Stinky Turnigy 80-100 -Nuvinci semi auto

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
User avatar
gwhy!
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1230
Joined: Jan 13, 2009 8:32 am
Location: UK, Bristol

Re: Stinky -HXT -Planetary Box

Post by gwhy! » Nov 28, 2009 10:08 am

Burtie wrote:gw,

The no load current of my Turingy 80-85 motor at 37v is about 5.5Amps

Burtie.
Thanks so much for this burtie. That ties in nicely because the large skirt bearing was drawing about 1A. I am a bit disappointed to how much the idle current is but if this is the norm for this motor I spose its not that bad for the price. Did you find yours gets hot very quickly?.

User avatar
Burtie
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 561
Joined: Mar 27, 2009 9:45 am
Location: UK

Re: Stinky -HXT -Planetary Box

Post by Burtie » Nov 28, 2009 10:23 am

When I first ran it, the area around the skirt bearing got quite hot after a minute or so at full RPM. I thought it was due to friction in the bearing, so I stripped it down, washed out the bearing in paraffin and re-lubed it.
The motor runs much cooler now.

The skirt bearing still felt a bit rough even after cleaning it out, so I have a new bearing ordered. I hope that when I fit it, the motor will run a bit quieter.

[Edit: It does run much quieter]
Last edited by Burtie on Jan 06, 2010 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
AussieJester
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 9447
Joined: Mar 11, 2008 3:33 am
Location: Perth Western Australia

Re: Stinky -HXT -Planetary Box

Post by AussieJester » Nov 28, 2009 7:58 pm

Whilst we are on bearings i got an email from my local bearing supplier, i asked if he could
source ceramic bearings for the turnigy, he can, at 50 bucks a pop IF i order a minimum of 5 LoL

KiM

User avatar
Burtie
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 561
Joined: Mar 27, 2009 9:45 am
Location: UK

Re: Stinky -HXT -Planetary Box

Post by Burtie » Nov 29, 2009 10:59 am

:shock:

KiM, have you considered just adding a larger, cheaper external bearing housed in your motor mounting?

User avatar
gwhy!
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1230
Joined: Jan 13, 2009 8:32 am
Location: UK, Bristol

Re: Stinky -HXT -Planetary Box

Post by gwhy! » Nov 29, 2009 11:25 am

Burtie wrote::shock:

KiM, have you considered just adding a larger, cheaper external bearing housed in your motor mounting?
This is what I have done with all 3 of my motors.

User avatar
AussieJester
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 9447
Joined: Mar 11, 2008 3:33 am
Location: Perth Western Australia

Re: Stinky -HXT -Planetary Box

Post by AussieJester » Nov 29, 2009 7:33 pm

Burtie wrote::shock:

KiM, have you considered just adding a larger, cheaper external bearing housed in your motor mounting?
Yes this will be done on the second motor but i can't do it for the number 1 motor the reduction drive
doesn't have the 'space' on the mounting plat for additional bearings. I did think of popping the motors endplate in the lathe
and turning the bearing recess out to accept a larger bearing though. I still haven't stripped the motor though
so not sure if this is an option yet. The second motor i get will be the newer version with larger bearings if i can
copy this and modify the older motor I'll be happy chappy...

KiM

User avatar
Burtie
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 561
Joined: Mar 27, 2009 9:45 am
Location: UK

Re: Stinky -HXT -Planetary Box -Blown up

Post by Burtie » Dec 10, 2009 3:06 pm

Today I blew up my HV110 :? I dont know why it happened. I had the extra capacitors fitted since it was new (2x 1000uf).

I had been trying out a new motor, the turnigy 80-85. I had two good runs with it, about 2 or 3 miles in total, pulling a peak current of 120 amps for a short period. The controller was bolted to a large heatsink and was not even warm.

I recharged the LiPos and was testing the motor/gearbox with the drive chain removed so there was very little load on the motor. I span the motor up to full RPM and closed the throttle. This worked ok twice, the third time I tried it, the motor did not spin. I closed the throtle and opened it once more. There was a dull 'pop' followed by the acrid magic smoke from the controller :roll:


This is the 2nd RC controller I have fried in a week using the same motor (See Turnigy Monster 200 thread). The motor does not seem to have any shorted windings.
Last edited by Burtie on Dec 27, 2009 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
AussieJester
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 9447
Joined: Mar 11, 2008 3:33 am
Location: Perth Western Australia

Re: Stinky -HXT -Planetary Box -Blown up

Post by AussieJester » Dec 10, 2009 5:32 pm

Burtie wrote:Today I blew up my HV110 :
Noooooooooooooooooo Burtieeeeeeeeeeeeeee... DAMN it! man your not instilling a lot of confidence in my setup buddy blowing stuff and sync issues LoL.. My only last hope is Mr Fechters lil black box of tricks being the difference..Least i can limit current with it.

