GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by Denisesewa » Jan 10 2013 7:59pm

Saamilapp wrote:Does anyone know how the BB mount attaches to the crank. It looks like a set of bearings is needed ( one on each side) for the mount to attach to the crank? So I guess my question is, are there bearings that fit into the BB mount where it rides on the crank?
I'm not sure I understand your question but, the pedal spindle is part of a sealed bearing unit which screws into the frame sandwiching the motor mount between its flange and the frame, on the other side there is a cup and flange nut which screws into the frame and centers the spindle /bearing assembly and also sandwiches the motor mount between the cups flange nut and the frame.
hopes that helps ?

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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by bee » Jan 10 2013 11:05pm

Denisesewa wrote: The bike should work fine as it is very much like my trials bike build >>http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 28&t=45919 << At least two of us are running 5000Mah Turnigy Lipos ( Me and BZHwindtalker),others are running Zippy's and just about everything thats out there, I am running 14 cells in series for a total of 58 volts hot off the charger, on my first bike I am using 2ea 5 cell and 1ea 4 cell packs in series and two of these units in parrellal to get 10 AH capacity, on my second bike I am just running 1 for 5 AH to lighten the load.
for a 48 volt setup you could just run 2 6 cell packs in series, I know its tediouse but you really should go to page one and read spinningmagnets first post which has links to everyones builds and info concerning this kit, then read this entire thread probably more than once to decide which setup you want to go with. so far this kit has shown to have a killer motor and is easy to install, the devil is in the details though if you want it to work reliably and get the most out of it.
Thanks for the advice. I've read most of the thread and have looked at all the various configs people have put together, some very impressive stuff!

Right now I am about to hit the trigger on the following parts:
2x http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... ories.html
2x http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... _Pack.html
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... lyzer.html
And the 48v/450w GNG motor.

Does that sound like a good config for a lightweight high torque setup?

I will likely play with this setup for a while, then upgrade the chain, controller, and possibly add another two batteries in parallel for 16ah.
Last edited by bee on Jan 10 2013 11:40pm, edited 2 times in total.
Chalo wrote:Hydraulic [suspension] is just vanity and moto-fetishism at anything in the range of attainable bicycle speeds.
2002 Devinci Magma - 117v GNG

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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by LightningRods » Jan 10 2013 11:09pm

Saamilapp wrote:Does anyone know how the BB mount attaches to the crank. It looks like a set of bearings is needed ( one on each side) for the mount to attach to the crank? So I guess my question is, are there bearings that fit into the BB mount where it rides on the crank?
I'm in the process of modifying and assembling my GNG. Here is the bottom bracket assembly:

Image

Image

Image

Image
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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by rpgear » Jan 11 2013 4:43am

Several sources have been discussed in this thread on where to buy the GNG drive. What is the best source, considering a balance of price, shipping cost and receiving the package in one piece?

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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by adrian_sm » Jan 11 2013 6:16am

bee wrote: Right now I am about to hit the trigger on the following parts:
2x http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... ories.html
2x http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... _Pack.html
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... lyzer.html
And the 48v/450w GNG motor.

Does that sound like a good config for a lightweight high torque setup?

I will likely play with this setup for a while, then upgrade the chain, controller, and possibly add another two batteries in parallel for 16ah.
Those chargers are only 50w, which is pretty slow. I would go for faster ones personally, something like these 200w models:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... duct=12105
Build #1 ~28kg ~ 700w Avanti Hardtail Crystalyte 408, 48V10Ah Headway. ~5500 kms to date. (retired)
Build #2 ~30kg ~2000w Giant AC Dually Crystalyte 408, 48V10Ah Headway + 6s10Ah LiPo = 70V. ~15000 kms to date [SOLD]
Build #3 ~13kg ~2000w Commuter Booster <1kg Friction Drive
Build #??? ~21kg ~1500w Adrian's Bafang BPM Hardtail MTB Bafang BPM code12, 15s LiPo, ~40kph, ~30kms

Denisesewa   100 W

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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by Denisesewa » Jan 11 2013 9:29am

bee wrote:
Denisesewa wrote: The bike should work fine as it is very much like my trials bike build >>http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 28&t=45919 << At least two of us are running 5000Mah Turnigy Lipos ( Me and BZHwindtalker),others are running Zippy's and just about everything thats out there, I am running 14 cells in series for a total of 58 volts hot off the charger, on my first bike I am using 2ea 5 cell and 1ea 4 cell packs in series and two of these units in parrellal to get 10 AH capacity, on my second bike I am just running 1 for 5 AH to lighten the load.
for a 48 volt setup you could just run 2 6 cell packs in series, I know its tediouse but you really should go to page one and read spinningmagnets first post which has links to everyones builds and info concerning this kit, then read this entire thread probably more than once to decide which setup you want to go with. so far this kit has shown to have a killer motor and is easy to install, the devil is in the details though if you want it to work reliably and get the most out of it.
Thanks for the advice. I've read most of the thread and have looked at all the various configs people have put together, some very impressive stuff!

