My e-KMX

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
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Beuhji
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My e-KMX

Post by Beuhji » Aug 24, 2010 1:21 pm

Hi guys !

Components :
=> Frame : KMX Tornado (from Amazon)
=> Motor : Turnigy 80-100-B (from Hobby City)
=> Controler : Castle Creations ICE 160HV, with Castle link (from PSLV Modelisme)
=> Throttle : Turnigy Servo tester with 5kOhm throttle (replacement of the 10kOhm potentiometer with 5kOhm resistor and 5kOhm throttle)
=> Battery : LiPo 12S4P 20Ah (8x Turnigy 6S 5Ah) (from Hobby City)
=> Primary gearing : 2/1 HTD 5M 15mm pulleys (24 / 48 teeth) 330 mm belt (from radiospares particulier)
=> Secondary gearing : 3,6/1 #25 chain, one way needles bearing for freewheel (from electric scooter parts)
=> Lights/wireless indicators : Bicygnals
=> Charger : Hyperion EOS 0615i DUO3 (it permit me to charge my 12S pack by one time at 360W)

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Throttle (activated by little finger), left indicator switch and mirror

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Circuit breaker (with auxiliary contacts for BEC) and servo tester with wire from throttle to replace potentiometer

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My drive unit with the freewheel which is still alive even if sometimes she is blocked in the two ways :D

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Rear sprocket with #25 chain (not broken for instance :shock: )

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Paralleling equalizer plugs and power (16 mm² outputs with strong photovoltaic wire)

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Glued rear sprocket (wrong way screwed disk patern) with very strong resin (DELO-PUR 9694 http://www.delo.de/datenblatt/DELO-PUR_ ... -GB%29.pdf)

Last edited by Beuhji on Oct 31, 2010 5:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.

My eKMX : https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 28&t=20961

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Re: My e-KMX

Post by Beuhji » Aug 25, 2010 6:58 am

After technical means, technical results !

=> Top speed : about 73 km/h (even when climbing 10% roads !)
=> Maximum power measured : 5300W
=> Consumption : about 25 Wh/km
=> Weight : 35 kg

Main issues :

=> Belt slipping, belt destruction : I have replaced T5 timing belt and 15/30 teeth pulleys by an HTD 5M belt and 24/48 teeth pulleys. It has doesn't avoided slipping but considerably reduced it, complementary solution is Matt's splipper clutch ...

=> Belt and chain tension leakage : First tensioners but not reliable, finally Modification of ball bearing position (strongly prestressed) and replacement of the mounting piece (wood to steel :roll: ).

=> Freewheel locking : no solution at this time, she is realy too light, I must find some bicycle freewheel to 15 mm shaft adapter ... or buy Matt's V3 drive :twisted:

=> ESC exploding (with 2 Turnigy Monsters 2000): This ESC is not functional, exploding on first pluging for the two units. DONT BUY IT !!!

=> ESC exploding (with Castle Creations one): Yes, I must add caps like is written everywhere on this forum I know ... Do you know how many times it take to Castle Creations to replace my 160HV ???

=> Right signal switch on when i throttle up ! Due to EM perturbations, i have added ferrite tores and use screened cables but nothing is working ...

I juste want to say Thank You to all of guys on this forum, you are all crazy but greats engineers !


Image
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.

My eKMX : https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 28&t=20961

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Re: My e-KMX

Post by recumpence » Aug 25, 2010 7:13 am

Looks great! This is pretty much a do-it-yourself version of my KMX drive unit, frame mounts and all! I am glad you got it running.

#1 Yes, you have capacitance issues. Your one cap blew. You need more caps.

#2 You need a chain drive to handle the torque.

#3 A clutch would eliminate the blown controllers and belt problems if it is adjusted well.

#4 If you want a drive unit, I make KMX frame mounts and torque arms as well. It is a direct bolt-on system on this situation.

Matt
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Re: My e-KMX

Post by knoxie » Aug 25, 2010 3:41 pm

Hey

Nice work!! I am really worrying about these RC controllers they all seem to be going to hell? has anyone had one last longer than it takes to wear the knobbles off your tyres? :lol: I think we should all start calling these things "Frock controllers" :mrgreen:

Squint and you wont see the burnt mess Deec...and you Kim!! good luck with yours when you get it back :? :? I will ship you an old hub motor Kim for when it inevitably goes again ;-) Frock Controllers :mrgreen:
Electric KMX 72V Lipo, USPD drive unit. BMX 72V, Puma BMC,
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Re: My e-KMX

Post by recumpence » Aug 25, 2010 4:29 pm

It is not the controllers, but how they are used that matters. I agree they are a bit fragile. But, hey, look how small they are! If treated right, RC controllers last.