Can you get me a close up of the heat sink and ESC please mate (if your not still fuming...when you return to "no pissed" mode is fine buddy) mine is still all stock config with original heat sinks i haven't tampered with it yet but i do have a large box of old pc CPU heat sinks i could attach. I been a lil erm "timid" about pulling it apart. Me and electronics have a somewhat chequered past ... me gets frustrated electrnics getz broked is the general course things take.

So Burtie, are you at the 'fit hall sensors' and use a brushless speed controller stage yet?
Or is it a HV140 on the cards (actually i think i saw JohnRobHolmes mention they have stopped making that
model and have another in its place i dont recall the exact number...)

Shit luck anywayz Burtie...Hope ou get something sorted so we can see you tearing around in a video again :-)

KiM

User avatar
Burtie
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 561
Joined: Mar 27, 2009 9:45 am
Location: UK

Re: Stinky -HXT -Planetary Box -Going sensored

Post by Burtie » Dec 27, 2009 7:01 pm

OK,
Its time to do the hall sensored thing :D

Here is a the hall sensor ring, made from a milled up plastic bread board.
Sensor ring.jpg
Sensor ring.jpg (42.63 KiB) Viewed 4586 times
18 FET controller to follow....

User avatar
etard
10 MW
10 MW
Posts: 2074
Joined: Aug 03, 2008 3:28 pm
Location: Redlands, CA

Re: Stinky -HXT -Planetary Box -Going Sensored

Post by etard » Dec 27, 2009 8:33 pm

Hmmmm, I don't think we allow pictures of kitty's on this forum, I think we should flag that last post Burtie. Right guys?? :wink:
Four wheels moves the body, Two wheels moves the soul
Thanks to Justin @ http://www.ebike.ca He brings the soul to ES

User avatar
voicecoils
10 MW
10 MW
Posts: 2288
Joined: Sep 16, 2007 6:31 am
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Re: Stinky -HXT -Planetary Box -Going Sensored

Post by voicecoils » Dec 27, 2009 9:21 pm

etard wrote:Hmmmm, I don't think we allow pictures of kitty's on this forum, I think we should flag that last post Burtie. Right guys?? :wink:
I'm pretty sure that's an alien, not a cat.

And does that alien have a bit of plastic bread board over it's head too? Looks like there is a square thing with a round hole around its neck...

User avatar
Burtie
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 561
Joined: Mar 27, 2009 9:45 am
Location: UK

Re: Stinky -HXT -Planetary Box -Sensored Video!??

Post by Burtie » Jan 05, 2010 7:34 pm

Thought I would have a go at glueing the sensors inside the motor, cos it seems like loads less trouble, and both gwhy! and Jeremy have had good results doing this. --------So here goes------ :?

Internal hall sensor.jpg
Glue em on in!
Internal hall sensor.jpg (141.58 KiB) Viewed 4745 times


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VhZcLkoBZw


User avatar
Miles
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 11434
Joined: Mar 16, 2007 4:15 pm
Location: London UK

Re: Stinky -HXT -Planetary Box -Sensored Movie??

Post by Miles » Jan 05, 2010 7:55 pm

Commiserations.... Different glue, next time? Or is that the sensoring? :mrgreen:
Attachments
You tube error.jpg
You tube error.jpg (43.33 KiB) Viewed 4332 times

User avatar
Burtie
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 561
Joined: Mar 27, 2009 9:45 am
Location: UK

Re: Stinky -HXT -Planetary Box -Sensored Movie??

Post by Burtie » Jan 05, 2010 8:18 pm

Hi Miles,

I think they only "sensored" the low quality version :o . It seems to work ok if you click the HQ button.

User avatar
AussieJester
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 9447
Joined: Mar 11, 2008 3:33 am
Location: Perth Western Australia

Re: Stinky -HXT -Planetary Box -Sensored Movie??

Post by AussieJester » Jan 05, 2010 8:19 pm

Very cool Burtie looks like your on your way too trouble free controller now mate :-)

I see to we have a similar 'secret weapon' i.e BeeR
is that that room temp black pee alot of you POMs drink or REAL beer, amber in colour and
icey cold? If not the later perhaps swapping to it will improve results :mrgreen:

KiM
Last edited by AussieJester on Jan 05, 2010 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
enoob
1 kW
1 kW
Posts: 425
Joined: Oct 15, 2009 8:05 pm
Location: langley bc .

Re: Stinky -HXT -Planetary Box -Sensored Movie??

