Kona Stinky RC

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rodgah
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Kona Stinky RC

Post by rodgah » Oct 01, 2011 4:08 am

Hey guys,

I have been working on a few complete frames, but decided to get this project going.......talk about too many pies (shut up kim :lol: )

Details:
The frame is boxed out, wheelbase has been extended about 80mm.
80-100 130KV HXT
20:1 Neugart
20AH 12s lipo
Turnigy dlux 160A
CA-RC
206mm SickBikeParts BB.....will be running a inner idle bearing on the BB shaft to support the WI Freewheel on the Cranks.

Image
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Anyone familiar with my other builds will know the process I go through when I design something.....this one is no exception
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Laser cut parts done....
LHS of the bike shows the motor output shaft and hole where the input shaft for the neugart goes, captive bearing, 2 x #25 sprockets and the cover that encloses them.
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RHS of the bike shows the motor shaft(needs to be trimmed) thru a support bearing, output shaft of the neugart, freewheel adapter and the chain tensioner.
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Note the slotted holes......this is to allow the #25 chain tension to be adjusted while still keeping a support bearing on the RHS. The RHS plate moves with the motor, but the neugart stays stationary.

Cutting into the frame box...
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Neugart mounted
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Nutserts :wink:
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Chain guard/cover
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Neugart input shaft, freewheel adapter and #25 sprockets done
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Had the frame changed a little to allow more steering angle....now its close to original steering angle
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Things to do:
Cut hole in frame for batteries
Buy batteries
Buy support bearing for crank set freewheel
Refinish frame (maybe clearcoat)
Wire up.

Cheers,
Rodger
Last edited by rodgah on Dec 07, 2011 2:45 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Kona Stinky RC

Post by rodgah » Oct 01, 2011 4:13 am

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Re: Kona Stinky RC

Post by rodgah » Oct 01, 2011 4:13 am

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Re: Kona Stinky RC

Post by bzhwindtalker » Oct 01, 2011 4:39 am

Thats awesome man, did you cut the tubes as they touch this box or do they extend inside? Did you get the frame heat-treated after that mod? looking forward on how this thing will turn out :wink:

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Re: Kona Stinky RC

Post by rodgah » Oct 01, 2011 4:50 am

The tubes extend into the box, but only just....a little more than the thickness of the wall.

No heat treating, doubt it will be a drama.....not like im going to take it of 20ft drops, im sure the forks would snap before the frame.
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Re: Kona Stinky RC

Post by Philistine » Oct 01, 2011 5:14 am

Holy Jesus that frame is sweet. You have almost singlehandedly achieved the dream of all the ES members who have wanted to get a stealth bomber/fighter frame without the sky high price. How much labour and cost went into modifying the frame? How much heavier is it than the stock frame? That is stunning workmanship. Can't wait to see where you take it.

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rodgah
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Re: Kona Stinky RC

Post by rodgah » Oct 01, 2011 5:53 am

Philistine wrote:Holy Jesus that frame is sweet. You have almost singlehandedly achieved the dream of all the ES members who have wanted to get a stealth bomber/fighter frame without the sky high price. How much labour and cost went into modifying the frame? How much heavier is it than the stock frame? That is stunning workmanship. Can't wait to see where you take it.
oh I have something else in the pipeline that is more of a stealth rival....hub powered. About 3 hours labour and half a 1200x2400 sheet of 3mm 6061 = $300 (including the cover for when I cut the window in it). I would say a bit heavier lol.....maybe 4 kgs or so. Hardly noticeable to me once riding it, considering the weight of everything else its not a worry.
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Re: Kona Stinky RC

Post by Andje » Oct 01, 2011 9:35 am

those welds... are gorgeous.
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Re: Kona Stinky RC

Post by kfong » Oct 01, 2011 9:51 am

Great build, looking forward to the finished design as well as the next one. 20:1 sounds like a torque monster.

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Re: Kona Stinky RC

Post by recumpence » Oct 01, 2011 12:41 pm

Wow, absolutely stunning.........

I love it!

