Custom frame for the Cyclone Coaxial motor

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Chambers   100 W

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Re: Custom frame for Cyclone Coaxial

Post by Chambers » Jul 28 2020 1:55am

minimum wrote:
Jul 27 2020 7:25am
Chambers wrote:
Jul 27 2020 5:03am
Did you happen to take any pics of the process?
Unfortunately not, was busy trying to contain the mess.
Fair enough, Thanks for the info

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Re: Custom frame for Cyclone Coaxial

Post by Chambers » Jul 28 2020 1:57am

amberwolf wrote:
Jul 27 2020 8:28am
A few people here have potted the stators of various motors. Justin's thread here
viewtopic.php?t=48753
has some testing on that.
I recall reading that thread a few years ago - Will have another scan for anything cyclone/in-runner specific, Thanks

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Re: Custom frame for Cyclone Coaxial

Post by Chambers » Jul 28 2020 2:03am

Tommm wrote:
Jul 27 2020 8:37am
I want to do it too. Next guy doing it please do it on video, explained for dummies.
I am pretty convinced that it's a good idea so if no one else posts a vid before I get to it I will. I don't think it will be too difficult but you never know.

I will most likely use epoxy, The only thing I see as being a potential problem in the casting process is bleeds/leaks into the air gap which might be difficult to post process.

I want to have my Nuc' 12f on hand first though because I ordered a temp sensor with it that I want to install pre-potting.
I suppose I could just order another temp sensor though.

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Re: Custom frame for Cyclone Coaxial

Post by Skaiwerd » Jul 28 2020 3:08pm

Chambers

I’m reluctant to check on my 12f from necular. Seems like it’s always wait. All I want is auto learn and adjustable regen brakes. No one in the industry reading what people want to compete with necular? I’ll give them my business, yes virus I know, but this waiting makes is almost not worth it. Anyone else except for power velocity, company seems iffy, or sabaton etc that I may never get working correctly? I’m sure nuclear is awesome but I may never get my hands on one.

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Chambers   100 W

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Re: Custom frame for Cyclone Coaxial

Post by Chambers » Jul 28 2020 9:08pm

Skaiwerd wrote:
Jul 28 2020 3:08pm
Chambers

I’m reluctant to check on my 12f from necular. Seems like it’s always wait. All I want is auto learn and adjustable regen brakes. No one in the industry reading what people want to compete with necular? I’ll give them my business, yes virus I know, but this waiting makes is almost not worth it. Anyone else except for power velocity, company seems iffy, or sabaton etc that I may never get working correctly? I’m sure nuclear is awesome but I may never get my hands on one.
yeah I hear ya,
For me it's the form factor, cooler quieter running and easy set up that's the draw card for the Nuc'.
But at some point soon I may have to get something else just to move the project forward... But I don't know what - Of course I could use the standard yuyang king (spelling?) that cyclone use but I want more tuning options and a good display. I read somewhere someone was having issues with the PV controller and cyclone motor.

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Chambers   100 W

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Re: Custom frame for Cyclone Coaxial

Post by Chambers » Jul 28 2020 9:35pm

I guess my point is there's a level of trust and support with the Nucular that other controllers don't seem to have - I also like their charging solution....

But if anyone knows of some other controllers that will work with similar levels of functionality please let us all know.... One day I would like to offer complete ebikes or kits for sale (whether it's this project remains to be seen) and it will be pretty hard to use the Nuc' if they still have supply issues. Heres hoping they get it sorted!

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Re: Custom frame for Cyclone Coaxial

Post by minimum » Jul 28 2020 11:56pm

Chambers wrote:
Jul 28 2020 9:08pm
I read somewhere someone was having issues with the PV controller and cyclone motor.
That was me before I got my nucular.
PV works only on trap. mode. IMHO too pricey to get it only because of nice display and some adjustability.

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Re: Custom frame for Cyclone Coaxial

Post by Skaiwerd » Jul 30 2020 7:21am

This looks like a good store from AliExpress. I know to look for power, ground and signal for adjustable regeneration braking. Some of these controllers you can get the bluetooth dongle and a display. Just think they are underrated as volts times amps is 3-4 times what the rating really is like how qs motors are rated.
Anyone with a entrepreneur sprit will know a steel frame, rigid ok, 1 1/2” fork compatibility, to match this motor will be a good seller. Or the start of a nice custom ebike. I’m talkin dual chain version here.