Right now I am about to hit the trigger on the following parts:
2x http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... ories.html
2x http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... _Pack.html
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... lyzer.html
And the 48v/450w GNG motor.


Does that sound like a good config for a lightweight high torque setup?

I will likely play with this setup for a while, then upgrade the chain, controller, and possibly add another two batteries in parallel for 16ah.
I have to agree on the charger , pretty slow and at 6s you have to charge each pack individualy, I went ahead and bought a Hyperion which will charge 14S and dont regret it.
http://www.allerc.com/hyperion-eos-1420 ... -5962.html
When you say "high torque" thats a relative phrase, in the beginning I thought the stock kit would have more torque than it actually did but My expectations may have been too high, the nice thing is doing the primary chain conversion frees up alot of wasted power and makes it reliable, and upping the amps is the key to really good performance, since I ordered a Lyen controller I went against advice and soldered a staple in the second shunt slot in the stock controller, this has turned out to be working just fine and increased the amps by 20%, took a total of five minutes to do at the cost of possibly losing Low voltage cut off, which is what I use the watt meter for. The Lyen has allowed fine tuning through programming and I'm glad I bought it but not so much that I will buy another one for the second bike which is now running the staple modded stock one. ( I now have some shunt material I will probably replace the staple with), upping the amps and reducing the drag of the belt turned this kit into a mini monster but this also comes at the cost of throttle sensitivity, which I have finally tamed by going to a Magura throttle and adding adjustable resistors to fine tune.
Its been an interesting, fun, frustrating couple of projects, OK i'll shut up now :oops:

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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by Ariane » Jan 11 2013 9:39am

Hi Christer,

I will follow you Kona Stinky thread with as great interest I really love the chain encapsulation. I already have a 48 or 52 Tooth chain wheel on my current bike I can reuse this sprocket with the GNG drive I hope, Has for the chain reduction, I think that you use chain #25 right ?

Good day!
Black Arrow

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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by Ariane » Jan 11 2013 9:45am

Denisesewa wrote:
Its been an interesting, fun, frustrating couple of projects, OK I'll shut up now :oops:
??? Why I like to have your point of view about this GNG kit and you have done an amazing work to make it work better, many people like you and Christer to name a few has more experiences with those kit than anyone else, it's always a pleasure to read this thread for me, thanks for your knowledge and experiments.

Good day!
Black Arrow

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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by LightningRods » Jan 11 2013 9:54am

rpgear wrote:Several sources have been discussed in this thread on where to buy the GNG drive. What is the best source, considering a balance of price, shipping cost and receiving the package in one piece?
Mister Tao is the best price I've heard of ($156) but it took a month even with $137 express shipping. Also your goods get shipped twice, first from the TaoBao seller and then from Mr. Tao. Here is the list of damage to my kit as received:

Primary belt guard bent. Support stud for belt tensioner bent until it cracked the tapped hole in the motor case. Belt tensioner delivered without adjuster spring. Bottom bracket sheet bent and racked. Pedal cranks badly surface marred from banging into other metal parts without protection. Small chainwheel bent 1/4" out of true. Several cooling fins on motor bent. Secondary chain tensioner improperly assembled with incorrect spacing for chain alignment. Chain tensioner badly smashed/racked. Upper sheets racked. Packet of hardware torn open with contents loose in box. (Possibly the chimps at US Customs).

My kit arrived as a mess despite paying for the fast shipping. It seems that someone, somewhere along the way took my tensioners apart to examine them. I can't believe that GNG would send a kit out with no tensioner spring on the primary belt side and the spacers stacked wrong on the secondary chain side so that the tensioner was rubbing the motor case.

If I hadn't planned on disassembling everything on receipt and redesigning half of it, I would have been severely bummed.

