New Bafang Crank-Drives

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
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Animalector   10 kW

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Re: New Bafang Crank-Drives

Post by Animalector » Feb 20 2016 6:11am

It's a logic level switch that gets pulled to ground I think. It certainly won't have guts enough to power a relay. You'll probably need to drive a FET then a relay....

Gooduck

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Re: New Bafang Crank-Drives

Post by tomjasz » Feb 20 2016 4:52pm

sapo wrote:Does anyone know what voltage is across the switch in the brake lever. I assume it is DC. I need to tap into it to drive a relay to control brake lights.

Mucking around with a relay, I may have blown the power supply in the controller that supplies that voltage by shorting it. Silly me!

So I guess I have to replace the controller?

Any empathic advice appreciated... :-)
I know the rating for the add on HWBS (Hidden Brake Sensor) is 5V
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Alan B   100 GW

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Re: New Bafang Crank-Drives

Post by Alan B » Feb 20 2016 6:13pm

I would not expect a low level supply for the ebrake input to have enough power to drive a relay.

Take care to not blow it out.

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Re: New Bafang Crank-Drives

Post by finnen » Apr 28 2016 4:04pm

I have been using my bbs02 for about six months now, and started getting some strange cut outs, the motor just wouldn't run intermittently. No error messages, nothing wrong with the brake sensors.

I bought mine from http://em3ev.com/ so I shot them an email describing my problem. They gave me a couple of things to check, but were willing to send me a new controller right away. Fast forward a couple of days, and I have the new controller arriving, installed and the bike works great again!

Can't thank em3ev enough, they sorted my problems quickly with better customer survice than many local shops. So go to them if you are considering this kit =)

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Re: New Bafang Crank-Drives

Post by 1KW » Apr 28 2016 7:52pm

Any daily high mileage users of the bbs motors on here? Curious how they hold up over long term, 5k+ miles

Timelord   1 W

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Re: New Bafang Crank-Drives

Post by Timelord » May 15 2016 12:39am

The BBS02 is looking very attractive, except for the cadence-based PAS. What are the odds that they'll come out with a BBS04 with torque-based PAS anytime in the next couple of years? I'd hate to buy a BBS02 and have a superior system released right afterwards. I know the Max has torque sensing, but that has such an underpowered motor.

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Re: New Bafang Crank-Drives

Post by sather » May 15 2016 8:15am

Not all torque sensors are created equal. Easy Motions torque sensors (I own one) are notorious for coming on when not pedaling when riding on rough ground. Court at Electric Bike Review mentions this in his reviews. Also, the torque sensor can turn the motor off completely when you inadvertently put slight pressure on the pedal when at a stop light. Then you have to completely re boot the system. My dealer has been unable to take care of either problem.

Although the Bafang pedal assist is not torque sensing, it works just fine. BTW: If you intend to ride hills or flog your bike, you should buy a Bafang BBSHD not the BBS02.

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Re: New Bafang Crank-Drives

Post by Timelord » May 15 2016 7:52pm

The reviews I've seen say the Bafang cadence PAS reduces assist inversely with increased cadence. As someone who prefers to spin, this probably wouldn't work for me. A long time ago, I owned one of the earliest torque PAS electric bikes, the Charger. I liked that one, except for the heavy lead acid battery pack. I'll be riding on-road with only the occasional hill, nothing worse than 10% grade, so a BBSHD would be overkill for me.

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Re: New Bafang Crank-Drives

Post by induna » May 15 2016 8:30pm

Timelord wrote:The reviews I've seen say the Bafang cadence PAS reduces assist inversely with increased cadence.
Read through the programming thread and you'll find that it is not so simple as that. The cadence at which the assist decreases, or whether it decreases at all, is configurable.

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Re: New Bafang Crank-Drives

Post by flyingbeekeeper » May 28 2016 5:03pm

I'm beginning to get a faint squeaking sound from the drive under load. I'm at 750 miles on it, and I barely remember reading somewhere in the last 170 pages of this thread about using high quality grease to do occasional maintenance on the drive. Is there a thread I'm missing on best practices Bafang maintenance? If not, why don't we start one?

