AFT mid drive build

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
cheekybloke   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 301
Joined: Mar 01 2013 11:54am
Location: sheffield u.k

AFT mid drive build

Post by cheekybloke » Mar 01 2013 12:18pm

hi folks,
i have been reading e.s. for a while and have purchased the AFT mid drive kit from AUS.
i went for the 1680w 48v kit with the emax upgrades.also got 8 6s 5000mah turnigy 20c batterys and the hk quattro charger .as advised i got the cycle analyst aswell.
i intend to put the kit on a trek remedy 8 that will remain 8 speed for chain thickness.
as soon as it arrives i will do some build pics.any advice on wiring or anything else will really help me.
cheekybloke

User avatar
spinningmagnets   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 10651
Joined: Dec 21 2007 10:27pm
Location: Ft Riley, NE Kansas

Re: AFT mid drive build

Post by spinningmagnets » Mar 01 2013 3:24pm

Welcome to ES. I believe the AFT uses a Cyclone kit motor and planetary-geared primary reduction (sourced from Headway?), but the rest of the kit is reported to be better than the standard Cyclone kit. Here is some of the discussion about AFT kits, these threads will show which builders here already have an AFT. I will be looking forward to hearing your evaluation of it's strengths and weaknesses...

"AFT Mid Drive System"
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 28&t=44572

"AFT mid drive conversion kits ACS crossfire"
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 28&t=29848

"AFT new bottom bracket mid drive kit release"
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 31&t=34852

"New Headline/cyclone motor mount bracket"
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 31&t=36765
Last edited by spinningmagnets on Jul 19 2013 9:33am, edited 1 time in total.

cheekybloke   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 301
Joined: Mar 01 2013 11:54am
Location: sheffield u.k

Re: AFT mid drive build

Post by cheekybloke » Mar 01 2013 6:18pm

thanks for the welcome mr magnets,i have spent many hours reading your posts on the gng drive.i live in the uk in sheffield which has some legendary hills.i will be very interested to see how it deals with them.the bike will be used for commuting only but the roads here require a full sus bike.
do i need an on off switch?
is there a right way to wire batteries up ?i have 8 packs should i stack packs of 2 together to make right volts and then stack them,or 2 sets of 4 packs and then stack?
would it make any difference?
can you tell its my first e bike and i am not an electrician?

User avatar
spinningmagnets   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 10651
Joined: Dec 21 2007 10:27pm
Location: Ft Riley, NE Kansas

Re: AFT mid drive build

Post by spinningmagnets » Mar 01 2013 6:55pm

This info is "dogman" approved...

"LiPo noob thread links"
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... 14&t=19956

It sounds like you want a 12S (6S X 2) system (44V)...with 4P (4 X 5000 mAh) = 20-Ah?

cheekybloke   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 301
Joined: Mar 01 2013 11:54am
Location: sheffield u.k

Re: AFT mid drive build

Post by cheekybloke » Mar 01 2013 7:12pm

yes 44v at 20 ah,just wondered which way.i will check out the links.
thanks for a speedy reply

User avatar
spinningmagnets   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 10651
Joined: Dec 21 2007 10:27pm
Location: Ft Riley, NE Kansas

Re: AFT mid drive build

Post by spinningmagnets » Mar 01 2013 8:48pm

There are several strategies I have seen. First, I highly recommend that you charge to the "LiIo (Lithium Ion)" setting of 4.10V per cell, and set a Low-Voltage-Cutoff (LVC) at 3.65V per cell. For 12S, that would be 49.2V when full, and 43.8V when the battery cuts off.

You could get a small amount of extra range if you charge to a higher voltage and let the battery run down lower, but...it stresses the battery in exchange for a very small amount of range.

Next, you can do a quick bulk-charge of the entire pack to 49.2V each day, which is simple and easy, but...once in a while it benefits the health of the pack if you do a (slow) balance charge. If you ride every day, you might balance charge on the weekend to keep an eye on things, or even every other weekend.

Since a lot of affordable chargers are made for 6S, some of the 12S bikes build their pack as two 6S strings (two groups of 4P/20-Ah in your case), and they balance charge with one power supply that takes 120VAC and converts it to DC, and it powers two 6S chargers.

There would be a pigtail to series-connect the two 6S strings, which makes them 12S, and then plugs them into the controller or bulk charger. For balance charging you would unplug the two 6S sockets (always put the female socket on the battery side, and the male plug on the controller/charger side.

