push-trailer from "assorted junk"*

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emmetbrown
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push-trailer from "assorted junk"*

Post by emmetbrown » Aug 12, 2011 6:14 pm

Hi,
so this will be my first build-topic.
Already have a legal selfbuilt bike, here in Germany that means 250W max, but only when pedaling.
For a longer time now I´m interested in building a push-trailer ´cause of its "not legal and not illegal" status over here.
It simply isn´t regulated right now.
A colleague of mine brought me an old stand-up scooter, SLAs almost dead, all in really bad condition.
While taking it apart I found it worth trying to rebuild it as a push-trailer for almost no money.
I will try to leave as much as possible intact, just welding a bit on the front-end ( tow-arm ) and making a wider board for transporting stuff.
Wheel-Diameter is 12,5", little bit small but seems to be o.k. as the first test-platform until I get my new 20" wheel with a brushed Heinzmann ( still waits to be laced in by a friend of mine ) .
That is the simple plan until now.
Your comments and help are highly welcome.
Please excuse my bad english, its not my native language.
edit: forget to grant some credits to amberwolf for using "his" therm assorted junk :mrgreen:

Let´s start with a few pictures:
Attachments
DSCN0341.JPG
DSCN0341.JPG (186.02 KiB) Viewed 4573 times
DSCN0342.JPG
DSCN0342.JPG (192.4 KiB) Viewed 4573 times
Last edited by emmetbrown on Dec 16, 2012 3:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: push-trailer from "assorted junk"*

Post by Gordo » Aug 12, 2011 10:07 pm

Welcome to ES. I particularly like building from junk. I am a very experienced "dumpster diver"; one who rummages in trash bins.
I am sure you realize that you will loose half the torque when you change from 12" to 20", but you gain speed if it can handle the load you put on it.
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Thanks Justin, for saving ES. May Grin Tech grow and prosper.

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Re: push-trailer from "assorted junk"*

Post by amberwolf » Aug 13, 2011 3:25 am

It should easily be possible to do this. You could actually even just use the entire existing scooter frame starting at the headtube back, and leave it's motor, chaindrive, and wheel. Build a BOB-style hitch to connect the frame up to the back of your bike, maybe moving the headtube down to be level with or just above the bottom of the battery frame.

If you use a taller wheel, the whole frame will sit up higher and the weight of batteries/etc will be higher, potentially causing more leverage on the bike to sway it from side to side under some conditions.

FWIW, I have what's left of what amounts to the exact same scooter, from ScootNGo, though the plastics and the headlight/lighting/console are different. I never considered a push trailer from it's remains, but I might well try that, now. :)

My motor is burned out, but I am sure I can figure a replacement for that easy enough (and McDesign here on ES has MANY parts for cheap for these scooters, if you need any).

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Re: push-trailer from "assorted junk"*

Post by emmetbrown » Aug 13, 2011 3:55 am

Thank you guys.
The 20" wheel isn´t mentioned to fit in this one, as for it I will build an extra-frame.
The Heinzmann which will be laced in there is supposed to run in 26" wheels, so "downsizing" to 20" will bring me
more torque and less speed. Hills here are very steep and the one ending in front of my house is somewhere in the range
of 9-10%. But that´s the next build, going to finish the easy one first.
Tested motor, controller etc., everything seems to work just fine.
So I hope i get to welding today ( my welds look mostly horrible, but they do what they´re supposed to :mrgreen: ).

greetings,

christian

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Re: push-trailer from "assorted junk"*

Post by spinningmagnets » Aug 13, 2011 3:58 am

Here's a push-trailer thread that may have some useful ideas and advice

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... f=6&t=9855

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Re: push-trailer from "assorted junk"*

Post by emmetbrown » Aug 15, 2011 3:16 pm

Hey together,
still waiting for my new used welder, old one has some strange behaviors
I couldn´t figure out right now ( works good for a few seconds, after that won´t put out enough amps, but no
overheating :( ). After a few minutes this procedure starts over again.

I think the only way to go is to clamp the pull-arm to the seatpost cause I just don´t get how this triangle thing is
connected to the rear of the bike ( the axle imho ). Watched tons of pictures so far...

Just bought an used e-bike with SLAs for 100 bucks, all in very good condition, except the front-fork ( loose inside ).
Using this one for little bit commuting and fun-riding till i get a new controller for my main-bike, after that it will
be my wifes one.

greetings,

christian

p.s.: @spinningmagnets: thx, but I knew it already. perhaps my trailer will be listed there in near future :mrgreen:

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Re: push-trailer from "assorted junk"*

Post by REdiculous » Aug 16, 2011 4:00 pm

I think the only way to go is to clamp the pull-arm to the seatpost cause I just don´t get how this triangle thing is
connected to the rear of the bike ( the axle imho ). Watched tons of pictures so far...
It's not that complicated.

Basically, there's just a bushing (/bearing) on the trailer part that attaches to the axle. That way the trailer can move up/down but that part is always inline with the bike.....that is, if you lean left, that part of the trailer leans left too. Behind that is the head tube that allows the trailer to turn (or track) left/right.

