Little Big Bad II

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
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dingoEsride
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Re: Little Big Bad II

Post by dingoEsride » Dec 22, 2011 2:43 am

Nice going Simon, this build will put you in a different league, with regards to taping yes go back 1 to 2 clockwise or so, I like the turnigy motor I thought they were hard to come by, good luck in the future with the build

mark
ride like the wind

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sn0wchyld
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Re: Little Big Bad II

Post by sn0wchyld » Dec 22, 2011 8:53 am

sico wrote:Thanks for the complements lads. Snowy, I just brought the mill a few weeks ago, so still need plenty of practice :)
....

do you mind if I ask where you got it and the $$?

also, what's the weight of those alloy plates? im just starting on my own RC build using a 6374 to start, before upgrading to a 8085 or 80100... even with access to my uni's equipment im tempted to get a mill, looks like fun!

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sico
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Re: Little Big Bad II

Post by sico » Dec 22, 2011 8:41 pm

dingoEsride wrote:Nice going Simon, this build will put you in a different league, with regards to taping yes go back 1 to 2 clockwise or so, I like the turnigy motor I thought they were hard to come by, good luck in the future with the build

mark
Thanks Mark. I've had the Turnigy for over a year, before they stopped getting them at HK. The 80100's are hard to come by, but Leaders Hobbies showed there were 8085s avaiable last I looked. I don't know if that's a lie though, as it seems they are not above saying they are stocked to secure an order.
Snowy wrote:do you mind if I ask where you got it and the $$?

also, what's the weight of those alloy plates? im just starting on my own RC build using a 6374 to start, before upgrading to a 8085 or 80100... even with access to my uni's equipment im tempted to get a mill, looks like fun!
Hi mate, I brought it from Hare and Forbes machinery house for around $1700, then I paid about $800 for tooling and about $300 for a rotary table. Its far too easy to spend money on this stuff, but I'm pretty satisfied with this setup for now. It certainly is fun :)

In the next couple of years I'm planning to CNC the whole lot. 8)

Here are the CAD :wink: drawings, the plate is 10mm ali, so you can probably use some of your engineering skills to calculate the weight:
P1020824_800x600.jpg
dwg1
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P1020825_800x600.jpg
dwg2
P1020825_800x600.jpg (86.85 KiB) Viewed 1723 times
I can tell you that the weight of these mounts is quite a bit less than the weight of the motor, so I don't think its a big issue. Anyway, with the lightening holes the motor plate weighs next to nothing :wink: :D

Here is a mock up of the mount and jackshaft on the bike:
P1020822_800x600.jpg
mnt1
P1020822_800x600.jpg (125.92 KiB) Viewed 1723 times
P1020823_800x600.jpg
mnt2
P1020823_800x600.jpg (106.35 KiB) Viewed 1723 times
I'm waiting for a few more parts now. My next task is probably to try putting hall sensors in the motor, though I'm not particularly looking forward to it. :?

Simon.

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sico
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Re: Little Big Bad II

Post by sico » Dec 26, 2011 9:33 pm

Ok, here is my experience with hall sensors in the 8085.

I got the ss4111a sensors from rs online.

I wired this one up to test with my high tech teting device (a magnet on a stick). The hall switches between 0 and 400mV when you move the magnet from one side of the hall to the other, so that's good:
P1020842_800x600.jpg
test
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Threading the wires through:
P1020843_800x600.jpg
thread
P1020843_800x600.jpg (94.43 KiB) Viewed 1704 times
and blue-tacked into place for testing purposes:
P1020845_800x600.jpg
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After testing a few combinations I found this one that works:
P1020853_800x600.jpg
P1020853_800x600.jpg (106.17 KiB) Viewed 1704 times
But it has a few quirks, and I'd like to hear peoples opinions on.

The controller is a cellman 9 FET.

The first thing is that the motor only works in the first part of the throttle movement, when you go past a certain point it just stops.

The max amps unloaded before it it drops out is about 1.8-2A

I got my buddie to load it up by pressing a rag wrapped piece of wood against the side of it and we got it up to 4A.

It seems to be RPM rather than load related.

Could it be related to the programming of the controller?

Any advice would be great!

Cheers,

Simon

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Thud
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Re: Little Big Bad II

Post by Thud » Dec 27, 2011 12:03 am

Sico,
armchair quaterbacking here, but i have some experiance with the xiechang controllers & the problems your experiancing.

#1) the throtle "cutting-out" issue is a well documented problem with these conrollers paired with high rpm/low resistance motors. its all discovered & reversed engineered in this thread:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =2&t=16910

Bigmoose explains why such a circut is nessisary:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... &start=105

#2) my 1st recomdation is solder a 1k resistor accross the C20 capcitor. This is the easyest way to beef up the cotroller's throttle responce without totaly dodging the current ratings your programed for.
next is get comfortable with flashing the software settings (i don't know if cellman provides a programing connection or not) I am a fan of the XPD programming stuff you'll find here:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =2&t=27927

#3) Now for the bad news. I seriously doubt you are going to be satisfied with a 9fet controller. I blew 6fet controllers to smitherines with the 80/100's (then again I have vaporised 12 & 18 fet & castle hv160 controllers playing Rusian Routlett with them)

I am currently running 12fet units & they are good for about 5kw for a 15 minute run befor getting into thermal trouble (loaded with irfp3077 fet's same with 4110's) I just recieved a batch of 18fet kits from kewin to push to the next level.
I also find the cotrollers are far less tempermental on a wye terminated motor. but with carful set up Delta will work also.
you need to have the halls in the correct position for the rotation in delta. the internal set up has proven to be the most reliable in my experiance.

thats enough for now. Good Luck.
get some......

