Best internal gear hub?

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johnrobholmes   1.21 GW

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Re: Best internal gear hub?

Post by johnrobholmes » Aug 05 2010 8:42am

Forgot to mention the NuVinci is also in the running for install. I just hate that it is even heavier than the alfine :lol:


Seems that the nuvinci may be the stoutest setup, but likely not the most efficient. I can't decide between lacing the hub into a wheel or using it as a jackshaft.

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Miles   100 GW

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Re: Best internal gear hub?

Post by Miles » Aug 05 2010 8:46am

johnrobholmes wrote:Forgot to mention the NuVinci is also in the running for install. I just hate that it is even heavier than the alfine :lol:
It's heavier than many hub motors....... :)

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johnrobholmes   1.21 GW

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Re: Best internal gear hub?

Post by johnrobholmes » Aug 05 2010 9:04am

C'mon man, I don't want realism here! I want a pat on the back telling me it will all be just fine :lol: :lol:

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Miles   100 GW

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Re: Best internal gear hub?

Post by Miles » Aug 05 2010 9:09am

:mrgreen:

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drewjet   10 kW

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Re: Best internal gear hub?

Post by drewjet » Aug 05 2010 10:30am

The problem with the alfine, is it appears to be dificult to dual drive it with a motor sprocket and a peddle sprocket. Unless you plan on driving the front chainring.

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Re: Best internal gear hub?

Post by gogo » Aug 05 2010 1:53pm

I just noticed that the Sturmey-Archer 2 speed hub has direct drive in 1st gear. This is different than the old yellow and red band Bendix hubs for 24 & 26 inch wheels, but the same as the blue band for 20 inch. I suppose direct drive 1st gear might be good for setups that have higher acceleration loads than cruising loads. I remember feeling the mesh of the planetary gears on my old Schwinn Racer at take-off.

Code: Select all

Gear Ratio

• Overall Range - 138%
• Gear 1 - 100% Direct Drive
• Gear 2 - 138% (+)38% (Gear 1 + 38%)
http://www.sturmey-archer.com/products/ ... 57/specs/1
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MitchJi   1 GW

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Re: Best internal gear hub?

Post by MitchJi » Aug 05 2010 3:46pm

Hi John,
johnrobholmes wrote:Forgot to mention the NuVinci is also in the running for install. I just hate that it is even heavier than the alfine
Are you aware of the new lighter NuVinci? It's heavier than the alfine but not massively heavier (alfine 3.5 lbs vs new NuVinci 5.5 lbs)?

It is supposed to be available July-August 2010. According to their tech support it's supposed to be as strong as the older model. More info here:
New lighter Nu Vinci CVT
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 28&t=17895
Best Wishes!

Mitch


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johnrobholmes   1.21 GW

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Re: Best internal gear hub?

Post by johnrobholmes » Aug 05 2010 3:52pm

Just saw the alfine has that centerlock disc design. Ewwww. That puts it out of the question as a mid bike gearbox.

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Miles   100 GW

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Re: Best internal gear hub?

Post by Miles » Aug 05 2010 4:24pm


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johnrobholmes   1.21 GW

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Re: Best internal gear hub?

Post by johnrobholmes » Aug 05 2010 4:53pm

I have some of the adapters. The downfall of the centerlock is that you can't put high torque to it, nothing larger than 6" rotors are recommended. My idea was to drive the cog side with the motor and pedals, and shoot the power from the disc side to the rear of the bike.

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Miles   100 GW

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Re: Best internal gear hub?

Post by Miles » Aug 05 2010 5:05pm

How much torque were you intending to put through it, then....? :shock:

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Re: Best internal gear hub?

Post by johnrobholmes » Aug 05 2010 5:15pm

Either a 50kv Shumaker/Astro 3230 or custom 44xx framed motor, other details (amps, volts) to be determined. Since the hub is planned to be mid drive, it will be spinning faster and take more power than if it were in the rear wheel.

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Re: Best internal gear hub?

Post by dumbluck » Aug 17 2010 10:42pm

has anyone looked at using the v-boxx by sun tour or g-boxx set up. I believe this might be a great way to do a jack shaft shifting dual input setup

replace the cranks with sprockets or pulleys and just add another bottom bracket. If I can get one its next on the list of build item.shttp://www.g-boxx.com/

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boostjuice   10 kW

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Re: Best internal gear hub?

Post by boostjuice » Aug 17 2010 11:16pm

If you're willing to spend the cash and deal with the frame issues then i think its a great idea. If the stealth bike was available ex-factory with an RC drive feeding it's G-boxx to utilize the gearing i think it would be the ultimate all-terrain setup.

I got the following quote on G-boxxes on 08 Jan 2009.
875 euros for one sample piece

699 euros for 5 pieces and up

best reg
Karlheinz Nicolai
NICOLAI GMBH Külftalstr. 18
31093 Lübbrechtsen
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Re: Best internal gear hub?

