reliable middrive for commute?

[Laissez]

I'm looking as reliable as possible ebike for my 10km(6miles) commute. I don't need crazy high speed 40km/h(25mph) is enough. Any recommendations? I thought about middrive because maintenance is easier with it compared to rearhub. My weight is 85kg(187lbs).


My commute:

Other route:

[Manbeer]

BBS02 seems like the best bang for the buck right now, few sellers with warehouses in US and EU have them well under 400 shipped

The tsdz2 seems to be a love it or hate it situation, with half the people praising it (mostly with the OSF program) and the other half saying it is built like a bag of turd

I personally want to try one at some point for the hell of it, but if the Bafang is the same price and you dont specifically need a torque sensor, I think nothing will you get more power and more reliability than the bbs02.

[motomech]

There really is no maintenance w/ a hub motor and for your speed and climbing requirements, a geared motor like a Bafang BPM, Mac, Ezee, etc. will do the job more reliably than a mid-drive.
Run it on 48 or 52 Volts.

[amberwolf]

I thought about middrive because maintenance is easier with it compared to rearhub.

Not really. Middrive means replacing chains and sprockets; the more power you use (the more torque on the drivetrain) the sooner that has to happen. Hubmotors (especially direct drive, vs geared, but even geared wont' need much, if any) don't need much, if any, maintenance.

If you have had a hubmotor with a wheel problem, then the problem isn't the motor, it's the wheel, and you'll have that same problem with any wheel, if it's built the same way and sees the same loads.

[Chalo]

If you have had a hubmotor with a wheel problem, then the problem isn't the motor, it's the wheel, and you'll have that same problem with any wheel, if it's built the same way and sees the same loads.

Hub motors typically have much narrower flange spacing and much bigger spoke holes than normal bicycle hubs, and often have more asymmetry between one side and the other, compared to normal bicycle hubs. It's also easier to have the spokes enter the rim from a screwy angle. All these elements reduce wheel reliability.

However, all of them put together don't equal the maintenance burden of a mid drive using the bike's gears.

[fatty]

I thought about middrive because maintenance is easier with it compared to rearhub. My weight is 85kg(187lbs).

As mentioned, this is reversed: direct-drive hub maintenance is dramatically easier compared to middrive.
And with a hardtail, the handling and road holding penalty is not significant.

[Laissez]

Not really. Middrive means replacing chains and sprockets; the more power you use (the more torque on the drivetrain) the sooner that has to happen. Hubmotors (especially direct drive, vs geared, but even geared wont' need much, if any) don't need much, if any, maintenance.

If you have had a hubmotor with a wheel problem, then the problem isn't the motor, it's the wheel, and you'll have that same problem with any wheel, if it's built the same way and sees the same loads.

Well I have to change tires at least twice per year because studded tires for winter. And changing cassettes and chains are very fast to do with quick release tyres. With hub it's not fast to do anything related rear wheel.

BBS02 seems like the best bang for the buck right now, few sellers with warehouses in US and EU have them well under 400 shipped

The tsdz2 seems to be a love it or hate it situation, with half the people praising it (mostly with the OSF program) and the other half saying it is built like a bag of turd

I personally want to try one at some point for the hell of it, but if the Bafang is the same price and you dont specifically need a torque sensor, I think nothing will you get more power and more reliability than the bbs02.

Yeah I thought so, seems like tsdz2 or BBS02 seems the only choices. And I prefer to have throttle which I use some times with current rearhub motor.

[Laissez]

I thought about middrive because maintenance is easier with it compared to rearhub.

Not really. Middrive means replacing chains and sprockets; the more power you use (the more torque on the drivetrain) the sooner that has to happen. Hubmotors (especially direct drive, vs geared, but even geared wont' need much, if any) don't need much, if any, maintenance.

How often is often to change chains and sprockets?
Any estimates how long they last? Something like 750W bbs02 isn't crazy powerful?

