make some very compelling arguments that unsprung mass doesn't matter. And excellent point about usernames on the internet - anyone that uses the name hamster is clearly wrong! Looking forward to eggbert getting his bike and hearing more user feedback.

SlowCo   1 MW

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Re: Frey CC ordered!

Post by SlowCo » Dec 28 2019 7:24am

Tom wrote:
Dec 28 2019 6:12am
Bla, bla, bla, unsprung mass, bla, bla, bla...
Yes you are very clever that you discovered that extra unsprung mass will effect the handling of a vehicle. So don't order a Frey CC or don't order the bike rack for the swing arm and carry your shit in a back pack. If you're such a downhill champion and vehicle dynamics expert you will probably have a much better bike or solution already. Congratulations.... :roll:

Tom   1 kW

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Re: Frey CC ordered!

Post by Tom » Dec 28 2019 4:07pm

I'm actually planning to order a CC. Don't know why people get so offended about discussing how well the rear rack might work in conjunction with the suspension. I am guessing it kind of defeats the purpose but have no first-hand experience. I shall not question the authority of the experts here further.

formula101   1 kW

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Re: Frey CC ordered!

Post by formula101 » Dec 28 2019 6:33pm

The worst that can happen is that you lose $20 if the rack doesn't work out for you. You can also use a trailer or a large backpack for that matter or a beam rack.

I've carried 10+ kgs on the handlebars, it didn't tax the suspension in the slightest. You are overthinking this.

Tom   1 kW

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Re: Frey CC ordered!

Post by Tom » Dec 28 2019 8:26pm

Weight on the handlebars would be sprung weight so similar to rider or backpack weight.
Last edited by Tom on Feb 07 2020 3:40pm, edited 1 time in total.

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