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Re: My e-KMX

Post by knoxie » Aug 25, 2010 5:40 pm

Hi Matt

Yes they are small but they all seem to go south far too easy from what I can make out :? far too many folks seem to be able to blow them without even trying too hard ? I think that in time they may be useful but for me I wouldnt trust them and whilst I do love the RC builds for what they can do I dont like the reliability issues that seem to be cropping up. It seems lots of folks are dipping their toes in to the the water with RC builds and spending a lot of money and having big problems, Timas, Kim, Deec, this guy and many more all have had controller and other issues with very little running time.

I know its an evolving trend however I feel that parts of the system (not your mechanical parts) simply are not there yet for your man in the street if you like.

I think its fair to flag this up as some fans of RC setups prod a lot of fun at hub motors et al which is wrong and may steer folks down the RC path which I think is in its infancy this may end up costing people lots of money with little return, possibly putting them off the idea of an assist again, when they could have got a 9C motor from justin and have thousands of trouble free miles running still at decent speeds.

I think that people need to be well aware of what they are getting in to, I know it would put me off controllers and motors puffing out on me all the time and I love messing with all this stuff.

This build is a nice rig by the way however a 9C in the rear running at 72V would have produced very similar top end speed, be far simpler with high reliability and super stealth, giving more room to stash the batteries under the seat.

Just my tuppence worth!

Knoxie
Electric KMX 72V Lipo, USPD drive unit. BMX 72V, Puma BMC,
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Re: My e-KMX

Post by dontsendbubbamail » Aug 25, 2010 8:52 pm

Beuhji wrote: => Freewheel locking : no solution at this time, she is realy too light, I must find some bicycle freewheel to 15 mm shaft adapter ... or buy Matt's V3 drive :twisted:
Maybe this is what you are looking for. Staton 15 mm shaft adapter

Bubba

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Re: My e-KMX

Post by AussieJester » Aug 25, 2010 9:09 pm

"ESC exploding (with Castle Creations one): Yes, I must add caps like is written everywhere on this forum I know ... Do you know how many times it take to Castle Creations to replace my 160HV "

Sure do...just recieved an email from Castle Creations tech support...i am looking at 3-4 weeks to get a paid replacement warranty.

"The main thing is that we do not have any of these controllers in stock
and have a little bit of a wait time until we can fill your order and we
will swap that out for a new one. It looks like we are going to have a
wait time of about 3-4weeks until we have some of those coming to stock.
So as soon as we can we will fill and ship your order.

Sincerely,

Charles Chase
Castle Creations
Repair Department
(913)-390-6939 Ext.2"


Good news though i am getting replacement as mine is non-repairable...so...after paying for a new hv160 each additional will only cost
135 bucks pretty good support from Castle IMO.

knoxie, one day you might get it, after seeing your "experience" and efforts on the video with Deec though i fear it will be later ...alot later...rather than sooner ..... :roll: By all means, Send the frock motor my way pal nothing would give me more pleasure than cutting it up into dozens of pieces and posting it back.

KiM

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Re: My e-KMX

Post by recumpence » Aug 25, 2010 9:40 pm

knoxie wrote:Hi Matt

Yes they are small but they all seem to go south far too easy from what I can make out :? far too many folks seem to be able to blow them without even trying too hard ? I think that in time they may be useful but for me I wouldnt trust them and whilst I do love the RC builds for what they can do I dont like the reliability issues that seem to be cropping up. It seems lots of folks are dipping their toes in to the the water with RC builds and spending a lot of money and having big problems, Timas, Kim, Deec, this guy and many more all have had controller and other issues with very little running time.

I know its an evolving trend however I feel that parts of the system (not your mechanical parts) simply are not there yet for your man in the street if you like.

I think its fair to flag this up as some fans of RC setups prod a lot of fun at hub motors et al which is wrong and may steer folks down the RC path which I think is in its infancy this may end up costing people lots of money with little return, possibly putting them off the idea of an assist again, when they could have got a 9C motor from justin and have thousands of trouble free miles running still at decent speeds.

I think that people need to be well aware of what they are getting in to, I know it would put me off controllers and motors puffing out on me all the time and I love messing with all this stuff.

This build is a nice rig by the way however a 9C in the rear running at 72V would have produced very similar top end speed, be far simpler with high reliability and super stealth, giving more room to stash the batteries under the seat.

