750 W Chain Puller; Fits Most Bikes (+Video)

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Ron Z   10 mW

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750 W Chain Puller; Fits Most Bikes (+Video)

Post by Ron Z » Apr 26 2011 11:30am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytYuosP2Blg



Since I started developing drive systems 3 or 4 years ago, I have had as a goal, a chain puller that would fit nearly any bike. Finally! Shown below is a 750 Watt Drive Kit that mounts on a standard, slightly modified, bottom bracket. The only other connection to the bike frame is thru a pressure pad that contacts the bike down tube. The system pushes (rotates) into the frame under power, and is prevented from rotating away from the frame by a single large tie wrap. The entire system fits betwen the arc of the pedals.

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The system mounts on two arms with ball bearings that rotate on the bottom bracket spindle. To my surprise, this mounting method results in a very quiet system. RC motors have significant torque ripple, as high as 18 percent. When that torque ripple couples into the bike frame (especially aluminum frames) it set off multiple resonances that create noise. In this system, the ball bearings isolate the frame from the torque ripple. The decoupling along with the precision gearbox result in a whisper quiet system.

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The motor is an Astro Flight 3205 8 turn Kv 375 rpm/volt, Rm 0.055 ohm, Io 0.8 Amp, length 1.5 inches. The gearbox is a Neugart PLE 60, 32-1, precision 2 stage planetary. On the gearbox output shaft is an Odessey 13 tooth BMX free wheel (metric). Primary drive is thru half link chain, for the small free wheel, and quietness. Vision IPS freewheeling cranks are used (EVDeals). The kit allows mounting up to 50 tooth chain wheel in either inner or outer position. The bottom bracket is a standard Shimano UN-54, 127mm. A 0.035 inch bevel is ground off the left side of the bottom bracket. This removal does not affect the ability to tighten and untighten the bottom bracket whatsoever.

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The primary chain tension is adjusted with 8 bolts connecting the motor/gearbox mounting plate with the bike mounting plate.
4 screws set the spacing (chain tension), and four screws clamp the two plates together. There is 1/4 inch of adjustment. After that, links can be added or removed.

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I use 25 volt LiFePO4 battery system rated at 42 amps max (Battery Space). The Speed control is a Castle Creations HV 80.

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The last picture shows a prototype system mounted on a full suspension mountain bike, which I consider the worst case. I am presently riding a Electra Townie with the final system shown in the pictures. The rear hub is an Nexus 8 speed internal. So far I'm pleased. The bike is powerful, but not drive system destroying powerful. I'm presently sorting out gearing. Pictures later.
Last edited by Ron Z on Jun 13 2011 3:09pm, edited 1 time in total.

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snellemin   10 kW

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Re: 750 W Chain Puller; Fits Most Bikes

Post by snellemin » Apr 26 2011 11:35am

That is a very nice setup man. Awesome build.
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Re: 750 W Chain Puller; Fits Most Bikes

Post by Ypedal » Apr 26 2011 11:38am

Well done !!!!.. i likey ! 8)
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Miles   100 GW

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Re: 750 W Chain Puller; Fits Most Bikes

Post by Miles » Apr 26 2011 11:53am

Nicely thought out, Ron. Looks great, too.

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Re: 750 W Chain Puller; Fits Most Bikes

Post by StudEbiker » Apr 26 2011 1:22pm

Drool..... I'm not understanding why it looks like there are two sprockets on the planetary tough.

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Re: 750 W Chain Puller; Fits Most Bikes

Post by dumbass » Apr 26 2011 1:28pm

Totally fantastic setup.....I am really impressed. Now work on those batteries and you got a winner for sure.

Bob

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Whiplash   100 MW

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Re: 750 W Chain Puller; Fits Most Bikes

Post by Whiplash » Apr 26 2011 2:38pm

Very nice work! I would love to see some video of this in action! So does the bottom bracket mount just float there, or is it rigidly mounted in some way?
Power is a fascinating thing, the more you have, the more you want, but the real power is having the restraint not to use it all at once...............Um...Yeah..

The harder you work.....The luckier you get!!

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Re: 750 W Chain Puller; Fits Most Bikes

Post by liveforphysics » Apr 26 2011 3:28pm

Looks very nice. :)

Gotta love the ability to get a 32:1 gearing reduction in such a tiny form factor. Multi-stage planets rock.
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Re: 750 W Chain Puller; Fits Most Bikes

Post by amberwolf » Apr 26 2011 5:04pm

StudEbiker wrote:Drool..... I'm not understanding why it looks like there are two sprockets on the planetary tough.
I was thinking that maybe so one could have a chain to the rear wheel? ;)

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Re: 750 W Chain Puller; Fits Most Bikes

Post by Matthijs » Apr 26 2011 5:25pm

Amazing! Do you wish to share the weight of a complete unit? :)

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Re: 750 W Chain Puller; Fits Most Bikes

Post by recumpence » Apr 26 2011 5:26pm

Lookin good Ron.

I never heard back when I asked about making more 3205s. :?

I love the clean design.

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Re: 750 W Chain Puller; Fits Most Bikes

Post by Gordo » Apr 26 2011 5:27pm

amberwolf wrote:
StudEbiker wrote:Drool..... I'm not understanding why it looks like there are two sprockets on the planetary tough.
I was thinking that maybe so one could have a chain to the rear wheel? ;)
Good eye. +1 8)
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Re: 750 W Chain Puller; Fits Most Bikes

Post by StudEbiker » Apr 26 2011 6:43pm

Unless I'm missing something, I think the chain to the rear wheel would go from the second sprocket on the crank. That still doesn't explain why there is two sprockets on the drive unit. This is the picture I'm looking at.
Img2011-03-31_0009.jpg
Img2011-03-31_0009.jpg (142.09 KiB) Viewed 3192 times
There are two sprockets on the freewheeling crank, but there are also two on the drive. One with a chain to the crank...the other for???

