BBSHD runs backwards/ forwards sporadically.

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SwampDonkey   100 W

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BBSHD runs backwards/ forwards sporadically.

Post by SwampDonkey » Jul 16 2020 9:27pm

I have a BBSHD running on a cyclone "72V tiny sine wave" controller. Its an amazing little controller, actually. Runs any brushless motor, including industrial brushless servos.

Anyway, I hooked up the hall sensors wrong in the beginning and fried them. Replaced them now the fun really starts. The motor will run backwards and forwards randomly. Ive tried every combination of phase/hall wires possible and it does the same thing. Oddly enough, a couple of combinations runs the motor smoothly, but at about half speed and it gets really hot,especially under load.

Has anybody seen this? All I can find on the subject is to swap phase and hall combinations until it works. Any tests I can do to make sure everything is working properly? I cant take the controller apart because its epoxy potted into a solid little block.

Tommm   100 kW

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Re: BBSHD runs backwards/ forwards sporadically.

Post by Tommm » Jul 17 2020 3:00am

Generally, with a given wire combination, it should always run the same direction.

Everything else you wrote isn't odd, it's what's expected.

SwampDonkey   100 W

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Re: BBSHD runs backwards/ forwards sporadically.

Post by SwampDonkey » Jul 17 2020 5:40pm

It should randomly reverse direction at full speed? Im not sure what you mean by "isnt odd". Thats definitely not normal.

Right now:

-Any wire combination that gives me full speed, randomly reverses direction, running backwards and forwards sporadically.

- The combination that runs forward only will give me about half speed max. While this combination is applied, the reverse and 3-speed wires have no effect. The motor runs forward even if they are connected. And of course it stops working altogether after a few bursts on the throttle.

Does anyone have any ideas about what would cause this?

SwampDonkey   100 W

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BBSHD runs backwards/ forwards sporadically.

Post by SwampDonkey » Jul 17 2020 7:56pm

I have a BBSHD running on a cyclone "72V tiny sine wave" controller. Its an amazing little controller, actually. Runs any brushless motor, including industrial brushless servos.

Anyway, I hooked up the hall sensors wrong in the beginning and fried them. Replaced them now the fun really starts. The motor will run backwards and forwards randomly. Ive tried every combination of phase/hall wires possible and it does the same thing. Oddly enough, a couple of combinations runs the motor smoothly, but at about half speed and it gets really hot,especially under load.

Has anybody seen this? All I can find on the subject is to swap phase and hall combinations until it works. Any tests I can do to make sure everything is working properly? I cant take the controller apart because its epoxy potted into a solid little block.

Update:
Right now:

-Any wire combination that gives me full speed, randomly reverses direction, running backwards and forwards sporadically.

- The combination that runs forward only will give me about half speed max. While this combination is applied, the reverse and 3-speed wires have no effect. The motor runs forward even if they are connected. And of course it stops working altogether after a few bursts on the throttle.

Does anyone have any ideas about what would cause this?
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e-beach   1.21 GW

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Re: BBSHD runs backwards/ forwards sporadically.

Post by e-beach » Jul 17 2020 8:21pm

Well, if you have tested all the hall, phase wire combinations, then it sounds like the controller is either set wrong, or broken. You can also try to test with a "Brushless Controller Tester" from eBay or someplace else.

Have you seen this chart?
phase wire determination.jpg
phase wire determination.jpg (212.56 KiB) Viewed 504 times
:D :bolt:
Favorite Quotes:
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"At a certain point the entropy wins." Maria Helena Braga

Current Build: ProFlex 757 Expert full suspension. Yescomusa 36v 800w Rear DD, upgraded 10AWG solid core through axle phase wires. 15ah Headway, 1000+ cycles, 80% DOD 30A Tronsung controller.

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SwampDonkey   100 W

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Re: BBSHD runs backwards/ forwards sporadically.

