Best Mid-drive Motors in 2021

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
Bullfrog   10 kW

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Re: Best Mid-drive Motors in 2021

Post by Bullfrog » Nov 28 2021 1:08pm

Just got a message from California Ebike and they are telling me there are no sources for pre 2016 motor. If there is anybody that would know, it is California Ebike.

I have had really good luck with my BBSHD...maybe it is time for a change.

I agree it sucks when a company stops supporting a product they produced/sold.

I still think Tom (Tech Guru) and Doug (Owner) at California Ebike are awesome and I'd highly recomend them :D .
Last edited by Bullfrog on Feb 19 2022 9:11am, edited 1 time in total.

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tomjasz   10 GW

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Re: Best Mid-drive Motors in 2021

Post by tomjasz » Nov 28 2021 3:03pm

Earlier versions of the BBSHD have an issue with snapping rotor shafts. Doug sorted it and can supply a new rotor with beefier shaft and change the bearing for backwards compatibility. We're actually the source for amberwolfs BBSss controller error thread and firmware. At the time we were worried about attribution and Bafang's mostly useless support.

I'm grabbing one more BBS02B version along with spare parts for future repairs. The motor I love from the maker I have no faith in.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Deafcat   100 W

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Re: Best Mid-drive Motors in 2021

Post by Deafcat » Dec 01 2021 12:39pm

raylo32 wrote:
Nov 25 2021 11:23am
So a couple of weeks turn into a couple of months. Is it "soon" yet?
Deafcat wrote:
Oct 09 2021 10:30pm
Bullfrog wrote:
Oct 01 2021 3:47pm
I'll keep you guys posted here for news, we're making quick progress with the film work (marketing), and other things that need to be checked off before product reveal... It's been a very exciting couple of weeks for the whole team!

Busy company, lot of videos/new product in the pipeline... I was expecting this would be done for November but it sounds like December it is! Video should be live within the next week.

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Deafcat   100 W

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Re: Best Mid-drive Motors in 2021

Post by Deafcat » Dec 30 2021 4:22pm

Alright folks, I've seen the first video and it is amazing... But this will have to be filed under "Best Mid Drive Motor 2022" as I don't think I can share till January most likely. I'm certain you're all going to enjoy this one!

raylo32   10 kW

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Re: Best Mid-drive Motors in 2021

Post by raylo32 » Feb 01 2022 10:44am

Wait, what? Is it really February already? LOL. ;-)
Deafcat wrote:
Dec 30 2021 4:22pm
Alright folks, I've seen the first video and it is amazing... But this will have to be filed under "Best Mid Drive Motor 2022" as I don't think I can share till January most likely. I'm certain you're all going to enjoy this one!

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Deafcat   100 W

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Re: Best Mid-drive Motors in 2021

Post by Deafcat » Feb 01 2022 12:20pm

Haven't forgotten about you guys! Public launch is slated for Feb 22, but I'll share details before then probably.

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Skaiwerd   1 kW

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Re: Best Mid-drive Motors in 2021

Post by Skaiwerd » Feb 01 2022 12:25pm

Do it!
The lightningRods big block is looking very appealing, especially with a Nuclear 12f.

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Re: Best Mid-drive Motors in 2021

Post by ktronik » Feb 16 2022 3:55pm

Deafcat wrote:
Feb 01 2022 12:20pm
Haven't forgotten about you guys! Public launch is slated for Feb 22, but I'll share details before then probably.
Its the 22nd here is AU, where is this new MID driver.... ahahaha

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Deafcat   100 W

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Re: Best Mid-drive Motors in 2021

Post by Deafcat » Feb 16 2022 7:43pm

Screenshot_20220216-184141.png
Screenshot_20220216-184141.png (473.5 KiB) Viewed 648 times
Six days

Bigwheel   100 W

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Re: Best Mid-drive Motors in 2021

Post by Bigwheel » Feb 16 2022 9:16pm

Tease :?

calab   100 kW

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Re: Best Mid-drive Motors in 2021

Post by calab » Feb 17 2022 7:18pm

Probably not share details before Feb 22, or was that computer generated image the singular detail to share, 5 days and counting.
Deafcat wrote:
Feb 01 2022 12:20pm
Haven't forgotten about you guys! Public launch is slated for Feb 22, but I'll share details before then probably.

