New Bafang Crank-Drives

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
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tomjasz   10 GW

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Re: New Bafang Crank-Drives

Post by tomjasz » Sep 16 2015 9:30am

Spanglo wrote:
Managed to pull off that location with a beach cruiser, but it was very tight fit.
Until now I had missed the build thread. WOW on the cruiser BBS02 fit! I always figured there would be a frame that would allow the motor to mount this way. Talk about nice and stealth. Sweet!
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: New Bafang Crank-Drives

Post by Spanglo » Sep 16 2015 1:02pm

CmdrBond wrote:Excellent.

I shall try that when I eventually drop the cash for one.
tomjasz wrote:
Spanglo wrote:
Managed to pull off that location with a beach cruiser, but it was very tight fit.
Until now I had missed the build thread. WOW on the cruiser BBS02 fit! I always figured there would be a frame that would allow the motor to mount this way. Talk about nice and stealth. Sweet!
When I say it was a tight fit I'm not kidding. I had to grind a couple of small notches in the frame before the motor would go in place. Only needed a couple mm of wiggle room.

Initially the Coaster frame looked like it could easily accommodate the BBS02, and I was surprised that it wasn't quite open enough. So choose the frame wisely.

CmdrBond   10 mW

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Re: New Bafang Crank-Drives

Post by CmdrBond » Sep 16 2015 5:29pm

Frame is already chosen, it's my 2009 Cannondale Hooligan 1
IMG_234970202510998.jpeg
It looks like it "might" fit in the rear triangle.

But if it didn't I'll just have to go for a standard position.

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Re: New Bafang Crank-Drives

Post by emco5 » Sep 17 2015 2:11am

Are there any Bafang 350 owners following this looong thread?
I’ve not been able to get a ride on a BaFang-equipped bike so am having trouble guesstimating the power output I’d get from their 350 watt system. 75% of my commute needs no assist, so I’m hoping to take the minimalist approach to e-power and keep the motor/battery weight as low as possible. Speed is not a priority, I just want help cresting the local Alps without needing a shower. With pedal input, of course, would the Bafang 350 with 36v 11-amp battery have enough muscle to turn a 32t granny on a 26” MTB and move my 170# up 1/4 mile of 26% grade?

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Re: New Bafang Crank-Drives

Post by tomjasz » Sep 17 2015 6:38am

CmdrBond wrote:
But if it didn't I'll just have to go for a standard position.
definitely will not fit in the triangle. The Electra and my pure have very different frame shapes and curves.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: New Bafang Crank-Drives

Post by tomjasz » Sep 17 2015 6:43am

emco5 wrote:Are there any Bafang 350 owners following this looong thread?
I’ve not been able to get a ride on a BaFang-equipped bike so am having trouble guesstimating the power output I’d get from their 350 watt system. 75% of my commute needs no assist, so I’m hoping to take the minimalist approach to e-power and keep the motor/battery weight as low as possible. Speed is not a priority, I just want help cresting the local Alps without needing a shower. With pedal input, of course, would the Bafang 350 with 36v 11-amp battery have enough muscle to turn a 32t granny on a 26” MTB and move my 170# up 1/4 mile of 26% grade?

I have over 2000 miles on 2 350W and am extremely happy. 20mph all day no problem. I'm a user of max pas and get nearly 20 miles out of a 11Ah 36v battery. Wife uses very low PAS and gets twice that mileage. They've been very reliable and can be found at a discount too. The 250W is decent and on sale several places. But it is anemic by American and ES standards.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: New Bafang Crank-Drives

Post by emco5 » Sep 17 2015 2:49pm

tomjasz wrote:
emco5 wrote:...would the Bafang 350 with 36v 11-amp battery have enough muscle to turn a 32t granny on a 26” MTB and move my 170# up 1/4 mile of 26% grade?
I have over 2000 miles on 2 350W and am extremely happy. 20mph all day no problem. I'm a user of max pas and get nearly 20 miles out of a 11Ah 36v battery. Wife uses very low PAS and gets twice that mileage. They've been very reliable and can be found at a discount too. The 250W is decent and on sale several places. But it is anemic by American and ES standards.
Tomjasz, does the 350 labor on steep climbs? I'm concerned about over-motivating the electrons on a daily basis and burning something. I could change the granny to 34t, the derailleur will handle it. Maybe the 500 watt would be a wiser move, but I'd really prefer to stay with the lighter 36v system.