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Re: push-trailer from "assorted junk"*

Post by TopCat » Aug 16, 2011 5:10 pm

Here's what you need for a mono wheeled trailer. A couple of Rose joints welded to a piece of angle bracket that can then be bolted on through your wheel.

Image

Image

Sadly the forums I have my mono wheel pictures on is down at the moment...

My Monowheel Trailer.
Image

But there are a couple of mono wheel trailers on Instructables that you can look at to show you the build process and to give you an idea on how they hook up to the bike.

http://www.instructables.com/id/new-tra ... -march-09/

http://www.instructables.com/id/Single- ... /?ALLSTEPS

Regards
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Re: push-trailer from "assorted junk"*

Post by TopCat » Aug 17, 2011 1:44 am

Update...
This was the one wheeler I was looking for. This shows clearly how the hitch/trailer is attached to the bike.

Heim/rose joints welded to trailer arms.
Image

Nuts welded to a couple of plates to suit your bikes dropouts.
Image
Image
Image

Trailer hooked up to bike.
Image

The complete build.
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.ph ... el-trailer

Regards
Tom
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Re: push-trailer from "assorted junk"*

Post by emmetbrown » Aug 17, 2011 2:18 am

Thank you very much for this, now i got it.
Think i maybe can count to 21 now, too :mrgreen: .
Nice Chopper, Topcat.

greetings,

christian

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Re: push-trailer from "assorted junk"*

Post by emmetbrown » Aug 19, 2011 6:50 pm

Had the first test-ride 1,5 hours ago, it works.
Looks ugly, too :mrgreen: .
Will post the pictures tomorrow, I am too tired now ( it´s 1:50am here ) .

greetings,

christian

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Re: push-trailer from "assorted junk"*

Post by TopCat » Aug 19, 2011 7:34 pm

emmetbrown wrote:Had the first test-ride 1,5 hours ago, it works.
Looks ugly, too :mrgreen: .
Will post the pictures tomorrow, I am too tired now ( it´s 1:50am here ) .

greetings,

christian
Good to hear you've created something and done a test run Christian :wink: Uglys good, I started with ugly :mrgreen: As long as it gets you from A to B, besides if you start with ugly you can only get better.

I have a kiddy scooter a bit like yours but never done much with it. The 24V controller stopped working when I had it hooked up to a pushtrailer I made last year. I moved up to a 36V controller, I then saw the chopper on Ebay and forgot about trailers. Im now thinking of reviving my pushtrailer until I can get a new motor for my chopper.

Scooter.
Image

Pushtrailer.
Ugly version.
Image

Getting better. Wheels now supported on both sides.
Image

Final version. (for now).
Its now without a motor (as I took it off to put on my chopper) which I burnt out last week :cry:
Image,Image

Pushtrailer Build Thread.
http://motorbicycling.com/f9/bosscats-p ... 16616.html

Regards
Tom
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Re: push-trailer from "assorted junk"*

Post by amberwolf » Aug 19, 2011 10:59 pm

Is the frame stiff enough, made from that "ventilated" :) angle steel?

Regarding your blue scooter, even the plastics on that one are identical to the red ScootNGo I started off with.

I'm sorely tempted to redo my DayGlo Avenger's trailer hitch setup into a BOB type; I'm just not sure how it would work out with the heavy loads I end up with--it might be a lot better, or it might be worse. I suspect better.... :?


@emmetbrown: I definitely want to see pics once you're awake. :)


I'm glad y'all posted about your trailers, because this reminded me I needed to finish a beefing up of my kennel trailer, before Sunday when I have to take Nana (the St. Bernard) with me to work.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =2&t=18671

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Re: push-trailer from "assorted junk"*

Post by emmetbrown » Aug 20, 2011 4:47 am

Finally awake :D .
Just keep in mind that its not finished yet, its a little bit more ugly than yours, Tom, which
I find very good looking.

Some pics are shot without flash from hand, so they´re a little unsharp.
First pic is my friend Daniel, just to show you the mood we were in yesterday 8) .
DSCN0344.JPG
DSCN0344.JPG (193.06 KiB) Viewed 4578 times
Daniel cutting off the unnecessary stuff
DSCN0346.JPG
DSCN0346.JPG (187.94 KiB) Viewed 4578 times
Frame with the towarm from junk, angled and welded together again
DSCN0347.JPG
DSCN0347.JPG (192.46 KiB) Viewed 4578 times
Towarm and how it will be attached to the frame ( we cut off the headpipe )
DSCN0348.JPG
Daniel welding towarm to frame
DSCN0350.JPG
The adaptor for the saddle-pipe, taken off of a junk frame
DSCN0351.JPG
Yes, this is part of my welding art :mrgreen:
DSCN0353.JPG
... just getting a fresh cup of coffee, to be continued in a few minutes...
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Re: push-trailer from "assorted junk"*

Post by emmetbrown » Aug 20, 2011 5:16 am

no more coffee, now I got tea...

