Lyen 18fet to Cyclone 1000watt Instructions

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damcard   100 W

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Lyen 18fet to Cyclone 1000watt Instructions

Post by damcard » Nov 27 2010 3:45pm

With a lot of help from Mr. Lyen, I was able to connect my 1000 watt Cyclone motor to one of his 18fet controllers. I also reused my cyclone throttle. It appears the battery indicator still works and all. I am still making the mount for it so, its not on the bike. I thought it was still worth posting how I matched the Cyclone's wires to Mr. Lyen's controller since I could not find it when I searched.

I first found the image of the controller on Ypedal's site:
Image

Then Lyen sent me these two images:
cyclonethrottle.jpg
cyclonethrottle.jpg (38.45 KiB) Viewed 6121 times
cyclonemotorpinoutedwar.png
cyclonemotorpinoutedwar.png (32.43 KiB) Viewed 5843 times
He also suggested connecting the controller's throttle 5v out to the motor 15v listed in the images.

Then I connected them as indicated in this high tech analog carbon rendering:
SCAN0028.JPG
SCAN0028.JPG (293.99 KiB) Viewed 615 times
It worked on the first try.


Not sure when I will get it on the bike. I have to finish making the motor sprocket and then make a new motor mounting bracket. It really depends when my machinist gets some free time.

If anyone can tell me what wires to flip to make it run in reverse, it would be helpful. I haven't tried yet.

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boostjuice   10 kW

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Re: Lyen 18fet to Cyclone 1000watt Instructions

Post by boostjuice » Nov 27 2010 4:59pm

damcard wrote: If anyone can tell me what wires to flip to make it run in reverse, it would be helpful. I haven't tried yet.
Swapping any two of the power phase wires is the easiest way.

Good job on this. We now have an example thread we can direct everyone to who asks about alternative controllers With Cyclone motors.

I still maintain though that there is nothing inherently unreliable about the standard Headline-Electric controller that are bundled with in the Cyclone kit. Rather, controller failure results from gearing the motor too tall and running the motor at part throttle/high-load to compensate for the too-low RPM, which results in extended high-phase-current demands that would stress any controller that was not completely overkill for the motor's potential. I have many hundreds of trouble free kms on my controller, and the only time the heatsink casing has gotten above ~40degC is when I purposely bogged the motor down by being in too tall a gear (an experiment). The motor casing on the other hand gets HOT (80~100degC equilibrium temperature) after cruising continuously @ 2300W/2200RPM for 5 mins or more. A bit of a worry when the winding insulation is only Class E rated (120degC) :shock:
Last edited by boostjuice on Nov 28 2010 4:33am, edited 2 times in total.

Dingo2024   100 W

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Re: Lyen 18fet to Cyclone 1000watt Instructions

Post by Dingo2024 » Nov 27 2010 5:37pm

thanks damcard.......... nice to see proof that this can be done :wink:

question; did you notice any difference in smoothness of pickup with this controler compared to the headline..is the throttle still 'notchy' at small openings and not responsive through full travel

thanks,

Ian :D
started as a boy, grew into a man....not sure where I am headed now
build thread; http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=18130
top speed now stands at 43.9 mph

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spinningmagnets   100 GW

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Re: Lyen 18fet to Cyclone 1000watt Instructions

Post by spinningmagnets » Nov 27 2010 5:48pm

...With a lot of help from Mr. Lyen...I first found the [schematic] image of the controller on Ypedal's site...It worked on the first try...
This is the kind of stuff that makes me feel like I'm part of a great community. Another high-five for ES! this place ROCKS!