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Re: Best Mid-drive Motors in 2021

Post by Hillhater » Feb 17 2022 8:05pm

Nah !... i dont like red motor units ! :lol:
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

calab   100 kW

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Re: Best Mid-drive Motors in 2021

Post by calab » Feb 17 2022 8:07pm

So blue motors are better?

You racist you
Hillhater wrote:
Feb 17 2022 8:05pm
Nah !... i dont like red motor units ! :lol:

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Deafcat   100 W

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Re: Best Mid-drive Motors in 2021

Post by Deafcat » Feb 17 2022 10:32pm

download.png
download.png (294.31 KiB) Viewed 574 times
here ya go, teaser of a real motor!

Hillhater   100 GW

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Re: Best Mid-drive Motors in 2021

Post by Hillhater » Feb 18 2022 12:45am

Ahh ! “Neopolitan” style !...... not a bad name for a new motor either .?
... But still too much red in there :wink:
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Deafcat   100 W

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Re: Best Mid-drive Motors in 2021

Post by Deafcat » Feb 18 2022 10:50pm

last one was kinda shit, here... Four Days now, really:

Happy weekend! Cheers,
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DingusMcGee   10 kW

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Re: Best Mid-drive Motors in 2021

Post by DingusMcGee » Feb 19 2022 9:06am

Again I post on this thread. The literal request by the thread author is asking what is the best motor not what is the best motor kit. It seems responders are posting what they think is the best motor kit which very likely is different from what kit contains the best motor. Better yet: are the best motors available in kit from?

1boris   100 W

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Re: Best Mid-drive Motors in 2021

Post by 1boris » Feb 19 2022 7:38pm

greenbikekit.com have parts

Bullfrog   10 kW

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Re: Best Mid-drive Motors in 2021

Post by Bullfrog » Feb 20 2022 10:22am

Deafcat wrote:
Feb 18 2022 10:50pm
last one was kinda shit, here... Four Days now, really:

Happy weekend! Cheers,
So Tuesday the 22nd of Feb is the big reveal day :shock: .

Can you tell us anything at this point...i.e. mid drive, hub, geared hub? Allowable battery voltage? etc.?

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Deafcat   100 W

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Re: Best Mid-drive Motors in 2021

Post by Deafcat » Feb 20 2022 10:51am

Mid drive, up to 60V, 50A, over 300 Nm torque at the rear wheel, tougher than anything I've ever ridden. We have tried to destroy these bikes and nothing will break (besides some early electronics iterations, usually from R&D guys wiring things up weird, the engineers did nothing wrong!)

Bullfrog   10 kW

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Re: Best Mid-drive Motors in 2021

Post by Bullfrog » Feb 20 2022 11:27am

Deafcat wrote:
Feb 20 2022 10:51am
Mid drive, up to 60V, 50A, over 300 Nm torque at the rear wheel, tougher than anything I've ever ridden. We have tried to destroy these bikes and nothing will break (besides some early electronics iterations, usually from R&D guys wiring things up weird, the engineers did nothing wrong!)
Thanks

A few more questions please...

A. Is it limited to 60v because of the components used in the controller? I am assuming it has an internal controller...please correct me if I have it wrong.

B. Is 50A battery current the maximum battery current the controller can handle?

C. What about maximum phase amperage?

D. What is the max torque at the output shaft of the motor? You said 300 Nm of torque at the rear wheel...that can be skewed by the bikes gearing.