Another friend of mine, who doesn´t want to be named, let´s call him the person :D .
The person mounts up the motor and aligns the chain-line.
DSCN0354.JPG
Daniel tightening the rear wheel, the oldschool-shoes in the right of the picture belong to the persons father...
DSCN0355.JPG
Ready for test-ride
DSCN0356.JPG
The not really finished but usable trailer
DSCN0357.JPG
While typing this the NiCd-pack is charging
DSCN0359.JPG
Now I have to build a few things around it for hauling stuff.
Hope you had a little fun watching this so far,

greetings,

christian
Last edited by emmetbrown on Dec 16, 2012 3:08 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: push-trailer from "assorted junk"*

Post by TopCat » Aug 20, 2011 5:50 am

Hi Christian,

You were right ----- It does look Ugly :D
Image

You'll need to be a bit careful while riding that with the long pipe hitch - You do know its going to bounce around like a kangaroo on acid when you hit any pot holes. Is your rear sprocket bolted onto a freewheel throught the teeth?
The next thing we need to see is a Youtube video test run :wink:
amberwolf wrote:Is the frame stiff enough, made from that "ventilated" :) angle steel?
Yeah amberwolf its quite stiff enough as its only the outer frame thats vented angle iron.
Image
The trailer started its life as a cantilevered wheel job and I just added the frame work around it as the wheels were starting to buckle with any serious weight in the trailer.
I hauled a big HEAVY box of motors home in it last Sunday, but without the motor on it my legs were knackerd :mrgreen:

Regards
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Re: push-trailer from "assorted junk"*

Post by emmetbrown » Aug 20, 2011 6:25 am

thanks for the flowers, tom :D .
yes, it´s a freewheeling rear sprocket.
the long towarm is surprisingly stable so far.
i´m sorry, but no youtube-video today as I have a lot of work waiting for me now ( and no youtube-account yet ).
if I can do one, perhaps anyone of you wants to put it up there.

greetings,

christian

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Re: push-trailer from "assorted junk"*

Post by amberwolf » Aug 21, 2011 2:23 am

Now you make me want to take what's left of my scooter chassis, and turn it into that same kind of thing...except with a BOB hitch to the dropouts. :)

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Re: push-trailer from "assorted junk"*

Post by emmetbrown » Aug 21, 2011 2:44 am

amberwolf wrote:Now you make me want to take what's left of my scooter chassis, and turn it into that same kind of thing...except with a BOB hitch to the dropouts. :)
hehehe, mission accomplished :mrgreen: .

Update:

Motor and Controller are getting pretty hot, designed for 24 Volts I ran "the thing" with 26S NiCd, somewhere 38 Volts hot off
the charger, but it pushes really nice. Not fast at all, perhaps around 20 kph.
Bad thing I don´t find my Turnigy-Wattmeter at the moment.
I think I will have to gear it down a nice amount to be usefull on the hills here.
The old truth: volt up, gear down.

greetings,

christian

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Re: push-trailer from "assorted junk"*

Post by REdiculous » Aug 21, 2011 1:02 pm

20kph is pretty slow, 35kph is more fun.

I just changed the hitch on my pusher to something more bob-like. With the old hitch up near the seat 35kph was intense. I gotta do a couple hours worth of work on it but I'm hoping to hit 40kph today.
I think I will have to gear it down a nice amount to be usefull on the hills here.
I dunno if it's gonna be heavy enough to really push you up serious hills. I think these little single wheel pushers suffer from lack of weight...by the time you put enough weight on to make it up a real hill it's gonna be really hard to control. I'd aim for more speed if I was you..get a good run up before the hills.

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Re: push-trailer from "assorted junk"*

Post by amberwolf » Dec 13, 2012 2:44 am

@emmettbrown: All of your pics appear to have been eaten by the transition problems last year--could you re-upload them? I've been re-pondering doing something like this but without the pics it's harder.... :(

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Re: push-trailer from "assorted junk"*

Post by emmetbrown » Dec 16, 2012 1:30 am

Hi AW and all,
sorry for not posting to this thread for this long time,
but seeing the pictures lost frustrated me a little bit back then :oops: .
The problem right now is I forgot where I uploaded them, simply can't remember the name of the site.
Trying to solve this.

greetings,

christian

edit: I just saw that I uploaded them directly, I hope I made a backup...
need to search right now :shock:

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Re: push-trailer from "assorted junk"*

Post by amberwolf » Dec 16, 2012 2:25 am

I definitely understand your frustration--a lot of us lost pics and other attachments due to the lack of help and foresight of the "prior administration", and there's a lot of older stuff (from people that arent' around anymore) that is worthless without the pics and stuff. :(

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Re: push-trailer from "assorted junk"*

Post by emmetbrown » Dec 16, 2012 3:33 am

Replaced all pictures, I'm glad I found them.

There are no further ongoings on the project till now, about two months after the testride my son was born, so I've had little time beside his first year of growing up and my work to
share with describing-worthy (?) projects.

The friend who wanted to lace up the heinzmann-motor to a 20" rim just had too much work since then, but told me last week that he will have time for it in the next few days or weeks.
So eventually I'm skipping this one ( just leaving it ugly and build a box on top of it ) and will begin with a new trailer frame, of course mostly out of junk :mrgreen: .

greetings,

christian

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