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damcard   100 W

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Re: Lyen 18fet to Cyclone 1000watt Instructions

Post by damcard » Nov 27 2010 5:50pm

boostjuice wrote:I still maintain though that there is nothing inherently unreliable about the standard Headline-Electric controller they are bundled with in the Cyclone kit.
I agree. My original Cyclone controller still works. I never pedaled, but kept it in its more efficient rpm range. To be honest, the main reason I bought the new controller is because of the awkward size of the Cyclone controller. It will be much easier to mount Lyen's and hopefully it will be a bit stouter. Still, I am looking forward to comparing it to the Cyclone controller. I'll see if I can mount them both at some point and do some comparisons.
Dingo2024 wrote:did you notice any difference in smoothness of pickup with this controler compared to the headline..is the throttle still 'notchy' at small openings and not responsive through full travel
I have not run it on my bike yet. I only just tested this, but it feels the same as the Cyclone under no load. I'll follow up when I have it running on the bike. I am looking forward to trying the variable current functionality of the cycle analyst. I have never used it before, so I am not sure how it will behave.

I want to take the time to acknowledge the great service I got from Lyen. He answered all my questions, even on Thanksgiving day. The controller was very well packaged. Just want to be sure to give him credit. -Damcard

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Re: Lyen 18fet to Cyclone 1000watt Instructions

Post by kentlim26 » Nov 28 2010 4:05am

hi Damcard,

im very happy with another solution for cyclone controller. This has been a good way out and wonderful help from you. i really thank you, for posting this. Im sure many who have encounter cyclone controller problems. this is good for guys like me who had drawn back using the motor, i will try this later. Good work Done!! Good heart too !

kentlim
Conhis hub motor run on April 2010, 48v 1000watts hub motor distance run 5800km, and Re~alive cyclone kit bought in year 2009, Bought a greentime controller 18fets- 4110 , 48v~ 90v , 3-speed mode. Latest top speed I got for my greentime controller 76.8km/h ! , yet to reach 80km/h, or I will never reached 80km/h ?

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Re: Lyen 18fet to Cyclone 1000watt Instructions

Post by waxman123 » Dec 05 2010 9:51pm

Awsome!!

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Re: Lyen 18fet to Cyclone 1000watt Instructions

Post by wineboyrider » Jan 13 2011 5:09pm

Great post and video. I kind of want to do the opposite of what you did. I want to use my headline controller on my BMC motor? At least I know where some of the wires are for coming out of the controller.
ES IS SAVED! THANK YOU JUSTIN.

sanyock   100 µW

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Re: Lyen 18fet to Cyclone 1000watt Instructions

Post by sanyock » Feb 10 2011 12:27pm

Hello,

Please let me know, does such setup works only for direct Cyclone 1000/1500W or it is the same for a geared Cyclone 650/900/1200W?

Thanks,
Alex

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Re: Lyen 18fet to Cyclone 1000watt Instructions

Post by waxman123 » Feb 10 2011 1:55pm

It works for the geared Cyclone motors too. I have it hooked up to a 1200watt geared cyclone and it works great. THE LYEN CONTROLLERS KICK ASS. THERE IS NOTHING OUT THERE EASY TO USE, PROGRAM AND EDWARD IS A GREAT GUY TOO. SUPER HAPPY WITH THE LYEN CONTROLLERS!!!!!

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Re: Lyen 18fet to Cyclone 1000watt Instructions

Post by sanyock » Feb 10 2011 10:37pm

I am just trying to select between Kelly and Lyen. Kelly has a rich catalog with all details specified, I would like to read and compare Lyen's controller parameters too. May be somewhere is a catalog with full specifications of his unmodified controllers?

Main concern for me is ERPM capability of the controller.
It seems that a geared cyclone should have on its shaft: 6600RPM at 36V, 8800RPM at 48V
Cyclone sprocket RPM is less by a factor of 9.3.

To achieve specified RPMs a controller should supply ERPM = RPM*number of poles
Geared Cyclone seems to have 12 poles, then for 36V a controller should provide at least: 6600*12=79200ERPM

According to Kelly's http://www.kellycontroller.com/kbs36101 ... p-502.html
they can customize the model to 70000 ERPM
but unfortunately I am completely missing specifications for Lyen's controllers to compare.

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damcard   100 W

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Re: Lyen 18fet to Cyclone 1000watt Instructions

Post by damcard » Feb 21 2011 9:49pm

Sorry sanyock, I don't have an answer for you.