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Re: New Bafang Crank-Drives

Post by CmdrBond » Sep 17 2015 4:21pm

tomjasz wrote:
CmdrBond wrote:
But if it didn't I'll just have to go for a standard position.
definitely will not fit in the triangle. The Electra and my pure have very different frame shapes and curves.
But it is not an Electra or a Pure.

There is a very good chance it won't fit, I admit that. For most bikes that would be because there is insufficient space between the wheel and the bottom bracket. But because I have 20" wheels in a "full size" (ish) frame, I have the clearance. It's whether the 73* angle between seat tube and chainstay is sufficient to give clearance. That probably isn't. But I wont's find that out until I get one.

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Re: New Bafang Crank-Drives

Post by Ade » Sep 17 2015 11:37pm

emco5 wrote: Tomjasz, does the 350 labor on steep climbs? I'm concerned about over-motivating the electrons on a daily basis and burning something. I could change the granny to 34t, the derailleur will handle it. Maybe the 500 watt would be a wiser move, but I'd really prefer to stay with the lighter 36v system.
Looking at the specs, the weight difference between the 36v 350w and the 48v 500w motors is like 300 grams or a few iPhones. Not even worth considering.
Nakamura bigbob 4.0 Fatbike with (Luna) 120mm BBSHD and 14ah shark pack with QA cells.

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Re: New Bafang Crank-Drives

Post by emco5 » Sep 18 2015 2:05am

Ade wrote:....Looking at the specs, the weight difference between the 36v 350w and the 48v 500w motors is like 300 grams or a few iPhones. Not even worth considering.
Motor housings are similar with the 500 being a bit wider. The weight difference is with the 36v and 48v batteries, more cells in the 48.

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Re: New Bafang Crank-Drives

Post by Ade » Sep 18 2015 2:25am

emco5 wrote:
Ade wrote:....Looking at the specs, the weight difference between the 36v 350w and the 48v 500w motors is like 300 grams or a few iPhones. Not even worth considering.
Motor housings are similar with the 500 being a bit wider. The weight difference is with the 36v and 48v batteries, more cells in the 48.
Get a battery with less capacity.
Nakamura bigbob 4.0 Fatbike with (Luna) 120mm BBSHD and 14ah shark pack with QA cells.

CmdrBond   10 mW

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Re: New Bafang Crank-Drives

Post by CmdrBond » Sep 18 2015 3:01am

Ade wrote:
emco5 wrote:
Ade wrote:....Looking at the specs, the weight difference between the 36v 350w and the 48v 500w motors is like 300 grams or a few iPhones. Not even worth considering.
Motor housings are similar with the 500 being a bit wider. The weight difference is with the 36v and 48v batteries, more cells in the 48.
Get a battery with less capacity.
Not always an option though.
emco5 wrote:Are there any Bafang 350 owners following this looong thread?
I’ve not been able to get a ride on a BaFang-equipped bike so am having trouble guesstimating the power output I’d get from their 350 watt system. 75% of my commute needs no assist, so I’m hoping to take the minimalist approach to e-power and keep the motor/battery weight as low as possible. Speed is not a priority, I just want help cresting the local Alps without needing a shower. With pedal input, of course, would the Bafang 350 with 36v 11-amp battery have enough muscle to turn a 32t granny on a 26” MTB and move my 170# up 1/4 mile of 26% grade?
You mention a commute, this may help work out what sort of capacity is required for a regular route.

http://www.electricbikerange.info/Elect ... range.html

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Re: New Bafang Crank-Drives

Post by opperpanter » Sep 18 2015 5:56am

Ade wrote:
emco5 wrote:
Ade wrote:....Looking at the specs, the weight difference between the 36v 350w and the 48v 500w motors is like 300 grams or a few iPhones. Not even worth considering.
Motor housings are similar with the 500 being a bit wider. The weight difference is with the 36v and 48v batteries, more cells in the 48.
Get a battery with less capacity.
Is the 36v500w no longer available?

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Re: New Bafang Crank-Drives

Post by CmdrBond » Sep 18 2015 6:14am

opperpanter wrote: Is the 36v500w no longer available?
Em3ev still list it.

http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?route= ... uct_id=189

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Re: New Bafang Crank-Drives

Post by Spanglo » Sep 18 2015 2:38pm

CmdrBond wrote:
tomjasz wrote:
CmdrBond wrote:
But if it didn't I'll just have to go for a standard position.
definitely will not fit in the triangle. The Electra and my pure have very different frame shapes and curves.
But it is not an Electra or a Pure.