My opinion is that it's worth paying the GNG factory the extra $80 to save time, more prying fingers and damage to your kit. Your mileage may vary.
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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by LightningRods » Jan 11 2013 10:10am

Denisesewa wrote: When you say "high torque" thats a relative phrase, in the beginning I thought the stock kit would have more torque than it actually did but My expectations may have been too high, the nice thing is doing the primary chain conversion frees up alot of wasted power and makes it reliable, and upping the amps is the key to really good performance, since I ordered a Lyen controller I went against advice and soldered a staple in the second shunt slot in the stock controller, this has turned out to be working just fine and increased the amps by 20%, took a total of five minutes to do at the cost of possibly losing Low voltage cut off, which is what I use the watt meter for. The Lyen has allowed fine tuning through programming and I'm glad I bought it but not so much that I will buy another one for the second bike which is now running the staple modded stock one. ( I now have some shunt material I will probably replace the staple with), upping the amps and reducing the drag of the belt turned this kit into a mini monster but this also comes at the cost of throttle sensitivity, which I have finally tamed by going to a Magura throttle and adding adjustable resistors to fine tune.
I am starting to be amused by your claims of being "electronically incompetent". I would say that's only possibly true relative to your physical fabricating skills. :lol:

When you feel like you have your whole hot rod battery/controller/throttle setup pretty well sorted please post the entire mod if you would. I follow your threads but of course there is a lot of experimenting and backtracking. I'd love to have your (somewhat) final conclusions.
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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by christerljung » Jan 11 2013 10:15am

BlackArrow wrote:Hi Christer,

I will follow you Kona Stinky thread with as great interest I really love the chain encapsulation. I already have a 48 or 52 Tooth chain wheel on my current bike I can reuse this sprocket with the GNG drive I hope, Has for the chain reduction, I think that you use chain #25 right ?

Good day!
Black Arrow
Thats correct. I got the #25 chain. It looks a little weak, but will see. I didn´t put any effort in the conversion, it was more of a test. Both my sprockets had a terrible runout but it worked fine for the test anyway, See vid:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byGLhX36iBw
Since we got alot of snow here now i cant do any tests at the moment. What was most suprising with the #25 chain, was the really low noise.
Do you have any advise were to find a 52 tooth chainwheel?
Last edited by christerljung on Jan 11 2013 2:01pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by Ariane » Jan 11 2013 10:22am

Hi Christer,

Thank you, its winter here also, I got my 52 Tooth chain wheel from a dealer here, but normally for bike component I bought most of my stuff from "Chain Reaction" great service, great price and fast shipping for almost anything that we need on a bike.

Good day!
Black Arrow

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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by Denisesewa » Jan 11 2013 10:47am

LightningRods wrote:
Denisesewa wrote:
I am starting to be amused by your claims of being "electronically incompetent". I would say that's only possibly true relative to your physical fabricating skills. :lol:

When you feel like you have your whole hot rod battery/controller/throttle setup pretty well sorted please post the entire mod if you would. I follow your threads but of course there is a lot of experimenting and backtracking. I'd love to have your (somewhat) final conclusions.
My electronic ability is almost entirely based on what I have read here on the forums over the past couple months and the fact that I am stubborn as hell, I hate being defeated by electrons.
when I recieve the second magura I'll try to take pics of how to reclock the gears and the resistor mod. I think the stock throttle will never be acceptable except for commuting, especially if you happen to recieve the one with the contured grip.
do you think I should start a new thread?

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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by LightningRods » Jan 11 2013 10:54am

Denisesewa wrote: when I recieve the second magura I'll try to take pics of how to reclock the gears and the resistor mod. I think the stock throttle will never be acceptable except for commuting, especially if you happen to recieve the one with the contured grip.
do you think I should start a new thread?
Of COURSE I got the throttle with the contoured grip. :( Speaking for myself I'd like a separate thread on your mods with a build link in your signature. Thanks!
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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by gwhy! » Jan 11 2013 11:01am

I think some one should make a sticky thread for twitchy throttle mods as this comes up all to often and there seems to be quite a few ways of minimizing the problem and not just unique to this kit.

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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by teklektik » Jan 11 2013 11:34am

Magura gear fix from 2008...
Not always necessary - I have three Maguras - all perfect out-of-box.
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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by Denisesewa » Jan 11 2013 11:40am

teklektik wrote:Magura gear fix from 2008...
Not always necessary - I have three Maguras - all perfect out-of-box.
I think it may have alot to do with what controller you are using, the GNG controller seems to have a very narrow range.