[kcuf]

personally use cheap $10-$12 chains

between 1-2k miles before seeing measurable wear


avoid small rear cogs

especially 11t


use a chain wear gauge/tool regularly

swap for a new chain any measured wear

doing so greatly reduces cog wear

[Laissez]

personally use cheap $10-$12 chains

between 1-2k miles before seeing measurable wear


avoid small rear cogs

especially 11t


use a chain wear gauge/tool regularly

swap for a new chain any measured wear

doing so greatly reduces cog wear

Thanks I currently have 10 speed cassette at back. But after it's done I thought about getting 7-8 speed cassette. I was planning to get 48 tooth front chainring. Is there cassettes with larger than 11t cogs?

[kcuf]

more limited choices bbs 02 vs hd

smallest front ring better 44t if option


cassette cogs may be readily changeable

freewheel cluster cogs not so easy


most riders will never

need more than

3-5 gear options

[Laissez]

more limited choices bbs 02 vs hd

smallest front ring better 44t if option


cassette cogs may be readily changeable

freewheel cluster cogs not so easy


most riders will never

need more than

3-5 gear options

I have cassette and tools to change it. It's really fast job to do. Why only 44t? I was thinking about getting 48-50t front ring so no need to use the smaller rings at the back so often.

[Stu Summer]

I have a bbshd with a 61tooth chainring so I can effectively pedal at 35mph. To your question, I have done quite a bit of maintenance on my BBSHDs to keep them running. The hub motor is more reliable for sure.

[Laissez]

I have a bbshd with a 61tooth chainring so I can effectively pedal at 35mph. To your question, I have done quite a bit of maintenance on my BBSHDs to keep them running. The hub motor is more reliable for sure.

Yes but I'm looking for bbs02 which has less torque and and watts compared to bbshd

[Chalo]

I have a bbshd with a 61tooth chainring so I can effectively pedal at 35mph. To your question, I have done quite a bit of maintenance on my BBSHDs to keep them running. The hub motor is more reliable for sure.

Yes but I'm looking for bbs02 which has less torque and and watts compared to bbshd

I have only used the BBS02 on my own bike, with all stock settings. I'm a longtime cycle mechanic, so I did everything I could to refine the chainline and keep the thing maintained and adjusted. Despite this, I went through at least three times as many chains and cassettes as I would have during the same mileage on a pedal bike.

Having followed up with two different front hub motor bikes, I can tell you that hub motor bikes demand less maintenance than regular pedal bikes. Mid drives demand much more.

Mid drives are more fun and more capable, watt for watt. Hub motor drives are more likely to get you to work on time, and less likely to leave you walking.

[Warren]

Mid drives are more fun and more capable, watt for watt. Hub motor drives are more likely to get you to work on time, and less likely to leave you walking.

Totally agree. I put 30K on a 250-500 watt mid-drive. I ate one rear derailleur, one freehub, and lots of chains.

My monster DD required 150 mm dropout spacing to get half decent dish with an 8 speed freewheel. But it has only broken one spoke in 29k miles. I didn't even notice until I got home. The spokes are like the size of a Philips screwdriver shaft! Reminds me of the spoked wheels on my old MGA. Stupid thick.

[Laissez]

I have a bbshd with a 61tooth chainring so I can effectively pedal at 35mph. To your question, I have done quite a bit of maintenance on my BBSHDs to keep them running. The hub motor is more reliable for sure.

Yes but I'm looking for bbs02 which has less torque and and watts compared to bbshd

I have only used the BBS02 on my own bike, with all stock settings. I'm a longtime cycle mechanic, so I did everything I could to refine the chainline and keep the thing maintained and adjusted. Despite this, I went through at least three times as many chains and cassettes as I would have during the same mileage on a pedal bike.

Having followed up with two different front hub motor bikes, I can tell you that hub motor bikes demand less maintenance than regular pedal bikes. Mid drives demand much more.

Mid drives are more fun and more capable, watt for watt. Hub motor drives are more likely to get you to work on time, and less likely to leave you walking.