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Re: New Bafang Crank-Drives

Post by tommie » May 28 2016 5:33pm


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Re: New Bafang Crank-Drives

Post by flyingbeekeeper » May 29 2016 1:53am

Thanks tommie! I still think we should start a thread of 'best practices maintenance' for the Bafang and put this in there.
tommie wrote:just to save you time.....

https://electricbike-blog.com/2015/12/2 ... not-heard/

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Re: New Bafang Crank-Drives

Post by Lurkin » May 30 2016 6:14am

flyingbeekeeper wrote:I'm beginning to get a faint squeaking sound from the drive under load. I'm at 750 miles on it, and I barely remember reading somewhere in the last 170 pages of this thread about using high quality grease to do occasional maintenance on the drive. Is there a thread I'm missing on best practices Bafang maintenance? If not, why don't we start one?
Or you could read the wiki.... middrives/bafang section.

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flyingbeekeeper   10 W

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Re: New Bafang Crank-Drives

Post by flyingbeekeeper » May 30 2016 3:25pm

Or we could start a 'best practices for Bafang' thread that search could find!
Lurkin wrote:
flyingbeekeeper wrote:I'm beginning to get a faint squeaking sound from the drive under load. I'm at 750 miles on it, and I barely remember reading somewhere in the last 170 pages of this thread about using high quality grease to do occasional maintenance on the drive. Is there a thread I'm missing on best practices Bafang maintenance? If not, why don't we start one?
Or you could read the wiki.... middrives/bafang section.

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Re: New Bafang Crank-Drives

Post by stepan » Aug 17 2016 10:04am

Hi everyone!
Is there any way to change the battery indication bars on C965 display for 14S li-ion battery?
It is not very convenient when it shows full all time and then suddenly drops to 0...

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phild   100 mW

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Re: New Bafang Crank-Drives

Post by phild » Aug 18 2016 6:56pm

Don't believe so ... but the new colour display will display voltage if you choose custom battery (or the analogue bars for those with 48v) - so at least you know where it is at. Getting below 3.2v x 14s ~ 45v is BAD!
Phil

Ride: Merida crossway 100 / BBSHD / Thudbuster

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Re: New Bafang Crank-Drives

Post by Tats » Aug 18 2016 7:59pm

+1 for the colour display, displays the amps sent to the motor too - not a cycle analyst, but a big improvement on the standard display

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tomjasz   10 GW

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Re: New Bafang Crank-Drives

Post by tomjasz » Aug 18 2016 9:46pm

Meh. Another not so accurate, maybe not so waterproof, but in color. Yawn. I'll take the C965. I have them all. Actually I wish the 963 had been upgraded.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: New Bafang Crank-Drives

Post by Statesman » Aug 23 2016 4:47am

Hello there. Just a quick 2 questions if I may

I have the Bafang BBS02 750 motor on my bike, that has a "gear sensor" fitted. I want to look after my motor as best i can. Its coupled to a Shimano 9 speed rear gear set. At the moment my knee is playin up so I am using assist level 1 a lot till it get stronger. From what i have read about this motor it likes to "spin" fast, so My 2 questions:

What is the procedure from a gearing action POV, when you are approaching an intersection and you know you have to stop, you are in say 9th gear and you have just been using the throttle only. Do you have to click down 9 gears before you stop? I understand its better for the motor to start in 1st, so to speak

Also, say Im doing 20mph on a flat road, no pedaling, how do you know which gear is better? 6th, 7th, 9th? I have been searching the net for "how to efficienly ride a mid drive bike", but havnt found anything, so thought Id ask here :-)

I do plan to use the pedals a LOT more in a few weeks

Thanks Chris

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tomjasz   10 GW

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Re: New Bafang Crank-Drives

Post by tomjasz » Aug 23 2016 10:04am

Statesman wrote:Hello there. Just a quick 2 questions if I may

I have the Bafang BBS02 750 motor on my bike, that has a "gear sensor" fitted. I want to look after my motor as best i can. Its coupled to a Shimano 9 speed rear gear set. At the moment my knee is playin up so I am using assist level 1 a lot till it get stronger. From what i have read about this motor it likes to "spin" fast, so My 2 questions:

What is the procedure from a gearing action POV, when you are approaching an intersection and you know you have to stop, you are in say 9th gear and you have just been using the throttle only. Do you have to click down 9 gears before you stop? I understand its better for the motor to start in 1st, so to speak

Also, say Im doing 20mph on a flat road, no pedaling, how do you know which gear is better? 6th, 7th, 9th? I have been searching the net for "how to efficienly ride a mid drive bike", but havnt found anything, so thought Id ask here :-)

I do plan to use the pedals a LOT more in a few weeks
Thanks Chris
Ride it as if there was no motor. What gear would you shift to if you were coming to a stop without the motor? With my 01 and 02 and 7 speed I typically take off on the flat in 2nd or 3rd gear. In 2nd or 3rd I can safely throttle across the intersection if I choose to. BTW I'm also a firm believer in preventive lubrication.

EM3ev, Cell_man does one of the best explanations of how the BBS series works.
http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?route= ... ation_id=7
In our experience, the PAS function of the BBS02 kits work well if they are used in a certain way. We suggest you forget about the PAS level as being an assist level. It is better to consider the setting as a way to adjust the pedalling cadence (speed at which you turn the pedals). Just because it is set to the max setting, does not mean it will pull more power, just because you set it to the minimum setting, does not mean it will necessarily pull less power from the battery (although it will of course tend to use more power and go faster in a higher PAS setting, than a low setting). MAINTAIN A HIGH MOTOR RPM GOING UP STEEP INCLINES. Do this using as low a gear as possible, combined with a high PAS level (or by using the throttle to increase the motor speed to a fast pedalling pace). It is less important to maintain a high pedalling cadence when the motor is not working so hard, but for steep inclines, always try to let the motor spin fast, and select a low gear. The motor will not spin fast in a low PAS level, unless you use the throttle to increase it.

The PAS system on the BBS range of motors, works like a switch. It does not increase assistance as you pedal faster, it simply makes the motor turn at a programmed rpm (percentage of the full speed actually) and current/power level (again, percentage of the max current setting), when it has detected that the pedals are turning (this can be confirmed by pedalling very slowly, as when you do this, the motor will drive at the same higher speed, ragrdless). The speed and max power provided for each PAS setting are programmed into the controller and cannot be changed by the end user (can be adjusted with and the appropriate USB cable and software). The power provided by the motor when used in PAS mode will increase, if it detects the load has increased (such as changing to a higher gear or approaching a hill), then reduce again as the load goes back to a constant level (this is a programmable parameter, knows as keep current). As previously stated, the motor speed does not significantly increase or decrease if you pedal faster or slower, and that is why we suggest the PAS level is used to control the pedalling cadence (motor speed) so that it matches your comfortable pedalling cadence. When using on steep inclines, it should be ensured that the motor is spinning as fast as possible. DO NOT USE A LOW PAS LEVEL AND PEDAL UP STEEP INCLINES USING PEDAL ASSIST, as this is a great way to kill the motor and controller. It is much better to use as low a gear as possible, and a high PAS level (or use the throttle to increase the motor rpm). Motors like to spin fast, when they are working hard!

If you are pedalling hard and can feel you are applying some effort, the motor will automatically do less of the work and the rider, will do more of the work, meaning you will travel further on a charge. It is quite simple, you control how much effort you want to apply, by either pedalling harder, or softer, so therefore letting the motor do more or less of the work. Use your bikes gears properly, as you would without motor assist. Select the PAS level so the motor turns at the speed you like to pedal, apply as much or as little effort as you want, use your bikes gear system to fix the speed at which you want to travel on the road. Do not control road speeds by just the assist level, or throttle, use the gears too. Don’t pick an overly high gear on the bike, then pick a low assist level and think you are using less power (you are not, you are probably using more power to cover the same distance and are putting strain onto the motor). You will be operating more efficiently, if you choose an appropriate gear, to allow the motor to spin at a moderate to fast speed (this is especially true on hills). Just because the motor is strong and can pull the highest gear, does not mean you are using the system in the best way by doing this. Making the motor work hard at low motor speeds (speed at which the motor turns or pedalling cadence) risks overheating the motor and blowing the controller, and ultimately, motor failure (DO NOT LET THE MOTOR SPIN SLOWLY ON STEEP HILLS, DROP A GEAR OR 3). The kit works better if the motor is spinning at a reasonably high speed, not labouring at a low rpm in a high gear. If the bikes gearing is too high to allow the motor to spin at a reasonable speed (reducing the number if teeth on the Chainwheel and increasing the number of teeth on the rear cluster, will decrease the gearing), then it is suggested you change to a smaller chain wheel, or change the freewheel/cassette, so that the lowest gears are low enough to allow the motor to spin at a moderately high rpm whilst travelling up hills. Riding up hills, when the motor is spinning slowly is a sure way to kill the motor. This is a middle motor, which can use the gears, so please use those gears so the motor can work effectively.

