Dogati Electric Superleggera

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
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j3tch1u
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Dogati Superleggera

Post by j3tch1u » Mar 02, 2011 1:39 pm

liveforphysics wrote: Also, with your cap placement and wiring, its really really important you keep the wire length between the cap module and the controller PCB as short as physically possible to have it help. This will help the controller have it's best chance at life. :) If you want some of the best low ESR caps (that are in a small form-factor) that I was able to find in all my cap testing with my ESR meter, I can send a box to Frank or you for free if you want to PM me your address.
wire (16AWG) is about 1 1/2" from the mains solder joint. this is about as close as i could come while still allowing the module to be disconnected for break-downs. thank you for the generous offer re the ESR caps--will send u a pm :)

btw, tested the theoretical no-load top speeds:

11th gear wye: 124 kph @ 7.44 amps
11th gear delta: 215 kph @ 33.82 amps!!!

torque is pretty crazy already and wouldn't want to gear it down any more so i guess the only thing left to do is upgrade up my insurance :twisted:

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Re: Mag Max: compact 2-stage drive /w mag clutch brake regen

Post by rodgah » Mar 02, 2011 5:25 pm

i love the bike j3tch1u it is an absolute masterpiece.

regarding the gearing......have you got the castle data link cable? I am curious to know what the temperatures got like riding around. I think I read that yours is a 5t 3220 which is the same as what I had on my dual drive. When I tried just one motor (in an attempt to tame the bike down a little) I did a few short take offs, say 3 and around 500 meters of total run time and the temperature of the hv160 went through the roof! and thats with it geared for only 80km/h. I believe some of the heat or maybe alot was due to not being able to reduce the gear ratio as it was a single speed. So what is your no load speed in 1st gear?

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Re: Mag Max: compact 2-stage drive /w mag clutch brake regen

Post by j3tch1u » Mar 03, 2011 6:06 am

rodgah wrote:i love the bike j3tch1u it is an absolute masterpiece.

regarding the gearing......have you got the castle data link cable? I am curious to know what the temperatures got like riding around. I think I read that yours is a 5t 3220 which is the same as what I had on my dual drive. When I tried just one motor (in an attempt to tame the bike down a little) I did a few short take offs, say 3 and around 500 meters of total run time and the temperature of the hv160 went through the roof! and thats with it geared for only 80km/h. I believe some of the heat or maybe alot was due to not being able to reduce the gear ratio as it was a single speed. So what is your no load speed in 1st gear?

Cheers
cheers rodgah. i'll take temps and data off the HV160 after next ride (drizzling out today). no load speed in 1st gear is 28kph (wye) if i recall correctly. to give you some idea of the gearing on Dogati:

alfine 11:
gear range: 409%
jumps: 2 x 17% and 8 x 13%

planetary gearbox: 12:1
sprocket reduction: 20:16
pulleys: 1:1

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Re: Mag Max: compact 2-stage drive /w mag clutch brake regen

Post by j3tch1u » Mar 08, 2011 9:29 am

modified motorcycle stand:
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left controls.

from the left:
1. Hi-Lo-Off switch (respectively) delta / wye / cut-power to BEC & throttle
2. red switch turns on/off lights
3. lever for seatpost
4. lever for rear shock lock-out
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right controls: alfine 11-speed shifter and magura throttle.
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carbon-fibre looking wire shield:
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wires all tidied up and ready to roll:
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Re: Mag Max: compact 2-stage drive /w mag clutch brake regen

Post by Whiplash » Mar 08, 2011 9:43 am

Have you ridden it yet? How fast is it? How about some VIDEO! We want to see it in action! Beautiful project bike for SURE! A work of art!
Power is a fascinating thing, the more you have, the more you want, but the real power is having the restraint not to use it all at once...............Um...Yeah..