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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by teklektik » Jan 11 2013 1:25pm

Denisesewa wrote:
teklektik wrote:Magura gear fix from 2008...
Not always necessary - I have three Maguras - all perfect out-of-box.
I think it may have alot to do with what controller you are using, the GNG controller seems to have a very narrow range.
Actually, this cannot be true. The trimpots adjust the minimum and maximum voltages applied to the controller - these adjustments can accommodate the input range of any controller. It is possible to adjust the low trimpot so that the motor just begins to creep and similarly to adjust the high trimpot so that higher voltages cause no increase in motor rpm (i.e. the throttle ZERO and WOT voltages are on the lo/hi boundaries of the controller valid input range). Any dead zone in the throttle between these voltages can only arise because of some range of motion within the throttle itself that produces no resistance change - it cannot be controller-dependent.
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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by Denisesewa » Jan 11 2013 1:42pm

teklektik wrote:
Denisesewa wrote:
teklektik wrote:Magura gear fix from 2008...
Not always necessary - I have three Maguras - all perfect out-of-box.
I think it may have alot to do with what controller you are using, the GNG controller seems to have a very narrow range.
Actually, this cannot be true. The trimpots adjust the minimum and maximum voltages applied to the controller - these adjustments can accommodate the input range of any controller. It is possible to adjust the low trimpot so that the motor just begins to creep and similarly to adjust the high trimpot so that higher voltages cause no increase in motor rpm (i.e. the throttle ZERO and WOT voltages are on the lo/hi boundaries of the controller valid input range). Any dead zone in the throttle between these voltages can only arise because of some range of motion within the throttle itself that produces no resistance change - it cannot be controller-dependent.
OK, thats good to know BUT, I found that if you do increase resistance to the point of crawling the throttle then becomes inoperable, this happened with the stock throttle and the magura, no amount of adjusting would eliminate the dead space and have the throttle still function without increasing the dead space at the top end, As you well know I have gained alot of understanding from you but still lack about 90% so I can only relate whats happened "real world" so in the optimum settings I could get it really just moved the dead space around a slight amount without really changing the ratio of Twist to response much or eliminating the dead space.

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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by christerljung » Jan 11 2013 1:59pm

Another way to go with the throttle could be to use the three powerlevels in the lyen controller. Then trigger these levels depending on the throttle position. First 1/3 of twist could engage low level power mode, then the second power level get trigged by the voltage level from the throttle and finally full power at , say 90%. If there still is a dead space between 80 and 100% in original, then it would be nice to trigger floored level at 90%.
Last edited by christerljung on Jan 11 2013 4:50pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by teklektik » Jan 11 2013 2:26pm

teklektik wrote:
Denisesewa wrote:I think it may have alot to do with what controller you are using, the GNG controller seems to have a very narrow range.
... Any dead zone in the throttle between these voltages can only arise because of some range of motion within the throttle itself that produces no resistance change - it cannot be controller-dependent.
Denisesewa wrote:... no amount of adjusting would eliminate the dead space...
Perhaps I did not present this well - I am not doubting that clocking the gears provided an effective solution - I was trying to make the point that there is nothing unique to the GNG controller that would make it necessary (for a properly functioning Magura) - the dead zone appears to be an issue with your particular throttle and which has been experienced in the past with Maguras and other controllers (see link in above post). Clocking the gears provided a solution in those cases as well. You did good - it just looks like your throttle was a little off - not the controller.
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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by Chalo » Jan 11 2013 2:34pm

Miles wrote:
Chalo wrote:A freewheel specifically designed to overrun while loaded would be suitable for the application, but bicycle freewheels-- however nicely made or expensive-- are not designed to do this job.
They're all we've got, at the moment.

The ENO bearing is at least replaceable and it is a radial bearing.
The White ENO freewheel in combination with a GNG type crank that has a second support bearing is probably the best currently available solution for those who feel they need a freewheeling chainring.

But I hasten to point out that there is already a robust, proven, inexpensive and lightweight solution to the overall technical problem. Just don't use a freewheeled crank. It works for Stokemonkey and it can work just as well for others.

'
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by Denisesewa » Jan 11 2013 2:52pm

But I hasten to point out that there is already a robust, proven, inexpensive and lightweight solution to the overall technical problem. Just don't use a freewheeled crank. It works for Stokemonkey and it can work just as well for others.

'[/quote]
This is a rediculous Idea especially for this kit which excells at offroad riding and has a pedal cadence which no one could keep up with, I ride a fixed gear roadbike and even on the road pedal strikes at speed can have catastrophic results.
Let it go dude, no one is going to give up the freewheel, and I dont even know why I'm responding to this other than sick of reading about it. Nuff said.

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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by Miles » Jan 11 2013 3:02pm

A left plus right, dual freewheeling crankset, would allow both freewheels to throughput the load in their engaged state.

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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by bzhwindtalker » Jan 11 2013 4:04pm

Denisesewa wrote:This is a rediculous Idea especially for this kit which excells at offroad riding and has a pedal cadence which no one could keep up with, I ride a fixed gear roadbike and even on the road pedal strikes at speed can have catastrophic results.
Let it go dude, no one is going to give up the freewheel, and I dont even know why I'm responding to this other than sick of reading about it. Nuff said.
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