Here are some connectors I like. If you order them from hobby king, also order heat shrink insulation, and silicone-insulation wire (its cheap). The XT60 uses 4mm bullet connectors, and the XT90 uses 5mm

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... NUINE.html
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... airs_.html
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... _Tube.html
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... Guard.html

There are better chargers and DC-power supplies than what I use, but here is the cheapest you should buy (Hyperion and iCharger are well-regarded).
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... 65#p341300

Here's an awesome power supply
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 31&t=45361

It looks like the Hyperion EOS1420i would only need one power supply + ONE charger for 12S for the bulk charging + balance charging (I don't know, never tried this)
http://www.hyperion-eu.com/public/manua ... _guide.pdf
http://www.progressiverc.com/icharger-306b.html

cheekybloke   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 301
Joined: Mar 01 2013 11:54am
Location: sheffield u.k

Re: AFT mid drive build

Post by cheekybloke » Mar 02 2013 9:31am

i have the hk quattro charger and a 600w 17v power supply,i was wanting to get another quattro to charge and balance all 8 packs at the same time.would the power supply be big enough?
could you recommend a bulk charger?

User avatar
spinningmagnets   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 10651
Joined: Dec 21 2007 10:27pm
Location: Ft Riley, NE Kansas

Re: AFT mid drive build

Post by spinningmagnets » Mar 02 2013 11:52pm

The only LiPo I have used was 6S/22V so I never needed a bulk charger, but for 12S/44V there are threads that discuss taking two Meanwell 24V power supplies and putting them in series for 48V and then adjusting the voltage to your target. If using the 4.10V per cell that I recommend as the top, you would adjust the bulk charger to stop at 49.2V

cheekybloke   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 301
Joined: Mar 01 2013 11:54am
Location: sheffield u.k

Re: AFT mid drive build

Post by cheekybloke » Mar 09 2013 11:09am

just to confirm you say to charge my lipo pack with the lithium ion setting on the charger?

cheekybloke   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 301
Joined: Mar 01 2013 11:54am
Location: sheffield u.k

Re: AFT mid drive build

Post by cheekybloke » Mar 11 2013 8:59am

i have just finished the build and taken it for a test ride.
crikey its a bit torquey,got a 34t chainring on the front and managed to go up a reasonably steep hill at 32 mph.will be going on the dual carriage way later for a top speed check.i am expecting over 50 mph.
pics later

User avatar
spinningmagnets   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 10651
Joined: Dec 21 2007 10:27pm
Location: Ft Riley, NE Kansas

Re: AFT mid drive build

Post by spinningmagnets » Mar 11 2013 12:54pm

just to confirm you say to charge my lipo pack with the lithium ion setting on the charger?
Sorry for the delay. Yes. some chargers will charge the pack to 4.15V or 4.20V per cell on the LiPo setting (sometimes too high due to miscalibration on the rapid assembly line), LiIo (Lithium ion) will normally charge to 4.10V per cell.

cheekybloke   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 301
Joined: Mar 01 2013 11:54am
Location: sheffield u.k

Re: AFT mid drive build

Post by cheekybloke » Mar 12 2013 9:48am

thanks,that will save me standing in a very cold shed and manually stopping the charger.
tried putting battery pack in my rucksack all it does is power wheelie all the time.i have a friend making an aluminium box to fit my front triangle to house them and try and keep the front wheel down.
did a 12 mile ride in sheffield uk(its got some legendary hills) and used 5 amps out of my 20amp pack.max amp drawn was 67 after a long hill and going way too fast up it.motor was slightly warm but its minus 1 outside
as i make and sell reflective safety stickers i have a 200 watt sticker on the kit now just incase of the police taking notice.have you people seen reflective black vinyl stickers?
i know it sounds weird but it really works.
it looks black unless you shine a light on it,then it looks white.i will post a pic of my bike helmet as it is covered in it.

Gab   100 W

100 W
Posts: 280
Joined: Aug 05 2012 7:18am

Re: AFT mid drive build

Post by Gab » Apr 13 2013 7:39am

Hi Do you have any updates?

Any pics or videos ?

cheekybloke   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 301
Joined: Mar 01 2013 11:54am
Location: sheffield u.k

Re: AFT mid drive build

Post by cheekybloke » Apr 18 2013 11:55am

Gab wrote:Hi Do you have any updates?

Any pics or videos ?
all good at the mo,put 250 miles on with no hassle.
hopefully doing some vids soon as snow has gone and now batt. pack is frame mounted so i feel a bit safer

cheekybloke   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 301
Joined: Mar 01 2013 11:54am
Location: sheffield u.k

Re: AFT mid drive build

Post by cheekybloke » Jun 11 2013 8:23am

Gab wrote:Hi Do you have any updates?