Post by enoob » Jan 05, 2010 10:08 pm

very cool .

i to like the fact that our mutual friend BEER is involved . very handy fellow to have around, good marriage counselor too.

nice to see hall sensor installs are not a complete mystery.
M.E.N.S ex pres and charter member.

User avatar
Burtie
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 561
Joined: Mar 27, 2009 9:45 am
Location: UK

Re: Stinky -HXT -Planetary Box -Sensored Movie??

Post by Burtie » Jan 06, 2010 3:46 am

Yes,
I was pleased with the performance of the beer, and it remained stable throughout the course of the experiment.


For those who may be wondering, the halls are Honeywell ss411a spaced at 120 (mechanical) degree intervals. :D

Burtie.

User avatar
etard
10 MW
10 MW
Posts: 2074
Joined: Aug 03, 2008 3:28 pm
Location: Redlands, CA

Re: Stinky -HXT -Planetary Box -Sensored Movie??

Post by etard » Jan 06, 2010 11:32 am

Great job as always Burtie!! Question: Do you have to use high temp wire or something when it runs around inside the motor like this? It seems like when things heat up, the wire jacketing would be the first to smoke, or does the epoxy fail first? I guess we will see.

Isn't it a misnomer that the English drink warm beer? I mean, they don't drink it ice cold like other places, buy they don't drink it warm either. Is it the Germans that drink it warm?
Four wheels moves the body, Two wheels moves the soul
Thanks to Justin @ http://www.ebike.ca He brings the soul to ES

User avatar
gwhy!
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1230
Joined: Jan 13, 2009 8:32 am
Location: UK, Bristol

Re: Stinky -HXT -Planetary Box -Sensored Movie??

Post by gwhy! » Jan 06, 2010 12:43 pm

nice one Burtie,
What voltage where you running in your video? im surprised that there is such a difference in no load current comapared to my motor 8085 which is 5A+ @ 44v. Make sure your glue holding the halls in is up to the job temp wise. When I modded my 6fet controller it had a much faster throttle response over the standard controller.. looking forward to seeing this on your bike..

kfong
10 MW
10 MW
Posts: 2111
Joined: Sep 02, 2008 11:34 am
Location: SE Michigan, USA
Contact:

Re: Stinky -HXT -Planetary Box -Sensored Movie??

Post by kfong » Jan 06, 2010 12:59 pm

Hi Bertie,

I'll be doing the same. I picked up the Turnigy 80-100-A 180Kv about a month back. I like how you just glued the sensor to the windings. I was going to CNC a plate like what you tried earlier. How did you get the phase wires coordinated, or was it just trial and error till you got it to spin. Also was there are reference position you had to start off with or did you just mount them 120degs and assume the rest would be handled by the controllers software.

Kin

User avatar
Burtie
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 561
Joined: Mar 27, 2009 9:45 am
Location: UK

Re: Stinky -HXT -Planetary Box -Sensored Movie??

Post by Burtie » Jan 06, 2010 5:30 pm

etard,

I am guessing the hall sensors would stop working, or the epoxy would fail before the insulation on the new wires would melt :? .
The new sensor wires are actualy routed straight out the front of the motor so they hardly touch the windings at all. They were wrapped around in the picture just to hold the sensors in place while the glue set.

'Real Ale' (the live, non sterilized beer) is best drunk at just below room temp, about 12c to 15c so you can taste the groovy flavours! However probably most of the beer sold over here is what we call 'lager', light in colour, sterelized and served cold as kiM describes on the previous page.


beer.jpg
beer ---"helping with motor assembly, everywhere".
beer.jpg (102.81 KiB) Viewed 4223 times

gwhy!,
The voltage in the video was 24.

I wonder if the stator lamination material is different in the new style 80-85 motors, the cogging seems to be very much less (perhaps 90% less) than the older 80-100 motor that I have. Could this account for the higher no-load current?
The lamination thickness looks to be the same, the magnets appear to be of a similar strength, airgap and geometry are similar (except of course for the 15mm shorter stator).

What modifications did you make to your 6 FET controller and how has the performance changed?

Kin,
put one in every 4th gap, and that they all face the same way, I fitted mine with the chamfer facing outwards.
Edit: about which slot to start with---- https://endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... 00#p358949

Phase wiring I discovered by trial and error. Use a small fuse in the supply and a current meter to prevent any fireworks :wink:
Leave the phase wires fixed, you then have maximum of 6 (or is it 9) combinations of sensor connections to play with.
If you cannot get it to run well, swap two of the phase wires over and try the sensor wire combinations again.

Just a word of caution --I have not been able to test this modified motor with any significant mechanical load yet.