E. Is it designed to be used on just about any bike i.e. does it replace the bottom bracket? I run 75mm crank arms on my BBSHD and they are the shortest available unless you custom make your own. I went with the short crank arms because they are as close as I can get to foot pegs but still meet the "capable of being propelled by human power alone" requirement so my bikes can legally be classified as a "bicycle" according to Florida law.

Thanks again.

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Deafcat   100 W

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Re: Best Mid-drive Motors in 2021

Post by Deafcat » Feb 20 2022 12:33pm

Bullfrog,

The ESC (motor controller) will actually take 72V Nominal (~90VDC) and up to 90A, but we have never tested the system that high due to our preference for commercially-available battery packs. Most likely the motor will burn out at those power levels anyway :)

50A is about what our pack BMS's max out at, I think we may have access to 25Ah packs with higher amperage headroom soon though.

Phase amps, you'd have to ask my team-mates... I don't usually dabble with ESC programming myself (mechanical, mfg, production are my jam)

Motor torque at the output sprocket is around 200 Nm, there are two fixed-ratio reduction stages between motor core and rear wheel (no gears to change, not necessary).

The motor installs into the same frame-bracket as Ultra motors, it cannot be installed into a pedal-bikes bottom-bracket. The system is designed for PAS, but can be operated throttle-only (we commonly do, with twist throttles, for off-road use)

DingusMcGee   10 kW

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Re: Best Mid-drive Motors in 2021

Post by DingusMcGee » Feb 21 2022 9:56am

I see LR has dropped the old 2 -3 kw small block motor kit and upped the size of his small block motor/kit to a 5k motor. Maybe a market gap now exists for this little ESC motor?

Personally I prefer far less milling of the motor cover parts and the needed bolts than what the ESC has for shielding the motor. You get far easier access to the motor for cleaning ebike dirt and mud and repair and replacement of parts when these motors are uncovered. If there is an opening mud will get into the compartment. The covering is $$$ extra for what gets in your way when cleaning and servicing.

Bullfrog   10 kW

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Re: Best Mid-drive Motors in 2021

Post by Bullfrog » Feb 21 2022 12:12pm

Deafcat wrote:
Feb 20 2022 12:33pm
Bullfrog,

The ESC (motor controller) will actually take 72V Nominal (~90VDC) and up to 90A, but we have never tested the system that high due to our preference for commercially-available battery packs. Most likely the motor will burn out at those power levels anyway :)

50A is about what our pack BMS's max out at, I think we may have access to 25Ah packs with higher amperage headroom soon though.

Phase amps, you'd have to ask my team-mates... I don't usually dabble with ESC programming myself (mechanical, mfg, production are my jam)

Motor torque at the output sprocket is around 200 Nm, there are two fixed-ratio reduction stages between motor core and rear wheel (no gears to change, not necessary).

The motor installs into the same frame-bracket as Ultra motors, it cannot be installed into a pedal-bikes bottom-bracket. The system is designed for PAS, but can be operated throttle-only (we commonly do, with twist throttles, for off-road use)
Thanks for all the info.

The fact that the motor mounts like a Bafang Ultra rules it out for me. Just a suggestion, design and offer a separate motor that will mount similarly to the BBSHD as well as the one you have...that will should cover just about every bike frame made today.

scianiac   10 W

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Re: Best Mid-drive Motors in 2021

Post by scianiac » Feb 21 2022 1:34pm

I'm assuming you're plan is to primarily sell these to bike manufacturers or assemblers who will install them in their own frames or Bafang compatible frames, I hope you find some good sized customers off the bat but it may be tricky. If you can provide some recommendations of frames and some advice on how to order these sometimes tricky to source frames you may find a lot of customers who just want to build a 1 off bike or those who will build small runs of bikes or built to order bikes. I expect the limiting factor for most (besides cost of course) will be finding a good quality bike frame and matching battery and being able to order it with sans motor easily so providing a little bit of direction there could go a long way. And then at least you'll have a good number of bikes out in the wild for testing and feedback that will help you find larger customers (assuming you don't already have some lined up).

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