Rickshaw mid drive systems (fuk cyclone)

Sattva Ram

100 W
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Jan 4, 2020
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I'm seriously vacilating between the 40H and the 60H mid drives. The 40H is 3200 rpm 48v 4kg and the 60H is 3200 60v 5.4kg. The plan is either buy the small with a far driver 72300 (s12) spun at 7k rpm at 21s with around 170% flux weakening with a 10.2 to 1 reduction giving around 85 kph top speed with a 110 kg bike including me. Or buy the bigger one spinning at around 6k rpm with a 8.36 reduction with the same top speed with the far driver 72360. My main problem is not knowing where the saturation point of the small one might be maybe 300 phase is just too much for the small motor? 🤔 I'm confident that 360 phase is within saturation point for the big one but who knows if the small is just too small. Sure the big one would be a safer bet and if they were not fanned it would be a no brainer to buy the big due to thermal problems. But since they are fanned and i'll hole it up like a swiss cheese the small might just suffice after all with a shaft driven fan the continuous rating with these knows no limit. I'm shooting for 100amps continuous for both thanks to the fan and i think both could do it. The main question is rather if the small woud get saturated at 300 initial phase current. Sure the bigger would have more punch and bigger overall efficiency but it's wider and needs large q factor also has bigger resistance due to bigger rotor. My line of thinking is that the 7.6kg qs 165 sur ron spm motor gets saturated at 500 phase this is a kinda well known data. so if i base it off of kilograms the 4 kg small motor has to have around 240ish saturation point it's not entirelly linear tho for a smaller motor always has worse rotor/winding mass per overall kg. However the sur ron is spm and this is ipm. Is it possible that the ipm saturates better and maybe be able to squezee out the coveted 300 phase from the small one? Or maybe it doesnt even matter because even 240 phase would make a normal small wheelbase bicycle wheelie so max phase couldnt be utilized anyway and when it's no longer wheelie happy having gained some angular momentum the phase amps taper below saturation anyway...(of course it highly depends on gearing also). It's my first mid build i know what's what in hub land but i'm a noob in the midfled.

Any expert advice is appreciated.
 

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If your Ebike wheelies quite easily, you likely have too high of a gear ratio. Experiment by adding motor cog teeth is usually easier and cheaper than lowering the size of a much bigger rear sprocket.

Also, if you have a throttle response modifying option (like the Cyclone eMotor cell app)or a CycleAnalylist you can lower the velocity uptake rate which will lessen conditions for wheelies occurring.

Or move the C of G forward.

Better Yet: learn to control Whiskey Throttle — Welcome to the world of edirtbiking — wheelies all the time because when the bike weight is all on the powered rear wheel you get the most traction.
 
Well it wasnt what i was interested in particularly. i dont know if it wheelies or not that is yet to be seen. but my prayers have been answered i just saw a rickshaw parked nearby and it had the 60H motor it is very reasonable of size still even a normal 140 bb might be enough and i may not even have to custommake one. so i'll buy that with the far driver 72360...
 
I'm curious: Are you building a rickshaw or similar large-cargo-trike type setup? If so, I'd love to see your ideas for it, to see if any of them can be applied to the future SB Cruiser Mk2 (as I have yet to settle on the specific non-hubmotor-drive setup I will use).
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84161
 
amberwolf said:
I'm curious: Are you building a rickshaw or similar large-cargo-trike type setup? If so, I'd love to see your ideas for it, to see if any of them can be applied to the future SB Cruiser Mk2 (as I have yet to settle on the specific non-hubmotor-drive setup I will use).
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84161


Nono i meant it as a replacement for the cyclone kits. Okay okay i know it's not a complete bicycle kit so a lotta welding and hecking is needed until you paste it ona bicycle but i wanted a left side drive anyway and i almost bought the cyclone without gear. I'm so glad i didnt and found these. These are far superior motors and cheaper. It will be some sort of an ultimate ebike i build 5 kwh pack in classical fully triangle frame and rickshaw motor put the the absolute edge. I bought the 60H eventually. You just gotta watch out that it's not the spm version when buying. These are good for everything bicycle trike recumbent... you name it...of course if you dont have q factor problems it's not worth it for you can get qs for similar price. But there's no way you can put qs mids on bicycles. So this is pretty much the only bicycle option if you want a proper ebike not with shitty cyclone or cyc. Also if you can utilize the shaft driven fan only the sky is the limit i argue that you can get tens of kilowatts continuous if the motor is drilled up so in this sense better than qs. However the shaft needs to be machined too so there will be an awful lotta work before it's ready but i argue that if you want an ultimate ebike you simply have no choice but these...(at least if you arent a bank robber)
 
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