GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

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Thud   100 MW

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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by Thud » Jan 23 2013 6:59pm

here is a handy chain length/center distance calculator
http://www.botlanta.org/converters/dale ... ocket.html
just type in the pitch of your sprockets & tooth counts
get some......

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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by rpgear » Jan 23 2013 7:17pm

Got my sheets and spacers from LightningRods today. Pure eye candy.The cut edges are smoother than the GNG plates.
Anyone know of a good company in the US that can plate the sheets to match the GNG sheets? I'm assuming they nickel plated them.

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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by LightningRods » Jan 23 2013 9:05pm

rpgear wrote:Got my sheets and spacers from LightningRods today. Pure eye candy.The cut edges are smoother than the GNG plates.
:D
rpgear wrote: Anyone know of a good company in the US that can plate the sheets to match the GNG sheets? I'm assuming they nickel plated them.
I think the finish on the GNG is just industrial chrome. It's a pretty common finish. It should be available in almost any major commercial town. It may cost you more than the sheets however. Most plating shops don't do an Endless-Sphere discount. :mrgreen:
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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by teklektik » Jan 23 2013 9:09pm

LightningRods wrote:
rpgear wrote: Anyone know of a good company in the US that can plate the sheets to match the GNG sheets? I'm assuming they nickel plated them.
I think the finish on the GNG is just industrial chrome. It's a pretty common finish. It should be available in almost any major commercial town. It may cost you more than the sheets however. Most plating shops don't do an Endless-Sphere discount. :mrgreen:
Stop by your local motorcycle shop and ask where they get their plating done.
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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by speedmd » Jan 23 2013 9:14pm

Are the plates steel or aluminum? Magnet will tell.

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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by Denisesewa » Jan 23 2013 9:18pm

speedmd wrote:Are the plates steel or aluminum? Magnet will tell.
Steel

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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by speedmd » Jan 23 2013 9:55pm

Steel would possibly be what my guys call bright zinc plated. Many hardware folks are using that now.

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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by LightningRods » Jan 23 2013 11:22pm

speedmd wrote:Steel would possibly be what my guys call bright zinc plated. Many hardware folks are using that now.
I read up a bit. I think you're right, speedmd. I think of zinc plating in terms of 'galvanizing' which is a dull silver finish. You can put zinc plated parts into a tumbler to polish them or use any other method you'd use to polish metal. Polished zinc looks a lot like chrome but is not as hard. You should be able to get this done very cheaply. Zinc is one of the cheapest metals to buy and zinc plating is used on all kinds of hardware. It's corrosion resistant and probably the most common plating process for steel parts.
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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by heathyoung » Jan 23 2013 11:34pm

Nope. Its most likely cadmium plating (like bolts etc from the hardware store). Called bright zinc sometimes, but it isn't really due to the risk of hydrogen embrittlement.
True zinc plated bolts are done hot dipped (as are structural steel beams etc).

Your local plater can do a cadmium plate when they do their next run, see if you can opt out of the gold iridite finish if you can ('gold passivated').
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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by LightningRods » Jan 23 2013 11:53pm

There's hot dip galvanization and electrogalvanization. Here's a home tin-zinc electroplating kit for $70:

http://www.eastwood.com/ew-electroplati ... -zinc.html

An excerpt from Wikipedia:

The majority of hardware parts are zinc plated, rather than cadmium plated."

I have no idea which process the stock GNG brackets use. See what's available from your local plater and what each service costs. Either would work.
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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by Chalo » Jan 24 2013 12:56am

heathyoung wrote:Nope. Its most likely cadmium plating (like bolts etc from the hardware store). Called bright zinc sometimes, but it isn't really due to the risk of hydrogen embrittlement.
True zinc plated bolts are done hot dipped (as are structural steel beams etc).

Your local plater can do a cadmium plate when they do their next run, see if you can opt out of the gold iridite finish if you can ('gold passivated').
The stuff that looks like cadmium (metallic straw yellow) in the United States is almost entirely zinc chromate converted zinc plating. As far as I know, true cadmium plating is limited mostly to milspec and aviation certified fasteners. Pretty much all the rest has switched over to zinc, nickel, and zinc chromate because of worker safety and environmental protection regulatory burdens upon the use of cadmium.

These are cadmium plated:
Image

And these are zinc plated:
Image

You can see how the yellow zinc plating is a little bit shinier and more iridescent than the yellow cad plating.

Cadmium is very nasty stuff. The illness caused by overexposure to cadmium is named after the cries of pain by Japanese victims of cadmium poisoning.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Itai-itai_disease

Image
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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by LightningRods » Jan 24 2013 12:01pm

Very informative post, Chalo. Thanks for that.

I just received a PM from Cyclebutt asking what my adjustable sheets are made from. I posted that info some time ago but will post again to keep the info somewhat current.

The sheets are made from high quality American cold rolled 12 gauge sheet steel. The spacers are hot rolled electrically welded 3/8" diameter, .049" wall steel tube.

I contacted one of the largest manufacturers of cog belt pulley systems in the US this morning and sent them all of the GNG specs. I'm hoping to get a quality solution to the rubbish that the kit ships with. If possible I want to source both the standard 14/80T set and at least one lower ratio in the range of 14/100. I'll share information as I get it.
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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by LightningRods » Jan 24 2013 4:48pm

Look at what our own Spinning Magnets has been up to in his spare time. The sly dog has gone and written a review of the GNG mid drive for electricbike.com!

http://www.electricbike.com/gng/
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Ariane   10 kW

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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by Ariane » Jan 25 2013 10:44am

Hi,

I Like to know if its easy to machine the drive pulleys to get a 10 mm shaft, thank you!