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Re: Mag Max: compact 2-stage drive /w mag clutch brake regen

Post by ghettoracer » Mar 08, 2011 1:09 pm

looks like you've been berry berry productive. =) sweet. this sat should be sun shine again. i hope we get some real sun this time!! Whiplash: the weather is uncooperative lately and it's gloomy and wet in taipei mostly. dogati isn't quite water proof so the filming will have to wait until better weather which is hopefully this coming weekend. then ben has promised his pals/gals to wear some leather tights for the video shoot. haha j/k. :mrgreen:

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Re: Mag Max: compact 2-stage drive /w mag clutch brake regen

Post by j3tch1u » Mar 08, 2011 2:50 pm

ghettoracer wrote:looks like you've been berry berry productive. =) sweet. this sat should be sun shine again. i hope we get some real sun this time!! Whiplash: the weather is uncooperative lately and it's gloomy and wet in taipei mostly. dogati isn't quite water proof so the filming will have to wait until better weather which is hopefully this coming weekend. then ben has promised his pals/gals to wear some leather tights for the video shoot. haha j/k. :mrgreen:
yep burning the midnight oil as usual. just finished topping off the pack and keeping fingers crossed for tomorrow. frank, it's not the rain i'm worried about--dogati is not water-proofed against virgins who wet their pants on their first lectric ride :lol:

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Re: Mag Max: compact 2-stage drive /w mag clutch brake regen

Post by dodjob » Mar 08, 2011 5:27 pm

OMG O_O this is definitively the beautifulest bike I ever seen.. cannot wait to see it driving!!!
Very impressive finish! congrats!
Gruß,
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Re: Mag Max: compact 2-stage drive /w mag clutch brake regen

Post by Whiplash » Mar 09, 2011 4:13 pm

WELL? did it run OK?? WE NEED TO KNOW!!!! LOL! :D
Power is a fascinating thing, the more you have, the more you want, but the real power is having the restraint not to use it all at once...............Um...Yeah..

The harder you work.....The luckier you get!!

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Re: Mag Max: compact 2-stage drive /w mag clutch brake regen

Post by j3tch1u » Mar 10, 2011 12:29 am

Whiplash wrote:WELL? did it run OK?? WE NEED TO KNOW!!!! LOL! :D
took it out yesterday with my friend ghettoracer helmed with the video camera. after a few short runs, my throttle stuck open and i lost control of the bike (the flange on the grips i put on the magura throttle was pressed against the throttle and didn't spring back). wheelie'd and dragged my ass under the rear end of a parked car. no damage to the car and only got a busted spoke and scratched rim. i got away with skinned shins and a bruised ego :oops: got back on the bike, kicked the forks straight and we proceeded to film some 65 k'ish runs except...i found out when i got back that the camera was set on very low resolution. i have to say, in 1st and 2nd gear, the bike is a coiled death machine ready to spring. i have the HV160 set on Low (2) start-up but looks like i'll have to lower that to 1. starting in 6th feels a lot more comfortable to both ghettoracer and myself.

later in the day we went to go meet up with a an old motorcycle racing buddy (he's 64 now but in his younger days he's done 8min long 335kph speed runs and even survived a 240kph highway accident). i lead the way with ghettoracer in tow on his 50cc scooter. on the way, there was this long line of cars stopped at a traffic light, so i decided to cross the double-yellow. at the light there happened to be a cop so i immediately starting cranking the pedals. he didn't give me a second look however...g was following me and was stopped by the cop. ended up just giving him a stern warning. we met our friend at the mrt station (he was on a scooter as well). he proceeded to cut through the front of the station when lo and behold there was a different cop which pulled him over now (and didn't give me a second look). my friend knew the precinct chief so he just let him off with a smile and a wave.

on the way back home, i heard a snap and lost traction to the drive--wasn't sure what broke at the time. pedalled the bike home and became a lot more familiar with the alfine shifter :oops: at home, i took the drive apart and found out that the 12mm gearbox-to-dual freewheel shaft had totally snapped around the region i cut a groove for the circlip. sooo...it looks like i will need to upgrade the gearbox and shaft. the rear wheel had also shifted...so look like i still need to make the torque blocks for the dropout.

all-in-all, we had a blast. tons of interest from random street people. haven't nearly tested the limits of this bike and i'm sure many other things will break but it will eventually improve in reliability incrementally. to me, the joy is in the journey :D

the video was such poor quality i decided not to post it. sorry for the delay guys--it will be forthcoming.