Post by SwampDonkey » Jul 17 2020 8:30pm

e-beach wrote:
Jul 17 2020 8:21pm
Well, if you have tested all the hall, phase wire combinations, then it sounds like the controller is either set wrong, or broken. You can also try to test with a "Brushless Controller Tester" from eBay or someplace else.

Have you seen this chart?

phase wire determination.jpg

:D :bolt:
Thanks for the chart! Yeah I think Ive tried em all. Whats happening now is that the motor reverses direction when it encounters resistance. Like its kicked over into the opposite direction. If I sit on the bike and hit the throttle it will stutter, then go full speed in the wrong direction over and over again, every time I hit the throttle. The rotor is bouncing and spinning the wrong way. Could an bad hall sensor cause this?

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Re: BBSHD runs backwards/ forwards sporadically.

Post by e-beach » Jul 17 2020 8:50pm

I would say "no". It doesn't sound like a faulty hall sensor. A faulty hall will cause juddering, (shuddering) but when the wheel is at that spot where it matches up with a bad hall, the motor just stops. Sounds like a controller problem, like it is trying to self learn and not getting it right.

:D :bolt:
Favorite Quotes:
"This is L.A., sugar. There is no 'over the top." Chris Erskine
"At a certain point the entropy wins." Maria Helena Braga

Current Build: ProFlex 757 Expert full suspension. Yescomusa 36v 800w Rear DD, upgraded 10AWG solid core through axle phase wires. 15ah Headway, 1000+ cycles, 80% DOD 30A Tronsung controller.

Past: Trek 4500 Yescomusa 36v 800w front DD.
Liahona, Yescomusa 36v 800w generic front DD.
1992 Trek 800, Yescomusa 800w 36v front DD.

SwampDonkey   100 W

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Re: BBSHD runs backwards/ forwards sporadically.

Post by SwampDonkey » Jul 19 2020 12:06am

e-beach wrote:
Jul 17 2020 8:50pm
I would say "no". It doesn't sound like a faulty hall sensor. A faulty hall will cause juddering, (shuddering) but when the wheel is at that spot where it matches up with a bad hall, the motor just stops. Sounds like a controller problem, like it is trying to self learn and not getting it right.

:D :bolt:
Yeah this controller didnt come with a set of self learn wires. There was a set of plugs that were connected labeled "70% throttle" but they dont appear to have any function either.Im wondering if Luna just sent me a bad controller. That would really suck since I was really fascinated by the tiny size and power of this little 72V sine wave controller. Seemed like a dream come true.

But yeah it still reverses direction randomly and connecting the reverse wires does nothing.

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Re: BBSHD runs backwards/ forwards sporadically.

Post by Tommm » Jul 19 2020 2:18am

SwampDonkey wrote:
Jul 17 2020 5:40pm
It should randomly reverse direction at full speed? Im not sure what you mean by "isnt odd". Thats definitely not normal.
No, that's the exception. The other behaviour is normal.
I wrote it perfectly.

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Re: BBSHD runs backwards/ forwards sporadically.

Post by e-beach » Jul 19 2020 9:39am

Did you ask Luna what is going on with that controller?

:D :bolt:
Favorite Quotes:
"This is L.A., sugar. There is no 'over the top." Chris Erskine
"At a certain point the entropy wins." Maria Helena Braga

Current Build: ProFlex 757 Expert full suspension. Yescomusa 36v 800w Rear DD, upgraded 10AWG solid core through axle phase wires. 15ah Headway, 1000+ cycles, 80% DOD 30A Tronsung controller.

Past: Trek 4500 Yescomusa 36v 800w front DD.
Liahona, Yescomusa 36v 800w generic front DD.
1992 Trek 800, Yescomusa 800w 36v front DD.

SwampDonkey   100 W

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Re: BBSHD runs backwards/ forwards sporadically.

Post by SwampDonkey » Jul 19 2020 2:59pm

e-beach wrote:
Jul 19 2020 9:39am
Did you ask Luna what is going on with that controller?