All information & advice provided by Thud are "Open Source" & free for personal use & distribution under the following agreement linked below.
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/3.0/

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sico
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Re: Little Big Bad II

Post by sico » Dec 27, 2011 2:00 am

HI Thud, thanks for the detailed reply. :) I simultaneously stumbled on one of those links and realise the answer was already out there. I found this thread to have the answers at the front: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... =2&t=16910, so could be included in the new wiki if its not already there.

I'm actually only using this controller for testing the halls and plan to use my Lyen 12 fet on the actual bike, which I have a cable for and access to Lyens software, so that I can do:

"Selecting "EB212" instead of "EB206"",

which I don't currently understand but will have to figure out when the time comes.

At the moment the 12 fet is being used on my hubbie comuter. The 9C hubbie is coming unlaced from its wheel, one spoke at a time and at some point I will replace it with a Mac hubbie. The mac hubbie will be controlled by this 9 fet cellman controller and I'll be reprogramming the 12 fet to control the 8085.

So to cut a long story short, if this test confirms that the halls are good, I'll go ahead and glue them in and move on for the time being. 8)

Having said that, I do have a golden motor controller here so I reckon I'll try that and if it doesn't work, maybe I'll try one of the hardware fixes ...

Cheers,

Simon.

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sico
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Re: Little Big Bad II

Post by sico » Dec 27, 2011 2:33 am

Scratch that, the Zhidong controller (supplied with my golden motor) just when phut, quite a loud and powerful sounding phut actually. I suppose that was an electolytic capacitor, I post pics of the carnage soon.

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AussieJester
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Re: Little Big Bad II

Post by AussieJester » Dec 27, 2011 2:45 am

sico wrote:Scratch that, the Zhidong controller (supplied with my golden motor) just when phut, quite a loud and powerful sounding phut actually. I suppose that was an electolytic capacitor, I post pics of the carnage soon.
Thats the sound my 12fet made...3 times now it was the big 64v cap popping each time.
I'm with Thud you won't get fark all joy with a 6fet just when it starts getting fun ~5000watt
they shit themselves HAHA...i have 2 12fet Infineons here both farked but need only small things done to them all the fets are ok...i connected the battery leads back to front on one and blew the shunt as far as i can see visually
theres no other damage, perhaps take both with ya rob one two fix the other? Might do you till
you get something better? One has the 3077fets and the other the 4115 IIRC...I can swap parts if i know whats wrong but know clue how to test for what is blown and whats not....

KiM

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sico
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Re: Little Big Bad II

Post by sico » Dec 27, 2011 3:06 am

Kim, thanks for the offer, I'll see how I go and get back to you. :) I have the same issue with electronics, although I worked as an electronic assembler for a while, so I'm pretty good at taking components in and out ... if you tell me which ones to do that to.

Here's the zhidong:
P1020857_800x600.jpg
P1020857_800x600.jpg (88.09 KiB) Viewed 1682 times
Everything seems perfectly fine ...
P1020858_800x600.jpg
P1020858_800x600.jpg (204.34 KiB) Viewed 1682 times
Until we turn it over ...
P1020859_800x600.jpg
P1020859_800x600.jpg (127.74 KiB) Viewed 1682 times
The diode appears to have a large crack down the middle of it.
P1020855_800x600.jpg
P1020855_800x600.jpg (98.87 KiB) Viewed 1682 times
Now get out of the way of the cricket :wink: :|

Cheers,

Simon

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dingoEsride
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Re: Little Big Bad II

Post by dingoEsride » Dec 29, 2011 9:13 pm

sico wrote:Here's the zhidong:
with a name like that what do you expect, I never trust anything with a name thats hard to pronounce (jocking of course)

go ozzies in the cricket
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sico
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Re: Little Big Bad II

Post by sico » Dec 29, 2011 11:31 pm

dingoEsride wrote:
sico wrote:Here's the zhidong:
with a name like that what do you expect, I never trust anything with a name thats hard to pronounce (jocking of course)

go ozzies in the cricket
Yes, a very good win, one of the best in a few years I think. Not for the spectacle, but just for the promise that is showing in the bowling ranks since the retirement of McGrath and Warnie.

I got a few more components for the bike so might be some updates soon if I can get motivated to go out to the shed.

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Re: Little Big Bad II

Post by Spicerack » Dec 29, 2011 11:49 pm

Subscribed. Might inspire me for my mid drive when I get round to it... once I've put my MAC back together...

Just a couple of tips for the future if you ever break off taps again- you can use oxy very carefully to get the tap as hot as possible, which may soften the metal just enough to drill it, or the more preferred method is a nut or square of steel with hole in it over the tap, weld through the hole onto the tap then the nut or square, then you can unwind the tap from the hole. I've done that a few times over the years!
Norco Shore2
Was Cellman MAC rear oil cooled then 8x8 9C vented and temp probed now 9x7 9C vented and temp probed!
12 FET controller
62V 18650 home made battery pack
50 km/h
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =6&t=32769
MAC Repair thread https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =2&t=34806
Oil cooling the MAC hubbie https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =2&t=37972

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