If your motor is the new style with the skirt bearing, it would be interesting to measure the no-load current at max rpm :D

EDIT: I have since tried one of the new style 80-100 motors, no-load was 4 amps @24v (this is quite a bit less than the new style 80-85 motor :? )

Cheers,
Burtie
Last edited by Burtie on Jul 24, 2014 6:47 pm, edited 15 times in total.

User avatar
gwhy!
100 kW
100 kW
Posts: 1230
Joined: Jan 13, 2009 8:32 am
Location: UK, Bristol

Re: Stinky -HXT -Planetary Box -Sensored Movie??

Post by gwhy! » Jan 06, 2010 7:03 pm

Burtie wrote: gwhy!,
The voltage in the video was 24.

I wonder if the stator lamination material is different in the new style 80-85 motors, the cogging seems to be very much less (perhaps only 10% ) than the older 80-100 motor that I have. Could this account for the higher no-load current?
The lamination thickness looks to be the same, and the magnets appear to be of a similar strength.

What modifications did you make to your 6 FET controller and how has the performance changed?
There is defo something different about the motors, I have put mine back on the shelf for the time being and been playing around with my smaller motor 3.2kw with halls fitted around the outside. The controller mods was upgrading the fets to IRFB3077PBF MOSFET N-CH 75V 120A , beefing up the traces, higher gauge battery and phase wires and approx halving the value of the shunt then reprogrammed the controller this is on a 48v controller and now can push 100A into the motor :twisted: ( i can up the current but i thought 100A is a good safety margin ) I also added more heatsink to the controller case ( do not get remotely warm ). The performance is just so much better over stock , the main improvements was the throttle response, and the obvious one "MORE POWER".. :wink:

User avatar
AussieJester
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 9447
Joined: Mar 11, 2008 3:33 am
Location: Perth Western Australia

Re: Stinky -HXT -Planetary Box -Sensored Movie??

Post by AussieJester » Jan 06, 2010 7:22 pm

Good to hear your drinking the 'good gear' mate LoL...but.."England V's Australia edition" haha is that old stock or is the beer company still riding on the 09 Ashes win? ...2010-11 series is in OZ Burtie, Poms dont have a hope of retaining the Ashes in Australia we is playing some good cricket :mrgreen:

Best of luck getting the bike up and running anyays Burtie...

KiM

User avatar
Burtie
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 561
Joined: Mar 27, 2009 9:45 am
Location: UK

Re: Stinky -HXT -Planetary Box -Lives again

Post by Burtie » Mar 02, 2010 6:22 pm

At last .............it lives again :D :D :D

It seems like a long time ago the HV110 controller got fried, but I have finally got around to resurrecting the bike, this time using a sensored HXT and a modified 12 FET Ecrazyman controller.


more sensored stinky.jpg
more sensored stinky.jpg (109.81 KiB) Viewed 4007 times

Although I have modified the controller (better FETS, bigger PCB tracks, Power and Phase leads) I have not yet altered the stock current limiting.
The max current at the moment is 26 amps (giving about 1200 watts). I thought I would try a few runs like this to iron out any problems, then gradually up the limit to about 5kw when I am happy everything is ok.

During test rides, the first thing I noticed was how well the bike pulls from a dead stop, even if parked on a steep hill. Previously with the sensorless ESC the startup from stopped was very violent and unpredictable, you had to carefull not to end up on your arse!


The other benefit I am expecting Is that the motor will no longer lose sync under rapid acceleration.

I will keep you posted.

Burtie
Last edited by Burtie on Jun 10, 2011 8:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
AussieJester
100 GW
100 GW
Posts: 9447
Joined: Mar 11, 2008 3:33 am
Location: Perth Western Australia

Re: Stinky -HXT -Planetary Box -Lives again

Post by AussieJester » Mar 02, 2010 6:50 pm

Burtie wrote:
Previously with the sensorless ESC the startup from stopped was very violent and unpredictable, you had to carefull not to end up on your arse!
GREAT to hear this has been solved this is the only issue i have with the HV110... looking forward to hooking the hall sensors up
and using the infineon Luke is bomb proofing for me too! I find it very difficult now to turn at low speed as i can't manipulate the throttle/speed like i need to to kep balance in a tight turn scenario, as you know tiz sketchy all or nothing type affair...LUUUUKE get back to Seattle damn you playtime is over in Costa Ricca give John backs his frock motored e-bike and come home LoL
Burtie wrote:The other benefit I am expecting Is that the motor will no longer lose sync under rapid acceleration.
This thankfully is something i didn't experience perhaps the Fechter interface helped with this? Was smoooth acceleration right from walking pac to top speed i never experienced a single loss of sync.

Look forward to updates Burtie, is it fine enough to ride now or is it still alot of white stuff on the ground in the Motherland?

KiM

Post Reply