AFT mid drive build

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
drew12345   10 kW

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Re: AFT mid drive build

Post by drew12345 » May 11 2014 9:19pm

That's the one. The connector from shunt hooks directly to CA. Did you open the cable?

delphinus   1 mW

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Re: AFT mid drive build

Post by delphinus » May 11 2014 9:48pm

drew12345 wrote:That's the one. The connector from shunt hooks directly to CA. Did you open the cable?
Yes I opened the heatshrink and connected green wire to the green on the controller but nothing else. I'm thinking I might need to configure the controller to accept a different throttle type or maybe change the output of the CA. Em3EV website says its a hall type throttle and I think the controller has been configured 3 wire pot.

district9prawn   1 kW

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Re: AFT mid drive build

Post by district9prawn » May 12 2014 4:21am

delphinus wrote:I tried tieing the green cable from the shunt to the green pin on the empty 3 pin plug (Throttle 0-5V signal IN) and plugged the 2pin plug into old throttle so I could use the on/off switch. When turning it on I got an error on the controller:
Throttle error at power-up.
Throttle signal is higher than the preset dead zone at Power On. Fault clears when throttle is released.
Somehow I managed to get it to clear and the motor ran at a low RPM with 0 throttle. Opening the throttle sped it up till I got to about half throttle then it stopped. Closed throttle and it ran at low RPM by itself again.

Any thoughts? Is it something to do with hall vs resistive throttle?
If you got this far, and have the motor spinning up faster as you open up the throttle then perhaps tweaking throttle input and output in the cycle analyst is all that remains. If this is the case, the you need to map the throttle input so that turning the throttle from zero to maximum gives you 0-100% on the CA. For the output, you need it mapped so that the CA throttle out voltages correspond with what the controller expects. I'm not sure what throttle your controller should work with but as long as the controller expects a 0-5v signal the CA should work with it.
Neu 8057 6kW left hand drive hardtail with 18 fet Vesc: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=96754

drew12345   10 kW

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Re: AFT mid drive build

Post by drew12345 » May 12 2014 9:28am

I just hooked the throttle that came with kit directly to controller. Then the connector from shunt to CA. I didn't have to open any cables. It was plug n play.

delphinus   1 mW

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Re: AFT mid drive build

Post by delphinus » May 17 2014 6:13pm

district9prawn wrote:If you got this far, and have the motor spinning up faster as you open up the throttle then perhaps tweaking throttle input and output in the cycle analyst is all that remains.
This did the trick in the end. Jim from AFTech did some testing for me and gave me the following figures which are now working great.
On the Output CA voltage settings you need set those to mimic the stock throttle, which is :
Min= 0.73v
Max= 4.18v

Set to pass through mode also.
Green wire from the shunt into the throttle IN on the controller (also green).

I also seem to have the chain alignment pretty much sorted as well. Put the nut on the side of the bolt furtherest from the chain based on Jim's recommendation, which pulls the top over a bit more. No more dropped chains!
I can power up my hill (1.5km, 30% gradient) in first gear and able to maintain a steady 25km/h.

Excellent after-sales service from AF Tech. Would highly recommend.

drew12345   10 kW

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Re: AFT mid drive build

Post by drew12345 » May 18 2014 8:30am

Glad you got it all figured out! Can u post pic of what you did to help others?

00Tj   100 W

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Re: AFT mid drive build

Post by 00Tj » Dec 03 2014 11:26am

Over the last week I have been dropping chain's like nobody's business and this thread has just helped me ALOT! I honestly did not even think about the fact that it could be the motor torque knocking it out of alignment!? Thanks guys!
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delphinus   1 mW

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Re: AFT mid drive build

Post by delphinus » Dec 03 2014 2:36pm

00Tj wrote:Over the last week I have been dropping chain's like nobody's business and this thread has just helped me ALOT! I honestly did not even think about the fact that it could be the motor torque knocking it out of alignment!? Thanks guys!
What did you do in the end to fix the chain dropping? It's funny looking down and watching the motor shift to the right as you throttle up.

00Tj   100 W

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Re: AFT mid drive build

Post by 00Tj » Dec 04 2014 10:03pm

Nothing as yet. But i'm having a new bracket built. Along with a AFT style heat sync.. Hell of a lot cheaper than buying direct from AFT! I dont know how they can charge almost $200 for a piece of metal that cost's under $20 + $30 build labour.
Stealth Bomber B52 SB#536

jk1   1 kW

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Re: AFT mid drive build

Post by jk1 » Dec 05 2014 12:26am

Which version do you have ? i think the later Versions have dual front clamps to stop this slippage .

i have also heard of people on here with thin downtubes haveing less grip and more slip on the clamps, and this is fixed by smearing a wipe of silicon under the clamp to get more grip.

cheekybloke   1 kW

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Re: AFT mid drive build

Post by cheekybloke » Jun 13 2016 12:05pm

Long time no post here,
Update bike has now done 8500 miles replaced planetary gears a few times.
Other than that the motor kit is still fine, just gone to 18s and 40a and its a whole new ball game now.
It does get warm quicker but i am careful not to wot for long periods.
it now does 28.5 mph in first gear with a 48t up front and a 28t at rear.
Darren
I will also be beta testing the new AFT kit with the same motor as this with a kelly foc at 20s and 70a with the fan cooling for the motor internals.
Watch this space for more details .