I do have a question for the masses. I need to run my cyclone in reverse direction. I have tried swapping phase, phase/sensor, and sensor wires. Every combination I find that works runs the motor in the wrong direction. Could anyone suggest how to alter the diagram at the top to run the cyclone motor in reverse with this Lyen controller? Can I simply program the controller to run in reverse? -Damcard

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damcard   100 W

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Re: Lyen 18fet to Cyclone 1000watt Instructions

Post by damcard » Feb 23 2011 12:44am

Okay, got it. To reverse the direction, I wired it as indicated in the diagram above except for the sensor wires. I wired them as such: motor black to controller yellow, motor white to controller blue, motor red to controller green.

Also, I found to run it in reverse, it drew less amps at no load if I adjusted the timing of the hall sensors. I just played with it a bit. But now it works. -Damcard.

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TopCat   100 W

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Re: Lyen 18fet to Cyclone 1000watt Instructions

Post by TopCat » Apr 02 2012 11:09am

damcard wrote:Okay, got it. To reverse the direction, I wired it as indicated in the diagram above except for the sensor wires. I wired them as such: motor black to controller yellow, motor white to controller blue, motor red to controller green.

Also, I found to run it in reverse, it drew less amps at no load if I adjusted the timing of the hall sensors. I just played with it a bit. But now it works. -Damcard.
I have a Cyclone 1200w motor and a LYEN 12 FET 3077 MOSFET Extreme Modder Controller.

I have it all screwed and bloted onto a wooden board for initial testing. When I wired everything up
(following your carbon rendering diagram :mrgreen: ) all went well :wink:
I had to wait to get a sprocket bored out that I got back today. I then tried to get my motor to run in reverse via swapping the PHASE wires like you tried....
(this sounded the simplest way, and was after id spent some time soldering up and heat shrinking the sensor wires :roll: )
damcard wrote:I do have a question for the masses. I need to run my cyclone in reverse direction. I have tried swapping phase, phase/sensor, and sensor wires. Every combination I find that works runs the motor in the wrong direction. Could anyone suggest how to alter the diagram at the top to run the cyclone motor in reverse with this Lyen controller? Can I simply program the controller to run in reverse? -Damcard
....but unlike you any combination I try results in the motor not turning and a rather worrying grinding noise comming from the motor as the wooden board bounces around?
Looks like Ill have to strip everything back down and try rewiring the sensor wires as you did.
Fingers crossed all goes well.

Regards
Tom
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Re: Lyen 18fet to Cyclone 1000watt Instructions

Post by tony67 » Apr 02 2012 7:45pm

Your unlikely to get many responses on this thread as its over a year since its been active. I have the same setup as you and also a lyen extreme controller I can confirm swapping phase wires does reverse its spin. I cant remember which ones but you normally only have to swap 2 phase wires. find below instructions i got from lyen on wiring with my suggestion:

Controller: Motor:

Red Yellow
Black Orange

Hall:
Yellow Red
Green White
Blue Black

Phase: Phase
Yellow Red........try swap......yellow white
Green White.......try swap......green red
Blue Black.........try swap......Blue black

Throttle:

Controller > Throttle:
Red Red
Black White
Green Yellow
Last edited by tony67 on Apr 02 2012 8:12pm, edited 1 time in total.

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TopCat   100 W

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Re: Lyen 18fet to Cyclone 1000watt Instructions

Post by TopCat » Apr 02 2012 7:59pm

tony67 wrote:Your unlikely to get many responses on this thread as its over a year since its been active. I have the same setup as you and also a lyen extreme controller I can confirm swapping phase wires does reverse its spin. I cant remember which ones but you normally only have to swap 2 phase wires. find below instructions i got from lyen on wiring with my suggestion:

Controller: Motor:

Red Yellow
Black Orange

Hall:
Yellow Red
Green White
Blue Black

Phase: Phase
Yellow Red yellow white
Green White try swap green red
Blue Black Blue black

Throttle:

Controller > Throttle:
Red Red
Black White
Green Yellow
Thanks for the reply Tony, I have another go at swapping the Phase wires but I dont hold out any hope as I already tried all combinations and all I get is the rattling grinding noise from the motor as I turn the throttle.
I have PMd Lyen and asked if swapping the sensor wires as damcard tried would harm my motor/controller?