:D :bolt:
No but I'll send them an email today. I just tried a stock Yuang king Cyclone controller and a 72V Panalogic controller on the BBSHD and both worked fine. Its definitely the amazing "tiny sinewave" controller thats the problem. Unless theres something I dont know.

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E-HP   10 MW

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Re: BBSHD runs backwards/ forwards sporadically.

Post by E-HP » Jul 19 2020 4:35pm

Are you running it at 72V? Is it possible that the controller isn't designed for the motor's rpm? I saw somewhere that the BBSHD at 72V is spinning at around 6200 RPM, so maybe 20 times as fast as most hub motors.

SwampDonkey   100 W

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Re: BBSHD runs backwards/ forwards sporadically.

Post by SwampDonkey » Jul 19 2020 5:48pm

E-HP wrote:
Jul 19 2020 4:35pm
Are you running it at 72V? Is it possible that the controller isn't designed for the motor's rpm? I saw somewhere that the BBSHD at 72V is spinning at around 6200 RPM, so maybe 20 times as fast as most hub motors.
Its actually supposed to be a new 72VCyclone controller. In the past Ive swapped controllers like this and had no issues. I slapped on the stock controller and it worked fine.

I actually have 2 of these Mini" controllers and I just tried the second one. SAME results :shock:

So both controllers run forwards and backwards randomly, it also appears that they overheat as well. They get so hot during bench testing that you cant hold them. Looks like they have a thermal fuse too, because they just stop working altogether. This is under ZERO load. Sheesh.

I dont know wtf is going on here.

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Re: BBSHD runs backwards/ forwards sporadically.

Post by GFD » Jul 23 2020 10:44pm

I have a very similar issue. I am very new to this, I don't claim to know what I'm talking about.

Have you checked the resistance on each of the hall sensors. Shucks, I may even have that wrong. But on the motor I'm working on, one of the wires reads 250 ohms vs the other two reading mega ohms. I am measuring, red to yellow (bad) red to green and red to blue.

I read that you replaced all of them, but what if one is funky.

I am pretty sure that the resistance changes with temp. What if cool, low rpm, the control reads it close enough to get a good signal, but when things start cranking the resistance differs enough to cause confusion in the control and it becomes " unsure " of the motor position, hence changing direction, or almost cogging.

My motor / control freaked out so hard at high rpm it snapped the chain.

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Re: BBSHD runs backwards/ forwards sporadically.

Post by fechter » Jul 24 2020 9:31am

That is pretty strange, but it does sound like the hall/phase wiring may be wrong. With a bad combination, it can run but draws excessive current and overheats. When testing hall/phase combinations, it's best if you have a way to measure the current. When you get the right combination, the full speed/no-load current should be fairly low, like 2.5A.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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Re: BBSHD runs backwards/ forwards sporadically.

Post by GIGATT » Apr 08 2021 2:39pm

SwampDonkey wrote:
Jul 19 2020 5:48pm
E-HP wrote:
Jul 19 2020 4:35pm
Are you running it at 72V? Is it possible that the controller isn't designed for the motor's rpm? I saw somewhere that the BBSHD at 72V is spinning at around 6200 RPM, so maybe 20 times as fast as most hub motors.
Its actually supposed to be a new 72VCyclone controller. In the past Ive swapped controllers like this and had no issues. I slapped on the stock controller and it worked fine.

I actually have 2 of these Mini" controllers and I just tried the second one. SAME results :shock:

So both controllers run forwards and backwards randomly, it also appears that they overheat as well. They get so hot during bench testing that you cant hold them. Looks like they have a thermal fuse too, because they just stop working altogether. This is under ZERO load. Sheesh.

I dont know wtf is going on here.
Hey did you find out what was going on? I had a cyclone motor that would sometimes start to go backwards randomly it would just freewheel (no damage) ... is it the Bluetooth cyclone controller that you have?

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