Megsy73   1 W

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Re: AFT mid drive build

Post by Megsy73 » Jun 14 2016 1:10am

Long time no post here,
Update bike has now done 8500 miles replaced planetary gears a few times.
Other than that the motor kit is still fine, just gone to 18s and 40a and its a whole new ball game now.
It does get warm quicker but i am careful not to wot for long periods.
it now does 28.5 mph in first gear with a 48t up front and a 28t at rear.
Darren
I will also be beta testing the new AFT kit with the same motor as this with a kelly foc at 20s and 70a with the fan cooling for the motor internals.
Watch this space for more details .
Wow 8500 miles that must be one of the longest life mid drive kits I have seen on the sphere at that power level ? this is the small 1680w motor not the 3000w cyclone ? what peak power did you run ?

So you changed 2 sets of planetary gears ?

I wonder how many rubber belts you would have replace on the LR kit? Lol on here some people only go 700 miles per belt it seems and others as short as only 200 miles!!!

viewtopic.php?p=1168039&display_history=true#p1168039



So if this is the 1680w cyclone motor? This Guy chupa dynoed the C3000w vs the 1680w and went back to the 1680w as it was a lot more efficient it seems maybe 10 to 20%?



viewtopic.php?f=28&t=69867&start=850

cheekybloke   1 kW

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Re: AFT mid drive build

Post by cheekybloke » Jun 14 2016 5:47am

Hi Megsy,
Yes it is the tiny 1680 watt cyclone motor
, it has been run at 50v and 50a till last week.
Now it is at 75v and 40a.
I think i am on my 3rd set of planetary gears although it may be the 4th .
Either way at a tenner a set i dont really care.
Cant wait try the new AFT mods for it to see what happens at 20s and 70a.
Darren

Megsy73   1 W

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Re: AFT mid drive build

Post by Megsy73 » Jun 14 2016 8:50pm

Cant wait try the new AFT mods for it to see what happens at 20s and 70a.
Wow! 20s and 70a? that's 80v 70amps is 5-6kw power??? I have never seen anyone run the cyclone 1680w motor at that voltage and power?

That would be awesome to see if it works?, that's more peak power than an Astro 3210 and it would be interesting to see what the continuous power rating is with air cooling ?

It would probably be a lot closer to this peak power than say a sealed 3220 astro with no air cooling? The 3220 Astro is only rated to 3550w continuous


Actually I have been reading that that 1680w cyclone motor is more efficient at higher voltage and lower current here?

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=65757&hilit=cyclone&start=325

by crossbreak » Sun Nov 29, 2015 7:39 pm
yep, sure there is an influence of the voltage on efficiency. there are some rows on the right of the datasheet. i made a version for you to play around a bit. It has a gear reduction row and an additional current row (this is phase current, not abttery current). 48V/100A should be less efficient than 72V and 66.7A, since it is closer to the sweet spot.

cheekybloke   1 kW

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Re: AFT mid drive build

Post by cheekybloke » Jun 15 2016 6:40am

Thanks for the link mate, i have noticed for the same journey i am using less capacity now but seeing higher usage numbers on C.A. and going quite a bit faster.
!st gear is 48t up front and 28t at rear and it does 28.4 mph as opposed to 19 mph at 12s .

Nathan   10 W

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Re: AFT mid drive build

Post by Nathan » Jun 19 2016 5:53am

wow 20s 80v ? 5-6kw peak?

That's going to be an awesome build i haven't seen it run at that voltage, but as Crossbreak mentioned it will be more efficient at that voltage.

In that motor comparisons thread actually they were saying the efficiency is so close to an 3220 ASTRO if you add higher drivetrain losses of the higher KV RPM of the Astro it would be quite similar probably because the cyclone is an awesome IPM motor design like the 2016 zero motor.

And that sheet compares a stock 1680w cyclone motor only, but you will be running the AFT upgraded cyclone motor ? with ceramic bearings and oil in the gearbox ? also a kelly FOC controller you mentioned ?

It would then be heaps more efficient again than any other ASTRO motor kits like the Tangent kit that doesn't have any of these mods and inefficient Trapezoidal ESC.

Eager to see the results....



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