If you are travelling at high speeds, you will use more power than if you keep speeds lower (as speeds get significantly over 20mph/32kmh, the power requirements go up very significantly, largely due to aerodynamic drag). Use a combination of the bikes gear system and the PAS level, to pick a suitable road speed (a moderate speed, such as 25-32km/h is efficient, travelling much faster will reduce range significantly) and if you also apply some pedalling effort, then you will be making the most efficient use of the motor and human effort combined, and that will help you get the most range from your battery. Pedalling effort is significant at low speeds, but becomes almost insignificant at speeds of 50km/h (32mph) or higher, for example.

Alternatively, you can just use the throttle and let the motor do the work, but be aware that as speeds increase, the power required to cover a given distance also increases and as speeds get to 25mph (40km/h) plus, the power requirements increase massively. When using throttle only, to travel up steep hills, it is even more important than ever, to pick an appropriate gear, so the motor is turning at a reasonable speed, labouring up steep hills in a high gear is very likely to damage the controller or motor. The bottom line is this; the bike has gears to help the cyclist make the best use of the available power and that is the whole point of a middle motor. Just because you have a strong motor, does not mean you shouldn’t still use the gears to make the best and most efficient use of the available power.

Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: New Bafang Crank-Drives

Post by Statesman » Aug 23 2016 5:45pm

Many thanks tomjasz for the link. I will have a thorough read and digest :-)

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Re: New Bafang Crank-Drives

Post by LockH » Aug 24 2016 6:18am

Luna Cycle just added 2 new photos to the FacePlant forum... with description:
Bafangs top secret new drive is basically a bbshd built into a lighter package for production bike with a torque sensor..... basically 4x the power of the bosch drive in a more robust more affordable unit.
Image

Image

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Re: New Bafang Crank-Drives

Post by AF7JA » Aug 25 2016 1:28pm

My Ba-Fang arrived yesterday.

Before mounting it, should I open it up and apply:
*white lithium grease to the plastic gears, and
*moly grease to the main drive gear;

* or put Mobilgrease 28 on both, as suggested in this article https://electricbike-blog.com/2015/12/2 ... not-heard/

*or, just install it as it arrived?

My thoughts on this are split, there seems to be a strong consensus that some of the Ba-Fang units were not properly lubricated at the factory. Countering that is the many things are never quite the same after they have been taken apart and put back together.

Image
Image

[Yes, this was originally posted in another thread. I am not cross posting, I was told to take my post elsewhere. Apparently "problems/faults and fixes" is reactive, not proactive.]

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Re: New Bafang Crank-Drives

Post by tomjasz » Aug 26 2016 12:58am

Do pay attention, if you do, no big deal. I did a thread with some photos and there are others. Do it now when it's easiest.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: New Bafang Crank-Drives

Post by AF7JA » Aug 26 2016 7:03am

tomjasz wrote:Do pay attention, if you do, no big deal. I did a thread with some photos and there are others. Do it now when it's easiest.
But back to the question, are people using (auto store sourced) white lithium on the plastic and moly on the metal, or the red grease from the article on everything?

I am a bit concerned with the red grease, it looks like he felt a need to clean off all of the old grease before applying. Is the red grease a grease that does not mix well with others?

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