Matt

(oh, you have a box of joy on the way). :wink:
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Re: Kona Stinky RC

Post by Andje » Oct 01, 2011 3:08 pm

I can't stop looking at the bead on that box. you shouldn't paint it; polish it up.
Norco 125 Dirt Jumper
100v 15ah Lipo Backpack
lyens 18 fet, 100v 100 amps, R12 Regen
x5304- 95km/h
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =3&t=24594
Norco A-Line Park 2009
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Re: Kona Stinky RC

Post by Whiplash » Oct 01, 2011 4:07 pm

Very nice job,.... I could just KICK MYSELF IN THE HEAD for selling my TIG. Miller Syncrowave 250DX water cooled torch.... UGH.....!!
Power is a fascinating thing, the more you have, the more you want, but the real power is having the restraint not to use it all at once...............Um...Yeah..

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Re: Kona Stinky RC

Post by AussieJester » Oct 01, 2011 4:22 pm

Nice to finally see it with wheels on it Wodger :-P

Got a pix of the one Timma built for you as a size comparison?

These "Favours" your calling in to get this stiff built must be running low buy now
Lucky you're CUB and can afford to pay them when they do :-P

Best of luck getting it running mate, look the bomb thus far :-)

KiM

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Re: Kona Stinky RC

Post by rodgah » Oct 01, 2011 8:41 pm

Philistine wrote:sky high price
Thinking about that, I can really see where stealths price comes from, small things do add up. If you were to build one yourself yes it would cost half as much, but the amount of R&D they have done, after purchase support, warantee......it really does come down to making money. To build it yourself there is just the cost of the parts and labour (if you need it).

anyways back on track...
kfong wrote:20:1 sounds like a torque monster.
yep, I think I will be limiting the amp limit down (CA-RC) quite a bit, It is only going to have a top speed of around 50km/h on purpose to make it easier to ride slower.....but the power will be brutal :twisted:
recumpence wrote:Wow, absolutely stunning.........

I love it!

Matt

(oh, you have a box of joy on the way). :wink:
cheers Matt.....can you PM me a tracking number?
Andje wrote:I can't stop looking at the bead on that box. you shouldn't paint it; polish it up.
its pretty good, if I had of spent more time getting the meeting edges of the box perfectly straight, the welds would be even better. I dont really like high polished aluminium, I would prefer the finish it has(maybe a little more neater with 800grit) and then clear coated to preserve it and stop the grubby finger prints.
AussieJester wrote:Nice to finally see it with wheels on it Wodger
it always had wheels on it :roll: i just paint stripped the rest of the frame. Not sure but I might do the rear triangle aswell. Still need to remove the front derailer cable guide and a cable guide near the top of the shock. Now what to mount to the DOPE mount I dont know, the DOPE system is too $$$$.
AussieJester wrote:Got a pix of the one Timma built for you as a size comparison?
shhhh......and no i dont have it yet
AussieJester wrote:These "Favours" your calling in to get this stiff built must be running low buy now
no favours $80/hr :roll: .......but the money helps


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Re: Kona Stinky RC

Post by panurge » Oct 02, 2011 11:03 am

Hi Rodgah

This is a beautiful work with fine weldings.... (personally I don't like virtual pivots, even more for these kind of travels but is not concerning you built...)

BRAVO!!!

I've some questions about the gearbox.....is it a PLE 60 or 80? I have both (8:1) as candidates parts for my DH-build (probably with an astro 3220) but seems that the 60 series that has a relatively reasonable weight may have problems to handle the torque.....otherwise the 80 that can do the job has not a reasonable weight for my intentions.....

What is your total reduction factor motorshaft-wheel?

Can't wait to see the "monster" in action.... 8)

Jules
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Re: Kona Stinky RC

Post by rodgah » Oct 02, 2011 6:31 pm

panurge wrote:is it a PLE 60 or 80?
Mine is a PLE80 and yes I know what you mean about weight.....it weighs as much as a HXT. But it is the only thing I have found with enough reduction to run thru the cranks and still have decent torque handling. The other thing that is a problem is the 3 stage box's are wide/long. Long enough that it throws out the chain alignment and requires a super long BB just to step in the chain line to the rear wheel.
panurge wrote:What is your total reduction factor motorshaft-wheel?
ok here is my math.....