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boostjuice   10 kW

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Re: 750 W Chain Puller; Fits Most Bikes

Post by boostjuice » Apr 26 2011 6:55pm

Vision IPS freewheeling cranks are used (EVDeals)
Could you please provide a link? I cant find them on the EVdeals website.

Top work BTW!

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Re: 750 W Chain Puller; Fits Most Bikes

Post by kfong » Apr 26 2011 7:41pm

Nice workmanship Ron, The 32:1 is quite high for the second stage, sounds like a torque monster. I plan to do something similar, but more like Burtie's setup. When you mentioned how quiet your drive system is, this really caught my attention. Any video possible? I've been trying to get a Nugart planetary, no luck. I did get an 11:1 reduction recently from a different brand, but still waiting for it in the mail. Hopefully it will be strong enough for my setup.

Field reports please, once you get that baby on the road and hill climbing results as well. Again nice job!

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Re: 750 W Chain Puller; Fits Most Bikes

Post by damonjackson_spl » Apr 26 2011 8:05pm

i just got some movement in the pants!!!!
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Ron Z   10 mW

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Re: 750 W Chain Puller; Fits Most Bikes

Post by Ron Z » Apr 26 2011 8:09pm

Initial answers to questions.
Whiplash wrote:Very nice work! I would love to see some video of this in action! So does the bottom bracket mount just float there, or is it rigidly mounted in some way?
Image

It floats on ball bearings. Provide a rider (I'm 66), and a videographer on the east coast, and we'll talk.
Gordo wrote:
amberwolf wrote:
StudEbiker wrote:Drool..... I'm not understanding why it looks like there are two sprockets on the planetary tough.
It's an optical illusion, probably due to reflections and the wide angle lens. There is only one freewheel. There is not room for two.

I was thinking that maybe so one could have a chain to the rear wheel? ;)
Good eye. +1 8)


Simply turn the motor gearbox system around (It's symetrical, only four screws), and drive the left side of the rear wheel. The freewheel has an insert that fits on the gearbox keyed shaft. So turn around the motor/gearbox, flip the freewheel on the shaft, and swap two wires on the motor phases, and you are in business. Probably would need a different gearbox ratio, lots of ratios available. The present gearbox full throttle output rpm is 300.
recumpence wrote:Lookin good Ron.

I never heard back when I asked about making more 3205s. :? I love the clean design.

Matt
More motors are coming! Sent you a pm.
Matthijs wrote:Amazing! Do you wish to share the weight of a complete unit? :)
The system including the cranks and bottom bracket weighs approximately 11.5 lbs. Thats about 8 pounds added weight above a standard crank set, and bottom bracket.
boostjuice wrote:
Vision IPS freewheeling cranks are used (EVDeals)
Could you please provide a link? I cant find them on the EVdeals website.

Top work BTW!
I get them in quantity thru EVdeals. They are not on his website. I will call Scott at EVdeals, and will report back on this thread.

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Re: 750 W Chain Puller; Fits Most Bikes

Post by Ypedal » Apr 26 2011 8:18pm

projected price ?..
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Ron Z   10 mW

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Re: 750 W Chain Puller; Fits Most Bikes

Post by Ron Z » Apr 26 2011 8:22pm

I don't want to turn this thread into SPAM. Pm me and I will provide information as to availability of parts and pieces.

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Re: 750 W Chain Puller; Fits Most Bikes

Post by neptronix » Apr 26 2011 9:18pm

Very very interesting...
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Whiplash   100 MW

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Re: 750 W Chain Puller; Fits Most Bikes

Post by Whiplash » Apr 26 2011 10:45pm

Nice! So the brackets simply straddle the protruding portions of the bottom bracket pieces! Great idea!
Power is a fascinating thing, the more you have, the more you want, but the real power is having the restraint not to use it all at once...............Um...Yeah..

The harder you work.....The luckier you get!!

"People who say it can't be done are often interrupted by those that have already figured out how to do it!"

Email me @ currentcycles@gmail.com
OR check out http://www.CurrentCycles.net

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damonjackson_spl   100 W

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Re: 750 W Chain Puller; Fits Most Bikes

Post by damonjackson_spl » Apr 26 2011 11:11pm

Ypedal wrote:projected price ?..

PRICE?
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Re: 750 W Chain Puller; Fits Most Bikes

Post by briangv99 » Apr 26 2011 11:54pm

Very very nice work Ron, looking forward to seeing a video of the system in action.
boostjuice wrote:
Vision IPS freewheeling cranks are used (EVDeals)
Could you please provide a link? I cant find them on the EVdeals website.

Top work BTW!
Boost I bought mine here http://www.hostelshoppe.com/cgi-bin/rea ... 1098307215

you'll need the stoker set. They come with a Shimano FW, I've changed mine over to use a white Eno.

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Re: 750 W Chain Puller; Fits Most Bikes

Post by amberwolf » Apr 27 2011 12:09am

....
Last edited by amberwolf on Feb 28 2017 3:13am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 750 W Chain Puller; Fits Most Bikes

Post by spinningmagnets » Apr 27 2011 1:53am

Mounting a BB drive off the BB-cartridge (instead of the downtube) is a brilliant idea. Other BB-drives had cumbersome attachments that had issues with mount-rotation on the round tubing when under load, and adaptation difficulties due to the variety of downtubes styles (some of which do not have a round cross-section).

The motor needs a splashed-mud cover, but theres a lot to really like about every part of this!

http://www.acpd.co.uk/planetary-gearbox ... l#e1023387
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