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Re: Mag Max: compact 2-stage drive /w mag clutch brake regen

Post by j3tch1u » Mar 10, 2011 12:35 am

hmmm...it must have shrunk in the wash
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Re: Mag Max: compact 2-stage drive /w mag clutch brake regen

Post by j3tch1u » Mar 10, 2011 12:41 am

gramps was quite fond of my bike. after he asked us a million and one questions he proceeded to recite his entire life story and life stories of his kids :|
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Re: Mag Max: compact 2-stage drive /w mag clutch brake regen

Post by j3tch1u » Mar 10, 2011 12:43 am

finally some daylight shots
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Re: Mag Max: compact 2-stage drive /w mag clutch brake regen

Post by j3tch1u » Mar 10, 2011 12:47 am

sad busted shaft and shaft nub. i think it still would've broke even if i hadn't weakened it with the circlip groove (gives himself reassuring pat on the back).
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Re: Mag Max: compact 2-stage drive /w mag clutch brake regen

Post by amberwolf » Mar 10, 2011 1:02 am

FWIW, the only motor shaft I've broken so far was also at a circlip groove, back on DayGlo Avenger's 2nd friction drive.

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Re: Mag Max: compact 2-stage drive /w mag clutch brake regen

Post by j3tch1u » Mar 10, 2011 7:08 am

amberwolf wrote:FWIW, the only motor shaft I've broken so far was also at a circlip groove, back on DayGlo Avenger's 2nd friction drive.
maybe it has something to do with breaking the hardened shaft surface? i can't move the circlip but i can bump the shaft size up to 20mm.

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Re: Mag Max: compact 2-stage drive /w mag clutch brake regen

Post by liveforphysics » Mar 10, 2011 8:12 am

j3tch1u wrote:
amberwolf wrote:FWIW, the only motor shaft I've broken so far was also at a circlip groove, back on DayGlo Avenger's 2nd friction drive.
maybe it has something to do with breaking the hardened shaft surface? i can't move the circlip but i can bump the shaft size up to 20mm.

Some alloys and tempers suffer from it more or less than others, but if you Google "notch sensitivity", you can read about the stress riser work hardening effects that cause many material failures.
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Re: Mag Max: compact 2-stage drive /w mag clutch brake regen

Post by Whiplash » Mar 10, 2011 9:53 am

Re make the shaft out of 300M steel and never look back, if you like to, make it the 20mm thicker if you can fit it, and you will never break it again...

Now that I can see the bike next to its bigger brother, I am VERY impressed with the design and overall look!! Unbelievable quality! Like an OEM would do it!
Power is a fascinating thing, the more you have, the more you want, but the real power is having the restraint not to use it all at once...............Um...Yeah..

The harder you work.....The luckier you get!!

"People who say it can't be done are often interrupted by those that have already figured out how to do it!"

Email me @ currentcycles@gmail.com
OR check out http://www.CurrentCycles.net

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Re: Mag Max: compact 2-stage drive /w mag clutch brake regen

Post by j3tch1u » Mar 10, 2011 3:17 pm

liveforphysics wrote:
j3tch1u wrote:
amberwolf wrote:FWIW, the only motor shaft I've broken so far was also at a circlip groove, back on DayGlo Avenger's 2nd friction drive.
maybe it has something to do with breaking the hardened shaft surface? i can't move the circlip but i can bump the shaft size up to 20mm.

Some alloys and tempers suffer from it more or less than others, but if you Google "notch sensitivity", you can read about the stress riser work hardening effects that cause many material failures.
luke, i see that even being in asia surrounded by hot women you are still addicted to es!

