Zibby front wheel friction drive RC

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zibbby   10 mW

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Zibby front wheel friction drive RC

Post by zibbby » Nov 24 2009 4:56pm

Hi!



First, I would like to thank you for help me started on the rc stuff in my post “Recommendation for new build rc
It took a while to build this drive, mostly because waiting for parts from hobby king.
Originally I was planning to use HXT 63-64 but after waiting six weeks I decided to change to HXT 63-74.
The build was pretty smooth and the only problem I had was the sliding mechanism .
My main idea was to be able to remove the whole system from the bicycle in minutes and be able to install the bicycle on the Rv rack without the weight of the battery, motor itc.
So I decided to mount the friction drive housing on the stainlessteel bar. It worked very nice until I installed the motor. The weight of the motor tilt the drive housing and did not slide easy. Because I had all done include painting I did not want to redesign.
To fix that, I installed little spring loded roller on the other side to compensate the weight of the motor.
The whole system works awesome, lots of power. The roller slide as much as need. the more resistance, the more it slide and digs in more.
I did install some adjusting so I can regulate how much it slide, also I can adjust my free roller idling. The is also possibility to disengage completely while riding.

I did only 30 miles on it, and the the top speed is 20mph.
The battery 8S2P 10APH . On flat without pedalling 10 miles.
The most fun is driving up the hill, it does not slow down too much.
The esc I use ICE 100. It does not get even warm. The motor gets pretty warm up the hill but not to bad. On flat it get light warm.
The sound is also very acceptable, it gets little louder when accelerate .
I can remove the hole system for the bicycle in less then two minutes.
For the best grip and the least vibration I use Innova Swiftor City Tire 2.0
The whole system include the rack is 14lbs.
ebikebag.JPG
ebikebag.JPG (311.67 KiB) Viewed 1414 times
throttle.JPG
throttle.JPG (231.93 KiB) Viewed 1364 times
inbag.JPG
inbag.JPG (272.2 KiB) Viewed 1358 times
driveinstalled.JPG
driveinstalled.JPG (253.81 KiB) Viewed 1596 times
installeddrive2.JPG
installeddrive2.JPG (151.14 KiB) Viewed 1376 times
inthebag.JPG
inthebag.JPG (248.63 KiB) Viewed 1349 times
rightside.JPG
rightside.JPG (212.66 KiB) Viewed 1531 times

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spinningmagnets   100 GW

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Re: Zibby front wheel friction drive RC

Post by spinningmagnets » Nov 24 2009 7:40pm

Great build Zibbby!
Attachments
friction_drive_zibbby.JPG
friction_drive_zibbby.JPG (82.57 KiB) Viewed 13856 times

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spinningmagnets   100 GW

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Re: Zibby front wheel friction drive RC

Post by spinningmagnets » Nov 24 2009 8:33pm

Zib, I hope you don't mind, but I'd like to link another RC-friction-drive in this thread (from EVTodd). Every E-bike configuration has its benefits and drawbacks, and these should be a good solution for some situations...

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 52&start=0
EVToddRC_FrictionDrive.jpg
EVToddRC_FrictionDrive.jpg (109.51 KiB) Viewed 12204 times
Todd calls this his "Ghetto Electric drive" (pic unavailable)

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 28&t=21097

Also, from kepler in Australia:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 28&t=16550

Image

From Solar Motion

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 28&t=14387

Image

From Drifter

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 80&start=0

Image

Drifter is very busy!!

Image

Drifters version 7.1

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 28&t=22583
DrifterFD_Ver7.jpg
DrifterFD_Ver7.jpg (61.29 KiB) Viewed 12106 times
From Bluefang

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 08&start=0

Image

From Adrian_sm

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 87&start=0

Image

from Snath...
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 28&t=19032
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 25#p293220

Image
Last edited by spinningmagnets on Jan 09 2011 7:56pm, edited 19 times in total.

zibbby   10 mW

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Re: Zibby front wheel friction drive RC

Post by zibbby » Nov 24 2009 8:43pm

spinningmagnets
Sure, I do not mind.
Why you picture shows up and mine need to be open?
I have one video on this setup but I do not know how to insert properly

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spinningmagnets   100 GW

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Re: Zibby front wheel friction drive RC

Post by spinningmagnets » Nov 24 2009 8:48pm

Your pictures are very large, but sometimes that is good to see important details better. I copied your pic, I used MS-Paint to crop some of the edge away, and then resize to a smaller image. The picture is now 600 pixels tall, and 500 wide (as an example).

If you try "preview" just before posting, it will show you what the post would look like, so you can make changes right away if you want.
Last edited by spinningmagnets on Nov 24 2009 8:53pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Grinhill   10 kW

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Re: Zibby front wheel friction drive RC

Post by Grinhill » Nov 24 2009 8:51pm

Great work, Zibby :D

I love the cradle for storing the drive inside the bag, what a great idea!