Black Arrow

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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by Denisesewa » Jan 25 2013 1:46pm

BlackArrow wrote:Hi,

I Like to know if its easy to machine the drive pulleys to get a 10 mm shaft, thank you!

Black Arrow
You can see how I did it here > http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 28&t=46891 << it wasnt difficult just have to take your time.

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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by Ariane » Jan 25 2013 1:53pm

Hi Denise,

I have seeing it but i just forgot sorry, thank for the help, good day!

Black Arrow

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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by spinningmagnets » Jan 25 2013 7:18pm

From December 2009, by ES member Deecanio in the UK. Drive is from recumpence, primary pulleys are 60T/19T (3.15:1) #219 chain secondary is 52T/11T (4.72:1) total reduction is 14.86:1. ENO freewheel is inside the large pulley to allow the smallest possible 11T cog on the secondary reduction.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 60#p168622
Image

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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by LightningRods » Jan 26 2013 10:53am

Matt also makes this gorgeous two stage drive (three stage if you count the chain to bottom bracket). Having a tiny drive sprocket for more reduction is better than a tiny drive pully. At least the chain will stay engaged and not skip. The best solution is an additional reduction stage so you're not running either tiny drive pulleys or huge driven pulleys to get the reduction you want. This matters even more with a 10,000 rpm RC motor.

Matt's double primary belt drive is the way to go if you have the room to install it. His pricing is very reasonable for what you get. Notice the 20mm wide belt with no idler tensioners. Good enough for eleven horsepower or more which an insane amount of power on a bicycle.

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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by spinningmagnets » Jan 26 2013 11:21am

The majority of Matts customers have been for recumbents, so the drive was located behind the seat. It was brilliant the way he designed the shaft joint, so the drive could be re-configured into several shapes (an "L", a "V", an "I", etc). I'm a big fan of Matts work.

My difficulty in finding a 20mm wide pulley with a 10mm bore, that has a reasonably low tooth-count, leads me to believe that's why GNG chose to source a custom motor shaft with the 14T built-in (non-removable).

If you are willing to risk paying up front for 100 pieces, there are plenty of shops in China that will gladly make any part you want (regardless of potential copyright issues), and they will make those parts to any level of quality you specify, from dirt cheap to high grade.

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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by rp3 » Jan 27 2013 7:03pm

I got my kit running yesterday. Wow what fun! As a first timer I had no idea what to expect, but so far it's been great. I can see the belt is not going to last long at all, it's already fraying at the edges. Hopefully my LightningRods kit will help that when it comes.
Not really any flat roads close to me but on a slight decline she does just over 50kph. But it really shines going up hills towing the kiddie trailer, so much easier.
ATM I'm running a 12S (2x6S) pack from my Trex 700 (rc heli), it's only a 4500mAh pack but has got me started.

Call me hooked, I think I will always have a powered bike from now on. :)

...

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Last edited by rp3 on Jan 27 2013 9:03pm, edited 1 time in total.
......................
- BEONE HORNET PLUS - Bafang BBS02 750W -16kgs-(unpowered) - 12s 5.8Ah LiPO- 23kgs
- "Flight" DS bike - Bafang 500w rear (code11) soldered controller for 1.85kW. EM3ev triangle bag holding 14s 9Ah LiPO. CA v3. -28kgs-
- Giant Rincon 2002. Bafang 500w rear (code13) soldered controller for 1.35kW. 12s 4.5Ah LiPO. -23kgs-

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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by Denisesewa » Jan 27 2013 7:49pm

He ,he, , another convert ! :)
Nice looking rig there, bet the kids love it.

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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by melodious » Jan 27 2013 7:53pm

:roll: your kids will need safety glasses from the stray pebble popped up from your rear tire... :( Just looking out for you :!:
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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by LightningRods » Jan 28 2013 12:11am

rp3 wrote: I can see the belt is not going to last long at all, it's already fraying at the edges. Hopefully my LightningRods kit will help that when it comes.
RP3- The adjustable sheets will help. Another major problem is that small drive pulley on the motor with razor sharp edges on it. It is constantly shaving away at the teeth of the belt. If you can take a Dremel tool or even some emery cloth and work on those sharp edges on the pulley teeth that will help stop the belt from fraying. These rubber drive belts can work great, they just have to be set up properly. A properly designed belt drive needs less maintenance than a chain drive.

I'm trying to put together an affordable pulley solution. SpinningMagnets is also scouring the internet for a replacement pulley. I've created a 3D model of a pulley with proper teeth on it. If I can't find an existing pulley I'll have this made.

Image
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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by bee » Jan 29 2013 6:20pm

Got my new plates from LightningRods yesterday, thanks!

Also got my hobby king package so I can start designing a mount for the batteries, and my GNG kit was shipped out over the weekend, so hopefully I'll be playing with this stuff soon!
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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by spinningmagnets » Jan 29 2013 8:52pm

I may have found a viable motor pulley for UK customers. HTD 5mm-pitch, 25mm wide, pilot-bored so buyer must have it drilled to final bore diameter. 12T, 14T, 16T...roughly $15 (GBP 10) plus tax and shipping.

Be aware this part does not appear to have a keyway, or a roll-pin through-hole, or a threaded grub-screw hole (I have seen grub-screw holes in the valley of one of the teeth in the middle of the pulley, if you wish to trim off the shank-stub).

Ebay listing from seller cnc-parts4u

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HTD-5mm-Pitch-T ... 791a00f4da

Image

ES member patrick.reavis showed how he used an aluminum shaft-clamp as a bearing mount for his boxed chain-reduction. It might be possible to use one of these bonded to the side of a motor-pulley to attach the pulley to a shaft...as an option.
ShaftClamp.jpg
ShaftClamp.jpg (19.86 KiB) Viewed 2821 times

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