GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

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christerljung   100 W

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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by christerljung » Dec 02 2012 12:59pm

bzhwindtalker wrote: Christer, The noise is quite bad at the moment but I can only improve from that!
Is it that a bigger chain makes more noise? My #25 chain is almost as quiet as the belt.
bzhwindtalker wrote: I had to cut the aluminium pulley apart to free it from the adaper.
Was it threaded or pressfit?

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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by LightningRods » Dec 02 2012 1:11pm

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Last edited by LightningRods on Dec 09 2012 10:27pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by bzhwindtalker » Dec 02 2012 1:13pm

Actually the issue is probably 90% related to the chain warp and tensioner setup. A straigth setup would probably be almost as quiet as the stock belt setup too. But it's rideable, it just attracts attention more than I like.

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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by LightningRods » Dec 02 2012 1:29pm

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Last edited by LightningRods on Dec 09 2012 10:26pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by heathyoung » Dec 02 2012 6:02pm

bzhwindtalker wrote:I had to cut the aluminium pulley apart to free it from the adaper.
christerljung wrote:Was it threaded or pressfit?
POKE - bzhwindtalker - same question from me :)
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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by bzhwindtalker » Dec 03 2012 12:26pm

It was threaded, it's the same thread as freewheel hubs. This makes fitting chain rings and stuf quite easy using a freewheel as a core.

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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by bzhwindtalker » Dec 03 2012 12:37pm

Denisesewa wrote: For the final drive how many rear cogs do you use and what sizes are they ? I want to make a 3 speed cassette and would like a starting idea of what cogs to use.
I curently have a 11-32t cassete where I removed the 32t and use a 3speed shifter. I use the 28t, the 18 and the 14t. the gear I use the most is the 18t. but remember I run 14s lipo and 24" wheels so my numbers will probably not help a lot :oops:
Look at what I found counting my teeth :
IMG_2416.JPG
IMG_2416.JPG (97.12 KiB) Viewed 2915 times

Anything missing ? :roll:

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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by Denisesewa » Dec 03 2012 12:51pm

bzhwindtalker wrote:
Denisesewa wrote: For the final drive how many rear cogs do you use and what sizes are they ? I want to make a 3 speed cassette and would like a starting idea of what cogs to use.
I curently have a 11-32t cassete where I removed the 32t and use a 3speed shifter. I use the 28t, the 18 and the 14t. the gear I use the most is the 18t. but remember I run 14s lipo and 24" wheels so my numbers will probably not help a lot :oops:
Look at what I found counting my teeth :
IMG_2416.JPG

Anything missing ? :roll:
I tried using a 3 speed shifter with a 9 speed derailiur and 9 speed cassette yesterday and found it shifted 2 gears at one click of the shifter perfectly, so I am thinking of using a 7 or 8 speed cassette and building a 3 speed cassette with the proper cog spacing so I can use a heavier chain , the cogs are a bit thicker than 9 speed cogs and may help avoid what happened to yours, might have to run intermediete 9 speed cogs as spacers to keep the chain from dropping between gears, I wonder is single speed cogs would shift properly without having the ramps cut into them?
I am also running a 24" rear wheel and 14 s lipo's so this info is helpfull. although your first reduction chain drive is a different ratio now it will still get me close.
Thanks !
"D"

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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by Denisesewa » Dec 03 2012 1:30pm

Since my motor hasnt been run yet so there hasnt been any torque applied I managed to unscrew the belt pully from the hub adapter, this is what it looks like and a single speed cog screws on.

Image

The thread pitch might be just a hair off since I tried several freewheels and cogs some would go right on and some where too tight to screw on by hand, probably just manufacturing differances.

I think this freewheel sprocket assembly would screw right on

Image
and I know I've seen other sprockets in #25 chain that also screw on without the freewheel portion, so if the freewheel is now on the primary side this would leave possiblities open to eliminate the freewheel on the secondary thus allowing much smaller gears and vary the secondary ratio by just changing the drive gear.

Hmmm.

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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by bzhwindtalker » Dec 03 2012 2:03pm

Yep the 65t would be a perfect option for most paired with 12t on the motor. The 80t does not fit but can be used to make an adapter.