50V x 130KV = 6500RPM / 20(neugart) = 325RPM

16 / 34 = 0.47 x 325 = 152 RPM (16t WI eno to 34t chainring....pedal candescance....no way I can keep up with that)
16 / 18 = 0.88 x 325 = 286 RPM (rear wheel RPM)

286 x 2167mm Dia = 619762 x 60min = 37185720 / 1000000 = 37.18 Km/h

This is assuming a 1:1 reduction between the motor and gearbox. I will try this for starters, if the power is too rediculous then I will change it to gain more speed. My intentions are running the motor like this will ensure little/no heat, and since it is enclosed inside of the frame this is a good thing :mrgreen: . I might even try a smaller motor with more KV if it works well.

I cant wait either !

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Re: Kona Stinky RC

Post by panurge » Oct 03, 2011 9:54 am

Thanks for your infos, very useful....

The motor-neugart ratio was indeed what I was looking for, 1:1 for a 20:1 gearbox sounds adequate....If I will use it (8:1) I plan to reach near the same ratio using a 2-2.5:1 motor to neugart sprocket (or pulley) reduction.

Also.....go thru the crank/derailleur with this amount of torque and a bicycle chain/freehub is truly reliable?

Regards

Jules
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Re: Kona Stinky RC

Post by rodgah » Oct 03, 2011 5:14 pm

panurge wrote:Also.....go thru the crank/derailleur with this amount of torque and a bicycle chain/freehub is truly reliable?
I am using single speed chains.....and I am putting a single sprocket on the free hub just so I can use a single speed chain. Multi speed chains are weak as piss. The second issue is that the freewheel on the cranks has only a single row bearing....and therefore doesnt resist twisting forces very well while freewheeling. For that issue I am running a seperate supporting bearing further up the BB shaft. The freehub on the bike has put up with >14KW without dieing but time will tell, i know they atleast put up with a decent amount of power for a while before giving up. This is only a cheap shimano body so cheap to replace.

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Re: Kona Stinky RC

Post by bandaro » Oct 03, 2011 9:29 pm

14 Kw? that's awesome! So have you ever thought about chucking a bearing on the other end of the freewheel so it will take the torque the motor will put on it?

Assuming I have read it right, you believe the weak spot in the freewheel will be due to the single row of bearings and not a weak one way assembly? could be worth getting a bearing and fitting it in the right hand side of the freewheel just to see how it holds up, then you could have more speed!

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Re: Kona Stinky RC

Post by AussieJester » Oct 03, 2011 9:38 pm

Rodgah has headed back to the mines
replies to questions may be a littler longer than usual...

KiM

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Re: Kona Stinky RC

Post by Miles » Oct 03, 2011 10:56 pm

bandaro wrote:So have you ever thought about chucking a bearing on the other end of the freewheel so it will take the torque the motor will put on it?

Assuming I have read it right, you believe the weak spot in the freewheel will be due to the single row of bearings and not a weak one way assembly? could be worth getting a bearing and fitting it in the right hand side of the freewheel just to see how it holds up, then you could have more speed!
See: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... 28&t=25153

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Re: Kona Stinky RC

Post by recumpence » Oct 04, 2011 7:29 am

bandaro wrote:14 Kw? that's awesome! So have you ever thought about chucking a bearing on the other end of the freewheel so it will take the torque the motor will put on it?

Assuming I have read it right, you believe the weak spot in the freewheel will be due to the single row of bearings and not a weak one way assembly? could be worth getting a bearing and fitting it in the right hand side of the freewheel just to see how it holds up, then you could have more speed!
He mentioned earlier in this thread that he is adding a second bearing to support the freewheel.

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Re: Kona Stinky RC

Post by crusoe » Nov 02, 2011 8:39 am

Can you post more pictures of the insides of your amazing frame box?

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Re: Kona Stinky RC

Post by rodgah » Nov 03, 2011 1:38 am

I haven't cut into the box yet, though it would look fairly similar inside to the outside :lol:

I am just finishing off another build then this one is my focus.

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Re: Kona Stinky RC

Post by waynebergman » Nov 05, 2011 10:42 am

Nice batch of frames there. Is there another thread on the go for the DD hub build you have on the go. I have a tig welder myself and I will be fabricating an enclosure for my batteries up in the main triangle of my 2004 Team DH Giant for battery storage and its nice to see what others are doing with fabricated enclosures welded to or fastened to the frame. ...............thanks Wayne

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