Any pics or videos ?
Attachments
bike1.jpg
custom batt.box 48v 20ah
bike1.jpg (110.84 KiB) Viewed 1270 times

cheekybloke   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 301
Joined: Mar 01 2013 11:54am
Location: sheffield u.k

Re: AFT mid drive build

Post by cheekybloke » Jun 11 2013 8:30am

hi folks ,i have been busy for a while and have just got my new upgrades.
primary drive cover
new cooling fins
gearbox noise reduction cover
motor tensioner
the batt.box contains 6 6s 5000mah packs and the booster pack of 2 more is sticky backed velcrod to the top as the aluminium cover for them is not finished.

cheekybloke   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 301
Joined: Mar 01 2013 11:54am
Location: sheffield u.k

Re: AFT mid drive build

Post by cheekybloke » Jun 11 2013 8:44am

trek remedy 8
rock shock reba dual air forks
xt 8 spd cassette
chris king hubs
hope 4 pot brakes
titec carbon handle bars
custom 6000 lumen front light
12 watt rear light
adapted gear shifter (will post pics)
dmr moto tyres
xt deraileur
28.5 kg 63 pounds total weight
i weigh 170 pounds
48v 20ah of turnigy 20c 6s 5000mah
custom shifter made with Polymorph its great stuff.
it is a bag of plastic granules that you place in hot water and then mould to whatever shape you want that sets really hard and is reuseable
the switch on the brake lever is for the lights,i have one on each lever.one controls 2 xml leds,the other controls 4 more it is great to have courtesy lights at my finger tips to flash people out of junctions,out of my way etc
Attachments
bike2.jpg
bike2.jpg (100.83 KiB) Viewed 1270 times
Last edited by cheekybloke on Jun 11 2013 9:02am, edited 2 times in total.

cheekybloke   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 301
Joined: Mar 01 2013 11:54am
Location: sheffield u.k

Re: AFT mid drive build

Post by cheekybloke » Jun 11 2013 8:47am

new upgrades
cooling fins
gearbox cover
Attachments
bike3.jpg
bike3.jpg (110.97 KiB) Viewed 10177 times

cheekybloke   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 301
Joined: Mar 01 2013 11:54am
Location: sheffield u.k

Re: AFT mid drive build

Post by cheekybloke » Jun 11 2013 8:59am

batt.box covered in diamond grade reflective vinyl,same stuff that is on police cars in uk.
safety first
Attachments
bike4.jpg
bike4.jpg (93.36 KiB) Viewed 1270 times

Gab   100 W

100 W
Posts: 280
Joined: Aug 05 2012 7:18am

Re: AFT mid drive build

Post by Gab » Jun 11 2013 6:31pm

Hi

Awesome build you have their. What speeds can you do on it ?

cheekybloke   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 301
Joined: Mar 01 2013 11:54am
Location: sheffield u.k

Re: AFT mid drive build

Post by cheekybloke » Jun 12 2013 6:21am

Gab wrote:Hi

Awesome build you have their. What speeds can you do on it ?
on the flat with some serious pedalling have had 40 mph+
down a very steep hill have done over 60 on tarmac.
throttle only on flat ground its happy at 25mph

Megsy73   1 W

1 W
Posts: 52
Joined: Mar 25 2013 4:10pm

Re: AFT mid drive build

Post by Megsy73 » Jun 13 2013 8:54pm

Wow nice setup, i've also been looking at one of these AFT kits, just need to save up some cash...:)

Hey should this thread be in NON HUB motor section?

cheekybloke   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 301
Joined: Mar 01 2013 11:54am
Location: sheffield u.k

Re: AFT mid drive build

Post by cheekybloke » Jun 16 2013 9:13am

Megsy73 wrote:Wow nice setup, i've also been looking at one of these AFT kits, just need to save up some cash...:)

Hey should this thread be in NON HUB motor section?
i would recomend aft and jim is a gentleman,more than willing to help in anyway he can.
not sure how to move this thread to non hub section any help would be cool

User avatar
Miles   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 11020
Joined: Mar 16 2007 4:15pm
Location: London UK

Re: AFT mid drive build

Post by Miles » Jun 17 2013 10:42am

cheekybloke wrote:not sure how to move this thread to non hub section any help would be cool
Done.

jk1   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 336
Joined: Feb 27 2009 6:04am

Re: AFT mid drive build

Post by jk1 » Jul 19 2013 7:37am

Wow that's a really nice build, probably one of the best builds I have seen with a cyclone type motor. I like how u have a frame battery better then the EGO kit in the back pack types.

How many km's have you done now on the kit and how is it holding up? I had heard the cyclone motors had problems with the gearbox teeth with grease ?

What distance and speeds can you do on the kit with your battery ? what efficiency do u get per km , wh/km ?

Do you have any video footage ?

Post Reply