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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by christerljung » Dec 03 2012 4:00pm

The drawback, maybe, when moving the freewheel to left side is that pedaling will be heavier. (It´s been thoroughly discussed in the E.S bottom bracket drive thread.)
With extended and and hopefully adjustable sheets i want this on my jackshaft, 120 tooth: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: and maybe 24S 88v nominal :shock: >4kw :?:
Image

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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by rjoe » Dec 03 2012 4:09pm

bzhwindtalker wrote:
IMG_2416.JPG
Anything missing ? :roll:
I have two or three gears like that on my triathlon bike. Never had any problems

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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by crossbreak » Dec 03 2012 6:28pm

christerljung wrote:The drawback, maybe, when moving the freewheel to left side is that pedaling will be heavier. (It´s been thoroughly discussed in the E.S bottom bracket drive thread.)
With extended and and hopefully adjustable sheets i want this on my jackshaft, 120 tooth: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: and maybe 24S 88v nominal :shock: >4kw :?:
Image
Eddy currents will prevent this i guess. But we dont know how thick laminations of this motor are. Maybe someone disassembles and takes close pic of the laminations and takes a pic? Then we can easily calc how fast we can spin it.

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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by heathyoung » Dec 03 2012 7:44pm

Denisesewa wrote:Since my motor hasnt been run yet so there hasnt been any torque applied I managed to unscrew the belt pully from the hub adapter, this is what it looks like and a single speed cog screws on.

Image

The thread pitch might be just a hair off since I tried several freewheels and cogs some would go right on and some where too tight to screw on by hand, probably just manufacturing differances.

I think this freewheel sprocket assembly would screw right on

Image
and I know I've seen other sprockets in #25 chain that also screw on without the freewheel portion, so if the freewheel is now on the primary side this would leave possiblities open to eliminate the freewheel on the secondary thus allowing much smaller gears and vary the secondary ratio by just changing the drive gear.

Hmmm.
I though cog looked familiar...
http://www.electricscooterparts.com/beltcogs.html

Anyone reckon the 95 tooth would work? Would allow you to go larger for the smaller cog without messing up the reduction too far. I'm thinking another plate would need to be made though, maybe the person who was laser cutting the adjustable plates would be able to interject.
GNG offroad build on Craftworks DHR with 12S2P lipo. Light, balanced, powerful, able to climb a tree.
Project Vectrii (2) - status - Finished. Nope. 38S Leaf cells are next. Now have 2 of them - Averages 50Wh/Klm

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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by crossbreak » Dec 03 2012 8:10pm

This kind of chain guide is made for high chain speeds. It uses a ratchet retaining mechanism, balancing chain and tensioner wear. It is used in high efficiency engines so friction should be okay. You may also know this one from your motorcycle:
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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by LightningRods » Dec 03 2012 9:17pm

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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by crossbreak » Dec 03 2012 9:48pm

these tensioners are made from PTFE materials, it does not matter if there is oil or not. Only dirt does friction here. Of course, an oil circuit also takes dirt away since it is filtered. any one against oil bath here :D I have a bunch of seals for very little almost no $ right here, ranging from 10mm to 17mm. I'm sure a full encasement and some fat lubricant would do the job here, no need for oil bath
Let's try everything and see what's best
that almost makes sense, we all have about the same test equipment ;)

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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by LightningRods » Dec 03 2012 10:19pm

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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by teklektik » Dec 05 2012 6:24pm

Needmorespeed wrote:I've got a 9 fet running with the gng kit. ... Had to change the hall and phase wires to the first on the list. But this produced the pulses as eride had. Had to ask lyen for any ideas and he told me to change the phase to a lower setting. But this just made it slow. So I got him to send a configuration which would work with my setup, (48v20ah)which I did all be it a set up for a 12fet. That seemed to work for a quick test run up the road. Stopped the pulsing but now I'm getting it cutting out if I put any load on the throttle! It seems to drain the power rapidly so it cuts out. ... But it all worked fine on the stock controller. Only had the problem putting the lyen on with the ca.
I'm wondering if this isn't the same issue as with running MAC/BMC gear motors with these Infineon (actually XieChang) controllers. Both cell_man and Lyen have specially modded controllers to eliminate the ratty operation at low speed and to prevent cutouts. On the face of it the GNG motor/gear setup appears to have similar characteristics to the gearmotors - small motors with high rpm. If might be worth chatting this up with Lyen to get his view... a controller upgrade may do the trick.
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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by heathyoung » Dec 05 2012 7:09pm

Yep sounds like a processor speed issue - If I remember correctly, the timing used to have to be changed on the crystalyte controllers for some reason - I think the processors were running too slow and not coping with higher voltages (and higher RPM as a result).