I’m thinking nuc may be making their oem customer(s) the priority now as the virus slowdown has them in catch up mode and they probably want to preserve that stream of bulk orders. Meaning they need a USA distributor to ensure some confidence in them.
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Re: Custom frame for Cyclone Coaxial

Post by Tommm » Jul 30 2020 8:30am

I am using the bac2000 on mine. It is quite happy.
Also I noticed there is less heat vs the square wave yuyangking when lugging it at low power levels, so PAS at very low power levels could be doable. I think it might be due to the wave form being able to deal with the motor being between two positions for a longer time.
Only issue is the hall sensors aren't working, I read the kellys only work when powering the halls from 12v instead of 5v, the asi does have a 12v wire but I personally can't be bothered for the moment.

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Chambers   100 W

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Re: Custom frame for Cyclone Coaxial

Post by Chambers » Jul 31 2020 6:43am

Skaiwerd wrote:
Jul 30 2020 7:21am
This looks like a good store from AliExpress. I know to look for power, ground and signal for adjustable regeneration braking. Some of these controllers you can get the bluetooth dongle and a display. Just think they are underrated as volts times amps is 3-4 times what the rating really is like how qs motors are rated.
Anyone with a entrepreneur sprit will know a steel frame, rigid ok, 1 1/2” fork compatibility, to match this motor will be a good seller. Or the start of a nice custom ebike. I’m talkin dual chain version here.

I’m thinking nuc may be making their oem customer(s) the priority now as the virus slowdown has them in catch up mode and they probably want to preserve that stream of bulk orders. Meaning they need a USA distributor to ensure some confidence in them.
Does anyone know offhand what the model of yuang king controller is that is normally paired with the coaxial?
Tommm wrote:
Jul 30 2020 8:30am
I am using the bac2000 on mine. It is quite happy.
Also I noticed there is less heat vs the square wave yuyangking when lugging it at low power levels, so PAS at very low power levels could be doable. I think it might be due to the wave form being able to deal with the motor being between two positions for a longer time.
Only issue is the hall sensors aren't working, I read the kellys only work when powering the halls from 12v instead of 5v, the asi does have a 12v wire but I personally can't be bothered for the moment.
I remember reading in one of the LR Bigblock threads that the ASI and Kelly KBS controllers had trouble finding the hall signals, Pretty sure someone posted a fix too? Could be wrong though :lol:

ASI's seem to be pretty nice but for the money personally I want something that will work out of the box with minimal fiddling -

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Chambers   100 W

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Re: Custom frame for Cyclone Coaxial

Post by Chambers » Aug 03 2020 6:32am

Tommm wrote:
Jul 30 2020 8:30am
I am using the bac2000 on mine. It is quite happy.
Also I noticed there is less heat vs the square wave yuyangking when lugging it at low power levels, so PAS at very low power levels could be doable. I think it might be due to the wave form being able to deal with the motor being between two positions for a longer time.
Only issue is the hall sensors aren't working, I read the kellys only work when powering the halls from 12v instead of 5v, the asi does have a 12v wire but I personally can't be bothered for the moment.
Do you have any pics of your ASI setup Tommm?

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Re: Custom frame for Cyclone Coaxial

Post by Tommm » Aug 03 2020 8:34am

Chambers wrote:
Aug 03 2020 6:32am
Tommm wrote:
Jul 30 2020 8:30am
I am using the bac2000 on mine. It is quite happy.
Also I noticed there is less heat vs the square wave yuyangking when lugging it at low power levels, so PAS at very low power levels could be doable. I think it might be due to the wave form being able to deal with the motor being between two positions for a longer time.
Only issue is the hall sensors aren't working, I read the kellys only work when powering the halls from 12v instead of 5v, the asi does have a 12v wire but I personally can't be bothered for the moment.
Do you have any pics of your ASI setup Tommm?
You mean software?