Very tidy wiring work as well, I also like the perspex bulkhead for connecting the batteries.

One thing I didn't quite get:
To fix that, I installed little spring loded roller on the other side to compensate the weight of the motor.
I was looking for something else hanging off the (opposite to motor) side of the knurled roller, but nothing there?

(BTW, if the width of your pictures is 800 pixels or less they will show up)
1995 Giant Hybrid - Zeta2 with 12V 7AH SLA - removed after one year.
2006 Converted Giant to Geared Brushless Rear Hub with 24V 17AH SLA - bike stolen 2007.
2008 Hardtail MTB Disc Brake - lightweight RC/LiPo system.
Grinhill's Medium-power RC-Motor Hardtail build
The Grinhill Mk2 RC-motor drive
Grinhill III - "Supercommuter" featuring Recumpence RC drive
Grinhilia - my Aprilia RS125 Conversion

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etard   1 MW

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Re: Zibby front wheel friction drive RC

Post by etard » Nov 24 2009 8:56pm

:shock: :shock: :shock: 8) 8) 8)

That is one cool setup Zibby!! I have a feeling this incarnation will get copied more than once. Stealth AND removable, talk about security.

It appears that your crown is split there Zib, Is that safe? I also saw alot of chewed up rubber on the brake arch, is that from the tire? Will it eat it that fast in 30 miles, or is that tire just gettting broke in? :twisted:

Very nice, a video would be killer.
Four wheels moves the body, Two wheels moves the soul
Thanks to Justin @ http://www.ebike.ca He brings the soul to ES

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spinningmagnets   100 GW

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Re: Zibby front wheel friction drive RC

Post by spinningmagnets » Nov 24 2009 9:02pm

Good to know, Grin. This pic is 800 wide...
Attachments
zibbby_RC_friction.JPG
zibbby_RC_friction.JPG (109.51 KiB) Viewed 13605 times

zibbby   10 mW

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Re: Zibby front wheel friction drive RC

Post by zibbby » Nov 24 2009 9:18pm

Grinhill
This is the spring loded roller to compesate the waight. If I was making this again I would propably use two bars to slide or wider bar so the roller would not be necessery. The problem with this bar is that is so small when the waight is on one side it just jammed.

Thank you on advice with the picture size. How would I do the video?
springroller.JPG
springroller.JPG (86.37 KiB) Viewed 13593 times

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EVTodd   10 kW

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Re: Zibby front wheel friction drive RC

Post by EVTodd » Nov 24 2009 9:27pm

Nice work Zibby! Very cool design. It's nice to see someone else enjoying friction drive.

I agree though, that fork crown is scary. I hope it just looks funny in the picture but it looks like it's ready to let loose any time. I don't want a fellow friction drive fan taking a fall before he gets to enjoy the fruits of his labor.
New Tidalforce friction drive build: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 28&t=28029

My Friction Drive Outrunner Setup: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... &start=330

zibbby   10 mW

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Re: Zibby front wheel friction drive RC

Post by zibbby » Nov 24 2009 9:38pm

The crown is not split. I had to cut little from the top of the crown so I added some aluminum to it. It actually little stronger now.
The shock are blacked because the way I mounted the sliding bar, by the way.
The dust of rubber is from setting the idler roller to light. So as it wants to slide it just spin on the tire make some dust.
Befor I took it for 10 miles trip I set it right and there was almost no dust. I just do some epermental setup up now how light I can set the free roller.


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mwkeefer   10 MW

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Re: Zibby front wheel friction drive RC

Post by mwkeefer » Nov 25 2009 1:53am

Zippy,

Really nice work man... is that right you have font and rear wheel setup now?

That is a bit klunky but damn if it's not lightweight and probably very effective.

Well done (who needs a gearing reduction, just use friction drive) what's the reduction work out to: 26.5:1 or somthing?

I have a friend with a similar installl to the rack version but he uses a pair of shocks with high rate coil springs from 1/5th scale RC car to provide tension (adjustable and all, almost better than my forks) and it serves him well...

I need to get him to shoot pictures and post, he came up with multiple friction wheels for different conditions, including one for wet weather which is made of rubber - a custom cast layered (bonded) to a small roller skate wheel, the cast is an exact negative of his tread pattern of the rear tire. When he said he solved the issue of slippage in the rain I thought - yea sure, but to my surprise... I poured water all over the rear wheel and roadway and the slip issues weren't between the drive and the tire but between teh tire and the pavement! Best hookup I've seen, drawback is they wear over a winter / rainy season and must be "resoled" but it's fairly simple.

How is your experience with slippage - any issues with wet riding?

That would make a great bolt on system for front wheel drive with appropriate fork reinforcements/clamps to distribute a bit more load - I mean you could do quick release clamps on the fork tubes to mount reinforcement rods and move from one bike to another in minutes (or less)...

Truly excellent job!