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Re: Mag Max: compact 2-stage drive /w mag clutch brake regen

Post by j3tch1u » Mar 10, 2011 3:26 pm

Whiplash wrote:Re make the shaft out of 300M steel and never look back, if you like to, make it the 20mm thicker if you can fit it, and you will never break it again...

Now that I can see the bike next to its bigger brother, I am VERY impressed with the design and overall look!! Unbelievable quality! Like an OEM would do it!
i'm going to redo the gearbox using way heavier rated gears/shafts and hopefully be done with that (and make something else break) :twisted:

still wanting to put the sprag clutches in for frictionless pedalling so i'm gonna try welding two of them together and cut threads for the freewheels across the conjoined twins.

this bike is an obsession--i won't stop til i can squeeze every last ounce of perfection out of it :!:

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Re: Mag Max: compact 2-stage drive /w mag clutch brake regen

Post by Whiplash » Mar 10, 2011 3:35 pm

j3tch1u wrote:
Whiplash wrote:Re make the shaft out of 300M steel and never look back, if you like to, make it the 20mm thicker if you can fit it, and you will never break it again...

Now that I can see the bike next to its bigger brother, I am VERY impressed with the design and overall look!! Unbelievable quality! Like an OEM would do it!
i'm going to redo the gearbox using way heavier rated gears/shafts and hopefully be done with that (and make something else break) :twisted:

still wanting to put the sprag clutches in for frictionless pedalling so i'm gonna try welding two of them together and cut threads for the freewheels across the conjoined twins.

this bike is an obsession--i won't stop til i can squeeze every last ounce of perfection out of it :!:

THAT, my friend is very obvious! The quality shows!
Power is a fascinating thing, the more you have, the more you want, but the real power is having the restraint not to use it all at once...............Um...Yeah..

The harder you work.....The luckier you get!!

"People who say it can't be done are often interrupted by those that have already figured out how to do it!"

Email me @ currentcycles@gmail.com
OR check out http://www.CurrentCycles.net

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Re: Mag Max: compact 2-stage drive /w mag clutch brake regen

Post by Whiplash » Mar 10, 2011 3:37 pm

You should hit up Ducati and see if they want to offer an electric bike! You might get to lead the design team!
Power is a fascinating thing, the more you have, the more you want, but the real power is having the restraint not to use it all at once...............Um...Yeah..

The harder you work.....The luckier you get!!

"People who say it can't be done are often interrupted by those that have already figured out how to do it!"

Email me @ currentcycles@gmail.com
OR check out http://www.CurrentCycles.net

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Re: Mag Max: compact 2-stage drive /w mag clutch brake regen

Post by AussieJester » Mar 10, 2011 5:32 pm

j3tch1u wrote: luke, i see that even being in asia surrounded by hot women you are still addicted to es!
He lives in California now i doubt Asia has alot to offer he ain't already seen LoL, he always seems tobe surrounded by and/or hanging our of hot wiminez, he's a bit of a womanizer is our boy Luke ;-P :mrgreen:

Glad to hear you and the bike are mostly ok j3tch1u, few little 'glitches' to sort
often the case for custom built bikes i have found ;-)

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Re: Mag Max: compact 2-stage drive /w mag clutch brake regen

Post by kfong » Mar 10, 2011 5:52 pm

Ben, I’ve been following your build from the beginning. Love your work, all of it has been first rate. Great to see the latest pics and how much fun you are having riding it. I can’t wait till winter is over here so I can get out riding as well.

Kim, I think Luke is out by Ben’s side of the world from one of his recent posts.

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Re: Mag Max: compact 2-stage drive /w mag clutch brake regen

Post by WhiteCollarJunkie » Mar 10, 2011 6:14 pm

Hi, everyone. I'm new to the board and have been lurking for quite some time. I hadn't planned on posting until I had something to contribute, but I have to chime in to give you props, Ben. You've done a hell of a job. Thanks for taking the time to share.

Cheers,
Jason

But guys, have some compassion. With every picture and video you guys post, you are pushing me one step closer to my death, cause I know my wife is gonna kill me for spending so much money to get my hands on one of these things. :shock:

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