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Chambers   100 W

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Re: Custom frame for Cyclone Coaxial

Post by Chambers » Aug 03 2020 4:54pm

I meant on your bike - just curious how it looks because they are an odd shape

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Re: Custom frame for Cyclone Coaxial

Post by Tommm » Aug 03 2020 6:11pm

Chambers wrote:
Aug 03 2020 4:54pm
I meant on your bike - just curious how it looks because they are an odd shape
https://ibb.co/album/VwPWg2

It is right next to motor. Huge blue transparent speaker cables connecting each way. It is mounted with cable ties in a way it is flexible but self correcting. A blow to any corner or side will cause the controller to pivot a little in its direction, then pull back to position. That way nothing is breaking or going loose after. The controller isn't significantly wider than the battery box, 105 vs ~115, and is wrapped the same way with cf vinyl.

I had my old big controller mounted in the rear between wheel and seat tube. Now it is home to a bottle cage. For water or tools. Pic taken at full compression.

Got around to put the mini heatsinks all over the motor. They have thermal adhesive pads but not meant for outdoor use. Some zipties spliced in, they are conducting heat and motor is happier.

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Chambers   100 W

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Re: Custom frame for Cyclone Coaxial

Post by Chambers » Aug 04 2020 6:52am

Tommm wrote:
Aug 03 2020 6:11pm
Chambers wrote:
Aug 03 2020 4:54pm
I meant on your bike - just curious how it looks because they are an odd shape
https://ibb.co/album/VwPWg2

It is right next to motor. Huge blue transparent speaker cables connecting each way. It is mounted with cable ties in a way it is flexible but self correcting. A blow to any corner or side will cause the controller to pivot a little in its direction, then pull back to position. That way nothing is breaking or going loose after. The controller isn't significantly wider than the battery box, 105 vs ~115, and is wrapped the same way with cf vinyl.

I had my old big controller mounted in the rear between wheel and seat tube. Now it is home to a bottle cage. For water or tools. Pic taken at full compression.

Got around to put the mini heatsinks all over the motor. They have thermal adhesive pads but not meant for outdoor use. Some zipties spliced in, they are conducting heat and motor is happier.
Thanks for the pics - it's always interesting to see how different people attack problems, That actually blends in pretty well.
Did you do the heat-sinks at the same time as the controller swap? Would be interesting to see what difference one or the other separately vs both together makes to the temps.

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Re: Custom frame for Cyclone Coaxial

Post by Tommm » Aug 04 2020 7:13am

Chambers wrote:
Aug 04 2020 6:52am


Thanks for the pics - it's always interesting to see how different people attack problems, That actually blends in pretty well.
Did you do the heat-sinks at the same time as the controller swap? Would be interesting to see what difference one or the other separately vs both together makes to the temps.
So far with the sinks it hasn't even gotten warm and we were doing big climbs. I think the asi only runs the motor cooler at low rpm, about 20% of max. There it is noticeable. Otherwise only quieter.
The best part of this controller is the battery power foldback, under a custom limit, the lower your battery voltage is the more it will throttle power. So it is possible run high watts without fear of something getting tripped to lvc.

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Re: Custom frame for Cyclone Coaxial

Post by Chambers » Aug 07 2020 6:00am

Any battery configuration gurus watching?

I'm trying to figure out the best way to group the cells +/- 20s 8p
cyclone coaxial battery.JPG
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Re: Custom frame for Cyclone Coaxial

Post by Tommm » Aug 07 2020 6:12am

Chambers wrote:
Aug 07 2020 6:00am
Any battery configuration gurus watching?

I'm trying to figure out the best way to group the cells +/- 20s 8p cyclone coaxial battery.JPG
https://m.facebook.com/groups/1747572265563427

Highly recommended do a salty water immersion test after you rough up the surface of a bit of your nickel. Even legit sellers get tricked sometimes.