-Mike
Regards,
Mike

{My Rides]
2010 Dahon Jack - GNG v1 - LYEN 6FET - 20/40A - 18S2P10AH - Nom:66.6v,1332w
2004 Hard Rock Pro Disc - Recumpence ms eDrive v4 - Astro 3220 4T - 12S2P16AH - HV110 - Left Side Drive - Gearing: 38mph
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zibbby   10 mW

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Re: Zibby front wheel friction drive RC

Post by zibbby » Nov 30 2009 4:51pm

Thank you for comments.
So far I did not tested in wet condition.
Next month I will take this bicycle to Florida for couple weeks , we see how it works.

zibbby   10 mW

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Re: Zibby front wheel friction drive RC

Post by zibbby » Feb 08 2010 10:56pm

Came back from Florida trip, did 50 miles
The motor and drive was asome ,going strong . The best was to go on those bridges pretty steep, and no complains from motor.
I almost lost the bike , withot the drive installed.
When Parked in Miami I put the bike on the rear rack behind my Rv. There was no battery and motor installed , because I remove every time it is on the rack .
So I was sitting in my Rv with door closed, then .. tthe Rv start to shake , I tought it was gust of wind. Quicklly run to the rear and pull the shades up and what I see ? The thief is stealling my bike. He cut cheap cable lock and it could be seconnds and the bike would be gone. I scare him away And try to chase him ( on the bike he was trying to steal :D ), . It is not expensive bike but I spent lots of work for the motor mountings itc. Fom now on I install heavy duty lock..

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rkosiorek   1 MW

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Re: Zibby front wheel friction drive RC

Post by rkosiorek » Feb 17 2010 10:53pm

somehow i missed this build earlier.

i like it. very simple. do you also have an adjustment for the amount the drive roller goes into the tire?

rick
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zibbby   10 mW

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Re: Zibby front wheel friction drive RC

Post by zibbby » Feb 18 2010 5:25pm

Yes, I can adjust how much is the idler digging in the tire. With this usefull adjustment I can disgauge completly when the battery is low, or adjust exacly right pressure for optimium performance.

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spinningmagnets   100 GW

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Re: Zibby front wheel friction drive RC

Post by spinningmagnets » May 02 2012 11:38pm

from the Hobby King forum:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/foru ... =6740&PN=1
HobbyKing_FD.jpg
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spinningmagnets   100 GW

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Re: Zibby front wheel friction drive RC

Post by spinningmagnets » Dec 19 2012 3:57pm

The "friction fast" build from McDesign
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 28&t=24271
Image

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spinningmagnets   100 GW

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Re: Zibby front wheel friction drive RC

Post by spinningmagnets » Dec 19 2012 4:05pm

The "hill helper' from rearengine

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 28&t=22551
Image

one of the variations tried:
RearEngineV1.jpg
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Last edited by spinningmagnets on Sep 02 2013 1:48pm, edited 1 time in total.

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spinningmagnets   100 GW

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Re: Zibby front wheel friction drive RC

Post by spinningmagnets » Dec 19 2012 4:15pm

The "ghetto electric V4.0" from EVTodd

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 28&t=28029
Image

Image

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spinningmagnets   100 GW

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Re: Zibby front wheel friction drive RC

Post by spinningmagnets » Jul 20 2013 5:56am


justlooking   1 kW

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Re: Zibby front wheel friction drive RC

Post by justlooking » Jul 20 2013 11:09am

how quick do the tires wear with these setup ? i get the impression that they would last half the time than normal ?

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EVTodd   10 kW

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Re: Zibby front wheel friction drive RC

Post by EVTodd » Jul 20 2013 12:15pm

justlooking wrote:how quick do the tires wear with these setup ? i get the impression that they would last half the time than normal ?
That's a myth. A good friction drive setup (with no slipping) doesn't wear a tire very fast at all. Don't let the word "friction" scare you. lol :lol: Your tire has "friction" on the road too.

My last back tire (using friction drive) lasted about as long as my normal front tire. About two years in my case.
New Tidalforce friction drive build: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 28&t=28029

My Friction Drive Outrunner Setup: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... &start=330

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spinningmagnets   100 GW

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Re: Zibby front wheel friction drive RC

Post by spinningmagnets » Jul 20 2013 1:49pm

At first, I was getting unacceptable wear on my round-profile tire (fairly smooth tread, of course). All of my drives power was being focused on a thin strip down the center of the tread.

Once I took EVTodds suggestion and switched to a square-profile beach cruiser tire, everything improved. The roller was engaging across the entire tread face, instead of just in the middle of the rounded tread. My occasional slippage went to NO slippage, even under hard acceleration.

As Todd said, my rear tire seems to be wearing at the same rate as the front tire now...check the pics of his drives to see the type of square-profile I am talking about.
Last edited by spinningmagnets on Jul 20 2013 3:17pm, edited 1 time in total.

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