There is a very good chance it won't fit, I admit that. For most bikes that would be because there is insufficient space between the wheel and the bottom bracket. But because I have 20" wheels in a "full size" (ish) frame, I have the clearance. It's whether the 73* angle between seat tube and chainstay is sufficient to give clearance. That probably isn't. But I wont's find that out until I get one.
Unfortunately plan on it not fitting that location. The motor is deceptively large, and it needs a lot of space around the BB area.

Look how open the frame design is for the electra, and I still had to grind the down tube and seatpost tube in order for it to fit. It's wedged in that frame without a micron to spare.

Image

Image

It's a great a motor in any location. Makes for a fun ride.

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Re: New Bafang Crank-Drives

Post by tomjasz » Sep 19 2015 7:52am

emco5 wrote:
Tomjasz, does the 350 labor on steep climbs? I'm concerned about over-motivating the electrons on a daily basis and burning something. I could change the granny to 34t, the derailleur will handle it. Maybe the 500 watt would be a wiser move, but I'd really prefer to stay with the lighter 36v system.
Check out this thread and ask the users of the 250W and 350W there. Finding the appropriate experience will get your answer. I have no hills to ride up here, just flat streets.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 5#p1099755
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: New Bafang Crank-Drives

Post by tomjasz » Sep 19 2015 8:12am

CmdrBond wrote:
tomjasz wrote:
CmdrBond wrote:
But if it didn't I'll just have to go for a standard position.
definitely will not fit in the triangle. The Electra and my pure have very different frame shapes and curves.
But it is not an Electra or a Pure.

There is a very good chance it won't fit, I admit that. For most bikes that would be because there is insufficient space between the wheel and the bottom bracket. But because I have 20" wheels in a "full size" (ish) frame, I have the clearance. It's whether the 73* angle between seat tube and chainstay is sufficient to give clearance. That probably isn't. But I wont's find that out until I get one.
It won't fit. Period.
I'd have a wheel built with MAC or Q100 or such, to fit that bike. But that's just me.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: New Bafang Crank-Drives

Post by finnen » Oct 19 2015 7:14am

Hello

I'm new to ebikes, and new to the forums, but I hope that you might be able to help me.

I'm planning to buy a trike cargo bike, specifically a Babboe Big: http://www.babboe.co.uk/cargo-bikes/babboe-big.html

They have the option to deliver with an electric motor, but I feel like 250W (the legal limit here in EU) won't be enough driving a fully loaded trike with two kids and two dogs. I don't want to ride very wast, 25-30km/h is plenty, but I want to be able to maintain some speed in hills, as well as accelerating a little better.

I like the idea of the mid drive, to be able to use the gearing. The Babboe comes with nexus 7, which I do believe is a pretty decent planet gear hub.

I'm leaning towards getting the 750W version. Even if I'm not going to use the full power, it will ease my mind to know I lessen the risk of overpowering the motor/driver.

Are there any caveats I should consider? Or am I on the wrong track, and should I get a hub motor instead?

One final note, where is the best place to buy the motor kit/batteries? I'm looking at elifebike right now.

Thanks in advance!

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Re: New Bafang Crank-Drives

Post by jkbrigman » Oct 19 2015 8:30am

finnen wrote:Hello

I'm new to ebikes, and new to the forums, but I hope that you might be able to help me. I'm planning to buy a trike cargo bike, specifically a Babboe Big: http://www.babboe.co.uk/cargo-bikes/babboe-big.html

They have the option to deliver with an electric motor, but I feel like 250W (the legal limit here in EU) won't be enough driving a fully loaded trike with two kids and two dogs. I don't want to ride very wast, 25-30km/h is plenty, but I want to be able to maintain some speed in hills, as well as accelerating a little better.

I like the idea of the mid drive, to be able to use the gearing. The Babboe comes with nexus 7, which I do believe is a pretty decent planet gear hub. I'm leaning towards getting the 750W version. Even if I'm not going to use the full power, it will ease my mind to know I lessen the risk of overpowering the motor/driver.

Are there any caveats I should consider? Or am I on the wrong track, and should I get a hub motor instead? One final note, where is the best place to buy the motor kit/batteries? I'm looking at elifebike right now.

Thanks in advance!
Hello finnen!
With a Nexus 7 speed rear hub, a mid-drive might be your only option for that bike. You would have to discard the internally geared hub and switch to a derailleur system to go with a hub motor on the rear.

We on E-S usually buy a Bafang BBS02 from EM3EV.com. Paul is well known here. One thing to know about the BBS02: There have been folks using it who indicate it has an odd problem when shifting, that you have to cut power and wait a split second before you shift. There are various threads here on E-S that talk about this and there is information and a diagram for a switch you can add that helps this issue.