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Chambers   100 W

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Re: Custom frame for Cyclone Coaxial

Post by Chambers » Aug 09 2020 7:37am

I had an idea for the battery connections - Copper carries current better than Nickel and I don't like the idea of multiple layers of spot welds (I still may end up doing it though :lol: )

My idea is to create a Copper-Nickel combined sheet for the series connections as below - Obviously the sheets would have to be made to shape this is just the concept...
folded nickel and stamped copper.JPG
folded nickel and stamped copper.JPG (59.58 KiB) Viewed 1714 times
copper assy 2.JPG
copper assy 2.JPG (46.75 KiB) Viewed 1714 times

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Re: Custom frame for Cyclone Coaxial

Post by Tommm » Aug 09 2020 9:51am

Chambers wrote:
Aug 09 2020 7:37am
I had an idea for the battery connections - Copper carries current better than Nickel and I don't like the idea of multiple layers of spot welds (I still may end up doing it though :lol: )

My idea is to create a Copper-Nickel combined sheet for the series connections as below - Obviously the sheets would have to be made to shape this is just the concept...

folded nickel and stamped copper.JPGcopper assy 2.JPG
Make sure it is compatible with whatever cell holders you plan on using, a lot of them poke out up in the 4 corners of each cell. Also the cell insulator stickers, possibly something else too, your cells might rub against the cutout of the copper holes.

How do you plan on connecting the two sheets? If it is spot weld, you are still doing multiple layers, just with 3 different materials.

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Chambers   100 W

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Re: Custom frame for Cyclone Coaxial

Post by Chambers » Aug 09 2020 5:34pm

Tommm wrote:
Aug 09 2020 9:51am
Chambers wrote:
Aug 09 2020 7:37am
I had an idea for the battery connections - Copper carries current better than Nickel and I don't like the idea of multiple layers of spot welds (I still may end up doing it though :lol: )

My idea is to create a Copper-Nickel combined sheet for the series connections as below - Obviously the sheets would have to be made to shape this is just the concept...

folded nickel and stamped copper.JPGcopper assy 2.JPG
Make sure it is compatible with whatever cell holders you plan on using, a lot of them poke out up in the 4 corners of each cell. Also the cell insulator stickers, possibly something else too, your cells might rub against the cutout of the copper holes.

How do you plan on connecting the two sheets? If it is spot weld, you are still doing multiple layers, just with 3 different materials.
The Nickel will be facing downwards - copper on top.

The 2 sheets get soldered together using the small holes before it's put on the battery.

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Chambers   100 W

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Re: Custom frame for the Cyclone Coaxial motor

Post by Chambers » Aug 13 2020 1:27am

Looks like someone beat me to it 3 or so years ago :lol: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=84680&start=100 Also looks like spot welding a nickel copper sandwich works quite well, so that's the method I think I'll use.

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Chambers   100 W

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Re: Custom frame for the Cyclone Coaxial motor

Post by Chambers » Aug 15 2020 6:08am

A few more mods while I look for parts, This frame shape allows for different controllers where as the other one pretty much only fits the nucular 12f anywhere that's out of the way. The new seat uprights will have a graduated curve - It was just easier in Inventor to add folds.
cyclone coaxial -28.jpg
cyclone coaxial -28.jpg (80.25 KiB) Viewed 1575 times
also working on my battery config
battery config 1.JPG
battery config 1.JPG (54.55 KiB) Viewed 1575 times

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Re: Custom frame for the Cyclone Coaxial motor

Post by GP-tech » Aug 28 2020 5:17am

Hey Chambers, great looking bike and mint design skills!

looking forward to see the prototype running. Maybe consider mounting the shock to toptube(less stress for the mainframe) and the rearend pivot piont in the seattube(mentioned before) with the full width of your frame(thats the weak point of an monolink rearend).

Keep in mind that spotwelds should be forcefree at the connections by design(cut and stepdown bend, like bosch packs).

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Re: Custom frame for the Cyclone Coaxial motor

Post by Chambers » Aug 29 2020 2:21am

GP-tech wrote:
Aug 28 2020 5:17am
Hey Chambers, great looking bike and mint design skills!

looking forward to see the prototype running. Maybe consider mounting the shock to toptube(less stress for the mainframe) and the rearend pivot piont in the seattube(mentioned before) with the full width of your frame(thats the weak point of an monolink rearend).

Keep in mind that spotwelds should be forcefree at the connections by design(cut and stepdown bend, like bosch packs).
Thanks, I was thinking about mounting the shock to the top tube too. Not sure what you mean about the battery?

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