Just my tuppence worth!

Knoxie
What you need to understand is, people mention when they have a problem, but rarely when they have success. For example, the Astro group buy saw somewhere around 35 motors sold. However, have you even seen any of those post build threads? No. I have sold somewhere around 80 motors in the last year (along with nearly that many controllers for them). However, very few of them have emailed me with issues. Remember, problems get posted, successes do not.

I actually do steer people away from RC builds if they are not technically inclined. That is not a problem.

I do agree the hub motor bashing gets to be a bit much. However, I am also tired of RC stuff getting bashed by those who do not own one. For one thing, generally, once an RC build gets assembled, the user gets hooked on the power and wants more, and more, and more, and more. So, eventually they blow a controller. If a system is setup correctly and the wattage is kept below 5kw with a good controller, RC builds last. I have over 300 miles on my trike, 1,100 miles on my recumbent, and I have sold 4 trikes to locals who have never blown a controller in thousands of miles.

Again, to repeat, blown stuff gets posted, successes generally don't. I am not saying RC stuff is super durable. I am saying, if setup and used properly, these systems do last.

Matt
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Re: My e-KMX

Post by drewjet » Aug 26, 2010 1:29 am

recumpence wrote: What you need to understand is, people mention when they have a problem, but rarely when they have success. For example, the Astro group buy saw somewhere around 35 motors sold. However, have you even seen any of those post build threads? No. I have sold somewhere around 80 motors in the last year (along with nearly that many controllers for them). However, very few of them have emailed me with issues. Remember, problems get posted, successes do not.


Matt
Mine is posted https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 17#p244317

Nice trike by the way.

My secret to a successful RC build is extra caps, and always peddle to get it rolling. Never chug it (High power low throttle).

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Re: My e-KMX

Post by knoxie » Aug 26, 2010 2:21 am

Yo

Its funny how protective folks get over their RC builds :wink: ha ha I am like I said just saying what I see here Matt thats all? I know Deec isnt so sure he has made the right choice yet? the Jury is out with him until he gets some miles and less smoke under his belt.

Kim you are number 1 when it comes to hub motor bashing :P you got to take it if you can give it out!! 8) for me the week link is the controllers at the moment not the motors as such as you, a lot of the motor burn outs have been when they have been over stressed which is to be expected.

My main point is I see more failures with them at the moment compared to normal hub systems on here which considering their relative rarity compared to hub motor builds is my concern :? maybe there are folks with reliable systems but surely they would also post as well?

I am only saying what I am seeing guys? at the moment I still stand by what I see thus far, at the end of the day folks like Castle are not designing this stuff to be used in the way that folks are using it, huge motors that would normally only be spinning a prop on a plane but out there in 150mph wind may be fine, but all this kit was never designed to sit under a trike in 40 deg temps with hardly any air hurtling someone along? So it aint no surprise stuff breaks I guess.

Anyway I think this has side tracked this thread long enough! and also lets stop this silly name calling that has sprouted up around hub motors as at the moment, the RC controllers are the Frock controllers, I would much rather have fast and reliable machines than Expensive, Broken and unreliable ones.... :mrgreen: dont bite me :P

Laters
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Re: My e-KMX

Post by Beuhji » Aug 26, 2010 6:27 am

AussieJester wrote: Sure do...just recieved an email from Castle Creations tech support...i am looking at 3-4 weeks to get a paid replacement warranty.


Good news though i am getting replacement as mine is non-repairable...so...after paying for a new hv160 each additional will only cost
135 bucks pretty good support from Castle IMO.

KiM
THX Kim ! I'm waiting for this mail :D


dontsendbubbamail wrote:Maybe this is what you are looking for. Staton 15 mm shaft adapter

Bubba

Thanks Bubba for your link it is exactly what I seach ! Now do you know where I can find a rear sprockets for bicycle chain with 6 holes disk mounting around 54 teeth ? How many teeth has Matt's one ???

Image
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.

My eKMX : https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 28&t=20961

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Re: My e-KMX

Post by recumpence » Aug 26, 2010 7:01 am

I make an adaptor for 130mm BCD chainrings to mount to the 6 bolt disc brake flange. You can PM me if interested. :)

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Re: My e-KMX

Post by Ypedal » Aug 26, 2010 7:51 am

Awsome trike Beuhji !!!.. well done ! 8)

I run the HV110, have not yet blown it up, i do run fechter's throttle box that has caps built in and have not added any extras....

but i worry about it all the time, always pedal off a dead stop before applying throttle and always start in lowest possible gear to get things revving..