Paul also has batteries...
eRecumbent. 9C 2810, 6-FET,CA,18S3P LiPo, Kenda Kwest. 33mph max 12.8Wh/mi (22mph avg) Phat Bike Commuter HS3540, 6-FET, 18S3P LiPo, Schwalbe Marathon 47mph max 25 Wh/mi (28mph avg) Basic LiPo Charging Thread , Add Throttle to Multispeed Bike
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tomjasz: "Romans go full dork. They could give a hoot what 'Merkins do."

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Re: New Bafang Crank-Drives

Post by Rassy » Oct 19 2015 9:21am

jkbrigman wrote:
One thing to know about the BBS02: There have been folks using it who indicate it has an odd problem when shifting, that you have to cut power and wait a split second before you shift. There are various threads here on E-S that talk about this and there is information and a diagram for a switch you can add that helps this issue.
I saw somewhere on the forum where a slight nudge backwards on the pedals when you stop pedaling to shift will also shut off the BBS02 motor, i.e. cancel the PAS overrun. I tried this and it works great. No need to wait to shift or install special switches, etc.
-Rassy-
One Tadpole Trike equipped with a Bafang BBS02
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=69419
One Delta Trike equipped with a Bafang BBS02
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 0#p1291260

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Re: New Bafang Crank-Drives

Post by finnen » Oct 19 2015 9:21am

Thanks!

I'm aware of the shifting issue. I'll try it as is, and if it's too much of a nuisance, I'll solder together a button to shut off the drive while changing gears. I'm both a an avid MTB'er and RC enthusiast, so I have no fear for either bike repair, soldering or lithium batteries/electric motors.

One thing I haven't been able to find is if the included brake levers are for canti- or V-brakes. Or maybe they are adjustable?

Yes, I'm aware of that I would have to ditch the Nexus if I were to get a hub motor. In that case I would see if I could buy the bike without a rear wheel, or at least a more inexpensive one. Are there any benefits to a hub motor compared to the mid drive?

Any suggestions for battery size? I'm usually not expecting to go further than 5km, and then back, but once in a while I might go 10km and back (20 km round trip). I don't want to risk running out, but not running out of battery either.

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Re: New Bafang Crank-Drives

Post by Comfortzone » Oct 20 2015 4:24am

wooshbikes also have a cheaper crankdrive kit. I was told that the 7 speed hub gear is not THAT strong to handle loads of torque... ? but I have tried to confirm. You will never get max torque from hub motors that crank drives get through any gear system.

I want torque for long hills and trails. My £135 250w front hub is good in my beach cruiser with a 3 speed hub+pedaling, but the battery will drain quicker than a crankdrive+gears+pedalling.

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Re: New Bafang Crank-Drives

Post by finnen » Oct 20 2015 8:56am

I found another cargobike (two wheel bakfiet style) mid drive conversion here on ES. He used a 500W version, and thought that was overkill, so I'm leaning towards getting a 500W 48V version, that should also ease the strain on the Nexus hub.

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Re: New Bafang Crank-Drives

Post by lazy_mosquito » Dec 14 2015 3:46pm

@ finnen
If you don't mind programming your own bafang, i would take the 750W motor and tune it down to 15 or 18 A.
In this way you have roughly the same performance as the 500W with the possibility to tune your engine up to 25A in case needed.

I drive myself a bullit bakfiets with a 750W tuned down to 18A and a 1200W battery from EM3EV and it rides like a dream. I do easily 90 km with max pas at 35km/h (i limited it to 35 km/h)
I have hydraulic brakes from tektra with an electric switch built in. so whenever i want to gear up (Nuvinci 360) i push my brake a little bit (just enough to cut off the engine but without actually braking) and gear up.
Driving with an empty battery in the hills is a no go. So take your battery big enough, in the winter your mileage is a lot less then in the summer. (can be 1/3th less)

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Re: New Bafang Crank-Drives

Post by finnen » Dec 14 2015 4:24pm

Thanks for the input, but I already have 80km on my bafang :)

I ordered the 750w motor programmed to 18A from em3ev, and a 12 Ah battery. I've gone 40km with lots to spare on the battery, and I have ordered some cheap lipos, 6Ah, to have as a spare in case I need to go further.

Tapping the brake works for changing gears, but I found it easiest to backpedal a couple of degrees, that stops the motor immediately.

I bought the universal hall effect brake sensors, it was easy to fit to the custom brake lever that pulls both front brakes at the same time.

Regarding winter, I have moved to Spain from Sweden a couple of months ago, so my battery life isn't really suffering here :D

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