I have suspension fork so front hub is not option. Also we get a lot of snow here during winter so I have to change tires multiple times per year to studded and to non studded depending on snow/ice situation and with rearhub it's a bit pita. Changing chain/casette is fast thing to do. And I heard if you cycle with 3 chains you get over 2000 miles out of cassette. Also I'm using my bike for leisure driving etc. not just for commuting

Mid drives are more fun and more capable, watt for watt. Hub motor drives are more likely to get you to work on time, and less likely to leave you walking.

Totally agree. I put 30K on a 250-500 watt mid-drive. I ate one rear derailleur, one freehub, and lots of chains.

How so, why would mid drive leave me on road? During winter and spring(approximately November-March/April) we have a lot sharp gravel on roads which punctures a lot of tires.

[amberwolf]

I have suspension fork so front hub is not option.

Suspension fork doesn't eliminate using a hubmotor automatically. Depends on your fork if it will work with any particular hubmotor. There are a few different kinds of mountings and axles, so there is probably one that will work with your fork.

How so, why would mid drive leave me on road?

If the middrive goes thru the pedal drivetrain, and the middrive breaks the drivetrain, then you can't pedal either.

[Laissez]

If the middrive goes thru the pedal drivetrain, and the middrive breaks the drivetrain, then you can't pedal either.

Yep, I have always spare chain and inner tube with me. The fear I have with hub motor is tire puncture during winter when it's going to be pain to change the inner tube.

[amberwolf]

Yep, I have always spare chain and inner tube with me. The fear I have with hub motor is tire puncture during winter when it's going to be pain to change the inner tube.

The sudden-failure problems that can happen with middrives that also disable the pedal drivetrain also include:
--freehub or freewheel in the rear wheel
--gearing in an IGH, or it's overload shear pin
--the freewheel for the cranks at the drive itself
--bearings inside the drive on the crankshaft, etc.
--derailer on a multispeed non-IGH rear cluster


For hubmotors and tire/tube problems, there are some things that help minimize the time needed to deal with it, such as preparing connections for easy disconnect/reconnect, preferably right at the axle so you don't have a bunch of wire to tie down, and using motors with integrated torque arms so there's not a bunch of separate pieces to handle and put back just the right way.

I ride heavy-cargo haulers, these days using just big heavy hubmotors, so any tire/tube problem is a huge PITA, especially if I'm carrying cargo (cuz it might have to be unloaded to deal with the problem). So i understand the issues.

FWIW, I've only ever broken a handful of chains, all while riding...all of them by using motors thru the pedal drivetrain. I've worn out lots of chains with just pedals or with motors...but never actually broke any by only pedalling.

[Laissez]

Yep, I have always spare chain and inner tube with me. The fear I have with hub motor is tire puncture during winter when it's going to be pain to change the inner tube.

The sudden-failure problems that can happen with middrives that also disable the pedal drivetrain also include:
--freehub or freewheel in the rear wheel
--gearing in an IGH, or it's overload shear pin
--the freewheel for the cranks at the drive itself
--bearings inside the drive on the crankshaft, etc.
--derailer on a multispeed non-IGH rear cluster


For hubmotors and tire/tube problems, there are some things that help minimize the time needed to deal with it, such as preparing connections for easy disconnect/reconnect, preferably right at the axle so you don't have a bunch of wire to tie down, and using motors with integrated torque arms so there's not a bunch of separate pieces to handle and put back just the right way.

I ride heavy-cargo haulers, these days using just big heavy hubmotors, so any tire/tube problem is a huge PITA, especially if I'm carrying cargo (cuz it might have to be unloaded to deal with the problem). So i understand the issues.

FWIW, I've only ever broken a handful of chains, all while riding...all of them by using motors thru the pedal drivetrain. I've worn out lots of chains with just pedals or with motors...but never actually broke any by only pedalling.

Yep, I have geared rear hub motor(MXUS XF15) on my rigid hybrid bike it's a bit rear heavy and it would be really PITA to change the front tire because I have 2 torque arms with it. I just thought about getting mid drive for my mtb for easier tire change(because I do this multiple times a year, onroad/offroad/winter tires) and more balanced ride.

[electric_nz]

For what it’s worth the cyclone kits have been rock solid for me. Not exactly subtle or elegant though and the motor mounts are the weak point of the kits.