Post by dumbluck » Aug 18 2010 9:50pm

still no reply from several emails sent to them but sounds likes its to expensive I wonder if I could coble something together like it.

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Re: Best internal gear hub?

Post by Hillhater » Aug 18 2010 10:15pm

johnrobholmes wrote:... Since the hub is planned to be mid drive, it will be spinning faster and take more power than if it were in the rear wheel.
..actually, if the hub is spinning faster then it will be transmitting the SAME POWER but LESS TORQUE, and it is the torque that will destroy the gears.
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

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Miles   100 GW

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Re: Best internal gear hub?

Post by Miles » Aug 19 2010 2:22am

Hillhater wrote:
johnrobholmes wrote:... Since the hub is planned to be mid drive, it will be spinning faster and take more power than if it were in the rear wheel.
..actually, if the hub is spinning faster then it will be transmitting the SAME POWER but LESS TORQUE, and it is the torque that will destroy the gears.
I guess it could have been put more precisely but, it was clear to me that "take" was being used as "withstand" or "handle", in the context. :)

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Re: Best internal gear hub?

Post by northernmike » Aug 19 2010 4:38pm

FYI - forget Sturmey Archer 5 speed hubs. I have had crap luck with my 2008 XRD5 and am going to replace it... a costly option on a $1400 Pashley Roadster.

SA hubs cannot be shifted under load without damage, so I would rule them out for motor-power use, unless you plan to throttle for it ... all the time..

Nexus is the way to go. The 4 speeds are great too, just harder to find these days.

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Nanoha   100 W

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Re: Best internal gear hub?

Post by Nanoha » Aug 31 2010 7:23am

I'm planning on getting a shimano alfine 8, I realize that it has lock washers but for our purposes :twisted:
are torque arms necessary?

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Re: Best internal gear hub?

Post by Hillhater » Aug 31 2010 8:49am

Miles wrote:
Hillhater wrote:
johnrobholmes wrote:... Since the hub is planned to be mid drive, it will be spinning faster and take more power than if it were in the rear wheel.
..actually, if the hub is spinning faster then it will be transmitting the SAME POWER but LESS TORQUE, and it is the torque that will destroy the gears.
I guess it could have been put more precisely but, it was clear to me that "take" was being used as "withstand" or "handle", in the context. :)
My point was that in a transmission, higher rpm's reduce the torque proportionately .
so if Johns mid drive unit is spinning at say double the rpm of the road wheel, it will only be "handling" half the torque loading that the road wheel hub handles....and it is the torque that causes damage .
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

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Miles   100 GW

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Re: Best internal gear hub?

Post by Miles » Aug 31 2010 9:12am

Hillhater wrote: My point was that in a transmission, higher rpm's reduce the torque proportionately .
so if Johns mid drive unit is spinning at say double the rpm of the road wheel, it will only be "handling" half the torque loading that the road wheel hub handles....and it is the torque that causes damage .
You've failed to get the pragmatics of both John and me :)

What you are saying is implicit in John's sentence.

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Miles   100 GW

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Re: Best internal gear hub?

Post by Miles » Aug 31 2010 9:57am

Meanwhile...... this looks interesting: http://www.pinion.eu/en/index.html

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Re: Best internal gear hub?

Post by grandmasterE » Aug 31 2010 11:55am

johnrobholmes wrote:I have some of the adapters. The downfall of the centerlock is that you can't put high torque to it, nothing larger than 6" rotors are recommended. My idea was to drive the cog side with the motor and pedals, and shoot the power from the disc side to the rear of the bike.

Shimano makes centerlock rotors larger than 6", and in fact the Saint freeride groupo uses centerlock rotors. I don't think it's likely that anyone will be accelerating faster than those brakes are cabable of stopping, so I'm going to venture a guess that they're more than up to the task.

E

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Re: Best internal gear hub?

Post by Hillhater » Aug 31 2010 5:44pm

Miles wrote:
Hillhater wrote: My point was that in a transmission, higher rpm's reduce the torque proportionately .
so if Johns mid drive unit is spinning at say double the rpm of the road wheel, it will only be "handling" half the torque loading that the road wheel hub handles....and it is the torque that causes damage .
You've failed to get the pragmatics of both John and me :)

What you are saying is implicit in John's sentence.
:oops: :oops: Ahh ! ..OK , re-reading the original a few times , it all becomes clear ! :shock:
I guess its one of those statements that you can read either way but makes perfect sense once it is in your head !!
( glad we are all on the same wavelength re the mechanics though.. !
.. carry on ..(whilst i slink away and hide in the corner :oops: )
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Miles   100 GW

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Re: Best internal gear hub?

Post by Miles » Aug 31 2010 5:57pm

Don't worry, it's the kind of mistake I'm always making :)
It's a bit like this:

Image

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