Maybe belting up the speed of the infineons by swapping in a faster crystal may resolve these issues.

I need to stop fafffing around and finish my setup, the battery box is taking longer than I originally anticipated. Damn OCD.
GNG offroad build on Craftworks DHR with 12S2P lipo. Light, balanced, powerful, able to climb a tree.
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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by deepfraught » Dec 05 2012 11:49pm

What battery config and mounting location are you going for Heath? Mine will be 2 x 6s 8Ah, width of those Turnigy Nanotech allows a pair side by side on seat tube water bottle location with plenty of clearance on narrow road bike, so no issue for wider MTB with GNG crankarms. Encasing and mounting them is slowly ticking at the back of my mind, so any OCD ideas are welcome.
The backpack with umbilical and inherent safety disconnect when separated by bike sounded great, but I don't like wearing backpacks for any gear so won't be doing it for batteries.
History: Front hub SS 200W, China E-mtb 200W, 3x A2B Metros, Commuter Booster beta, 2.4kW d/s w/DD kit, MAC 1.5kW road/flatbar 1250Wh EM3EV frame batt, BBS02 750W d/s MTB 1250Wh frame batt. All sold (except A2B Metros pending TLC from storage).

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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by heathyoung » Dec 06 2012 12:44am

Supremely over the top in terms of safety features and monitoring, as per usual :)

The batteries are 12S2P Zippy 5AH, mounted in a ABS plastic box on the forks (Rockshox world cup boxxers) as per oatnet's build. The case is a jaycar job, with the fork clamps being made from HDPE, with an aluminium 19mm square RHS (for want of a better description) giving enough offset from the forks to allow the controller and a DC:DC converter to be mounted out-of-sight on the rear of the box.

Monitoring is done with two cell-log 8's, with my own customised drain mod board (ie a high voltage opamp buffer, complete with balancer capable of 80 mA - all suface mount). There is a charge control to ensure that the batteries are not too low, or too high when charging.

Batteries are covered with coroplast, mounted to HDPE subframe (removable) and surrounded with foam. Whole thing weighs 5Kg (with batteries), which was the aim of the game.

I'll have a look and see if I have any photos. Its been slow going, mainly due to redesign after redesign of the bms :P And having no time with work/kids etc etc.

The case I used is the Jaycar HB6224 - Sealed Polycarbonate Enclosures 171 x 121 x 80 - It fits 4 zippys in fine, no problems. They have a larger case that would fit 8 (!) but its freaking huge. I took it home and put it on the bike and - no way. Looks stupid, and bulky. I still need to be able to lift the front! The RHS is 19mm from bunnies wharehouse, and the end caps come from clarke rubber. The HDPE came as offcuts from a plastics supplier for about $5 or so, attacked with a holesaw (32mm) and a circular saw + router.

Its designed to light and bulletproof - I break things the way I ride. You know, arms and such :mrgreen:
Attachments
Clamp detail.JPG
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Clamp and offset.JPG
Clamp and offset.JPG (203.55 KiB) Viewed 748 times
Batterybox and controller.JPG
Batterybox and controller.JPG (175.32 KiB) Viewed 748 times
GNG offroad build on Craftworks DHR with 12S2P lipo. Light, balanced, powerful, able to climb a tree.
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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by LightningRods » Dec 06 2012 11:56am

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Last edited by LightningRods on Dec 09 2012 10:25pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by Denisesewa » Dec 09 2012 5:29pm

So, this is my world looking out the front door today >
Image

So I decided to start the proccess of turning down the motor shaft for chain drive ,at this point I have it down to 12 mm with zero runout and within .002 inch variance, when I get closer to 10mm I'll start being more careful and think I can get it within .001 " , I have spent about 1 hour so far. the sprocket is designed for a roll pin but I am not sure how to go about drilling through the shaft and hitting the hole on the other side so I may just drill dimples in the shaft and thread the sprocket holes for set screws, Open to other ideas ?
Kinda hard to hold the camera and file at the same time but you get the idea. click on the image for the vid.

Image

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Re: GNG, 1000W 48V BB-drive, $400

Post by christerljung » Dec 09 2012 5:52pm

We got the same weather here in Sweden. :mrgreen:
I did the a similar process with my GNG. Take it really slow when getting closer to 10mm, it goes away much faster in the end. Mine was suddenly 9.8 :oops:
The sprocket i bought was with set screws, mounted with no problem and has been sitting tight so far. Like this:
Image

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