Any less than 50% throttle the little HV gets too hot for comfort, so i keep the revs up at the cost of efficiency, recharging is cheap, replacing controllers is not. :|
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Re: My e-KMX

Post by torker » Aug 26, 2010 9:55 am

Very nice build. It seems to be the quietest rc setup I have seen. Once you get the good extra caps,maybe a slipper clutch you will be good to go. Nice engineering job on that :D
Dave When I die I want to slide in sideways yelling WooHoo what a ride !

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Re: My e-KMX

Post by dontsendbubbamail » Aug 26, 2010 10:58 am

Beuhji wrote: Thanks Bubba for your link it is exactly what I seach ! Now do you know where I can find a rear sprockets for bicycle chain with 6 holes disk mounting around 54 teeth ? How many teeth has Matt's one ???
I think Matt would be the best choice for the adaptor. You still need the gear, also know as a front chain wheel. 52 and 53 tooth chain wheels are common and can be purchsed from many internet sources. There are several bolt circle diameters (BCD) for chain wheels, so just be sure you getting the one Matt specifies. If you have to have 54 teeth or more, there are companies that will custome make one for you, but I don't have a source.

Bubba

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Re: My e-KMX

Post by Beuhji » Aug 26, 2010 1:51 pm

Thanks all, I am very interested by your adapter Matt ... or by your complete drive. I am affraid that my drive unit especially ball bearings die fast. They are too much stressed. I am also very interested by a slipper clutch ... Hummm I'll go sell some drugs to buy your drive Matt :P
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Re: My e-KMX

Post by Beuhji » Sep 06, 2010 6:07 am

I just got a mail from Castle Creations ! They says that my Phoenix ICE 160HV is taken under warranty and they send me a brand new one for $0 :mrgreen: I love amercian buisness ! My two Turnigy monster 2000 returned to HK from june are even ... somewhere beyond the seas ... :roll:
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.

My eKMX : https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 28&t=20961

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Re: My e-KMX

Post by Byte » Sep 06, 2010 6:33 am

Beuhji wrote:I just got a mail from Castle Creations ! They says that my Phoenix ICE 160HV is taken under warranty and they send me a brand new one for $0 :mrgreen: I love amercian buisness ! My two Turnigy monster 2000 returned to HK from june are even ... somewhere beyond the seas ... :roll:
Wow that's cool! I think you are very lucky there :)

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Re: My e-KMX

Post by Beuhji » Sep 24, 2010 12:48 pm

My brand new Castle Creations Phoenix ICE HV160 for 0$ !!!

OK guys, it is about try to not re-smoke this little jewel :mrgreen:

I have bought five Panasonic 50V 1000µF low ESR capacitors (ref : Panasonic EEUFM1H102 ), they are big and put four of them closest as possible from the controler will be a difficult job !

Is someone as photos or explainations of how they do that stuff ? The existing capacitors are sealed with resin !

Thanks all !!!

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I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.

My eKMX : https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 28&t=20961

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Re: My e-KMX

Post by recumpence » Sep 24, 2010 1:36 pm

Just solder them to the power input leads (red and black wires) while leaving the 470uf caps in place.

Matt
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Re: My e-KMX

Post by Beuhji » Sep 25, 2010 6:35 am

OK, it is done with your usefull advises Matt :lol:

It has taken me two hours, I hope it will be functionnal ... It only remains to solder connectors on these huge cables before testing.

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Image
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.

My eKMX : https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 28&t=20961

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Re: My e-KMX

Post by recumpence » Sep 25, 2010 7:52 am

Looks very good. :)

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Re: My e-KMX

Post by Beuhji » Oct 06, 2010 6:43 am

OK ! I have tested it all days since last weekend and the maximum voltage ripple seems to be widely better (2.12 V) than the previous build without capacitors (arround 5.3 V) ! Moreover, my new top speed is 75 km/h :D

Thank you Matt !!!

However I have some problems with bearings of the rear wheel of my KMX Tornado. There are some radial play and i doesn't remember it was already present during my firsts runs. Matt do you ever killed the rear wheel bearings of a KMX with too much power ? :|

Image

Image
I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.

My eKMX : https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 28&t=20961

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Re: My e-KMX

Post by etard » Oct 08, 2010 12:46 am

Great build man, can't wait to see more vids! Are you getting the rear wheel loose? :mrgreen:

I love how visible you set it up to be, is this going to be a commuter or something?
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