This is the working setup I have, with the motor turning the normal way...

MOTOR ..................CONTROLLER

............PHASE WIRES.........
Black..........to..........Blue
Red.............to..........Yellow
White......... to..........Green

............SENSOR WIRES.........
Black...........to............Blue
White...........to............Green
Red..............to............Yellow
Orange.........to............Black
Yellow...........to............Red
There are 3 wires left spare comming from the motor...
1 unshielded bare silver wire.
1 Purple wire.
1 Blue wire.
(these are tape up out of the way)

...........Throttle Wires...........
Throttle......................Controller
Red.............to..........Red
Green..........to..........Green
Blue............to..........Black


Regards
Tom
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tony67   100 W

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Re: Lyen 18fet to Cyclone 1000watt Instructions

Post by tony67 » Apr 02 2012 8:23pm

Your throttle wires look off to me, now its several months since Ive been at mine but i seem to remember the

red is pos
white is neg
yellow is signal

TRY
Controller > Throttle:
Red ............Red
Black ..........White
Green .........Yellow

PS i assume your using the oro throttle that came with the kit?

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TopCat   100 W

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Re: Lyen 18fet to Cyclone 1000watt Instructions

Post by TopCat » Apr 02 2012 8:36pm

tony67 wrote:Your throttle wires look off to me, now its several months since Ive been at mine but i seem to remember the

red is pos
white is neg
yellow is signal

TRY
Controller > Throttle:
Red ............Red
Black ..........White
Green .........Yellow

PS i assume your using the oro throttle that came with the kit?
No. I just bought the 1200w Cyclone motor on its own from http://eclipsebikes.com/index.php I then bought a controller from Lyen, plus just a normal 3 wire throttle. Im at present going through the PHASE wire swapping again, I'll get back with a report shortly.

Regards
Tom
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Re: Lyen 18fet to Cyclone 1000watt Instructions

Post by tony67 » Apr 02 2012 8:47pm

Out of curiosity was it a new motor?

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TopCat   100 W

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Re: Lyen 18fet to Cyclone 1000watt Instructions

Post by TopCat » Apr 02 2012 8:57pm

tony67 wrote:Out of curiosity was it a new motor?
Yes. Brand new motor, plus a new controller from Lyen.

Just finished doing a Phase Wire swapping session and here are the results.

.........Swapping Phase Wires..........

MOTOR ..................CONTROLLER

............PHASE WIRES.........
Black..........to..........Blue
Red.............to..........Yellow......Motor runs normal at turn of throttle.
White......... to..........Green

Black..........to...........Blue
Red.............to...........Green.....Grinding noise from motor?
White..........to...........Yellow

Black............to.........Yellow
Red...............to.........Blue.......Grinding noise from motor?
White............to.........Green

Black............to.........Green
Red...............to.........Blue.......Yipeee We have a winner :mrgreen:
White............to.........Yellow


Im glad I now dont have to split down all the sensor wiring to rearange that lot :)
I'll have to do it eventually as all my wiring is about a meter long for testing. Now that I know all is working I can start trimming down my wires and install everything on my bike.

Regards
Tom
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Re: Lyen 18fet to Cyclone 1000watt Instructions

Post by tony67 » Apr 02 2012 9:08pm

Good stuff I remember some late nights getting my own cyclone up and running, wiring can be a nightmare sometimes.

If you have a watt meter put it inline with the battery and make sure your drawing 2-3 amps with no-load. False positives can occur where the motor will spin but is not wired properly, tell tale sign is 10-15 amp draw with no load and excessive heat build up. Also keep an eye on your gearbox grease it can dry up or get pushed away from the gears. A drop of gear oil helps thin it out and keep it moving. Anyway best of luck with it.

Tony

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damcard   100 W

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Re: Lyen 18fet to Cyclone 1000watt Instructions

Post by damcard » Apr 02 2012 10:02pm

I wonder if I had it wrong. My motor did overheat, but I was really pushing it. If anyone does this, verify the draw for me. I don't have a working one anymore. :)

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