My first build, GNG Mid-Drive Kona Stinky Deluxe

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Wishes   1 kW

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My first build, GNG Mid-Drive Kona Stinky Deluxe

Post by Wishes » Jul 24 2013 1:11pm

Thanks to many ES members contribution on the GNG MId-Drive kit. I have finally got my first build together. I did not innovate anything. Everything I have done, and all the parts I have used, have all been procedures or part suggestions I obtain from the various gng mid-drive threads on the ES forums.

These are the upgraded parts I used:

12 x 3077 MOSFET Extreme Modder Controller LYEN Edition ( Lyen suggested this model for my 75 volt application)
Three speed switch
Large Screen Direct Plug-in Cycle Analyst with Speedometer Cable, Version 2.30
Magura Throttle, I bought it a while ago and cannot find the site where I got, here is a link to the item, but I managed to pick it up for 48$ including the shipping to Canada. http://www.electricmotorsport.com/store ... t-grip.php I also did the 1k and 3k resistor mod done to it. ( http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... ra#p179667 )

I wanted to use 18 cell lipo's for a total of 75 Volts when fully charged. I get 3000 Watts out of it at 40 amps. Lyen's controller combined with the CA and the new throttle have completely changed how the ride feels compared to my stock setup with the shunt mod to 40 amps and the stock throttle.

I upgraded the crank with 148mm DH ISIS BB 4844T chainwheel freewheel crank set as suggested in Bee's gng build. I wanted to use 4848 but I could not fit anything larger than the 44T on the second one because of my bike design. I ended up ordering one that was too large and had to use some spacers to compensate. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 28&t=50946

I have replaced the stock Gates primary belt with a Goodyear one, ( http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004EEPG9I/ref=biss_dp_t_asn while I await Lightningrods upgrade plates to apply my chain conversion. This belt actually lasts 3 times longer than the Gates stock belt.

Pictures to come.
Equality is about providing everyone with equal opportunities, it is not about guaranteeing equal results.

1st Build GNG Mid-Drive Kona http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 28&t=52029
2nd Build, Stong GT-S210 modified with 5kw hub motor http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =7&t=58056

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Re: My first build, GNG Mid-Drive Kona Stinky Deluxe

Post by Wishes » Jul 24 2013 1:35pm

After a few trial and errors to figure out how to properly link the pictures, here they are.

Image

Image

Image

Image
Equality is about providing everyone with equal opportunities, it is not about guaranteeing equal results.

1st Build GNG Mid-Drive Kona http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 28&t=52029
2nd Build, Stong GT-S210 modified with 5kw hub motor http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =7&t=58056

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Wishes   1 kW

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Re: My first build, GNG Mid-Drive Kona Stinky Deluxe

Post by Wishes » Jul 24 2013 1:43pm

Whats left to do:

I am waiting on Lightningrods upper and lower plates. The plan is to remove both tensioners and I will proceed to upgrading the primary drive belt to a chain. I am going to use the same Part's Bee used in his upgrade. Waiting on both the parts and the plates to ship in.

11t sprocket: http://tncscooters.com/index.php?route= ... uct_id=139
80t sprocket: http://tncscooters.com/index.php?route= ... uct_id=131
80t sprocket freewheel mount: http://tncscooters.com/index.php?route= ... uct_id=389
#25 chain: http://tncscooters.com/index.php?route= ... ath=38_103

The freewheel on the secondary drive broke after about 2 weeks of riding it. And that was before I modded the shunt on the original controller. I had it soldered back, but it makes a noise I don't like now. So I went ahead and ordered http://www.ebay.com/itm/321116066826?ss ... 1497.l2649 to enable me to use this http://bikemotive.myshopify.com/product ... -freewheel instead.



Wishes
Last edited by Wishes on Jul 24 2013 2:25pm, edited 2 times in total.
Equality is about providing everyone with equal opportunities, it is not about guaranteeing equal results.

1st Build GNG Mid-Drive Kona http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 28&t=52029
2nd Build, Stong GT-S210 modified with 5kw hub motor http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =7&t=58056

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Re: My first build, GNG Mid-Drive Kona Stinky Deluxe

Post by skyungjae » Jul 24 2013 2:01pm

beautiful build. :D
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Re: My first build, GNG Mid-Drive Kona Stinky Deluxe

Post by Wishes » Jul 24 2013 2:14pm

I forgot to mention for my electrical setup, I use 3 x 6 Cell Turnigy Lipo's in series. I manage to fit 9 of those in 3 bags. The pictures show only 2 bags on with a third holding a 3 cell battery for my lights. I use the Turnigy FatBoy Charger http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... arger.html along with the Turnigy http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... 0amp_.html
Equality is about providing everyone with equal opportunities, it is not about guaranteeing equal results.

1st Build GNG Mid-Drive Kona http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 28&t=52029
2nd Build, Stong GT-S210 modified with 5kw hub motor http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =7&t=58056

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Re: My first build, GNG Mid-Drive Kona Stinky Deluxe

Post by Wishes » Jul 24 2013 2:19pm

skyungjae wrote:beautiful build. :D

Thanks mate, got a lot of help, I'm not the most mechanically inclined person :D
Equality is about providing everyone with equal opportunities, it is not about guaranteeing equal results.

1st Build GNG Mid-Drive Kona http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 28&t=52029
2nd Build, Stong GT-S210 modified with 5kw hub motor http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =7&t=58056

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Re: My first build, GNG Mid-Drive Kona Stinky Deluxe

Post by t0me » Jul 24 2013 6:38pm

Well done. You've inspired me, I should do a thread like this for my build too.
Kona Stink-E - GNG based mid-drive - http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 16#p839416
Giant Anthem - LightningRods mid-drive http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 7#p1008007

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Re: My first build, GNG Mid-Drive Kona Stinky Deluxe

Post by Wishes » Sep 01 2013 9:43pm

I had my first Lipo fire tonight. Went riding in the dark without any lights. I was going along fine on a bike path at a relatively slow 20 kph. I had to transition from the bike path onto the street, the city is changing out all the piping for many of its streets in residential areas this summer, so seeing a street on gravel was not surprising. What did catch me by surprise, was that the street was 3 feet lower than the bike path.

My bike is a Kona full suspension. That I set up and ride on the street and bike paths only. I sometimes put the Lipo's in a bag that I fix inside the frame triangle. You can see the pics on my build thread http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 28&t=52029. Well that sudden drop actually compressed my back suspension enough to come squeeze my bag with 3 x 6 cell lipo's in it. It pierced one of the cells on one of the batteries.

As soon as I landed, i heard what sounded like air hissing, my initial thought was that I had caught a flat. I looked down to check my tires and I see smoke coming out of my bag of batteries. I quickly pulled the battery wire to the ESC, zipped open the bag and yanked out all 3 batteries and threw them on the ground.

I was lucky and fast enough, the battery had only started to smoke. The nylon bag did not get any damage, so I had time to get them out before heat build up. But as soon as the battery hit the ground it caught fire. It was in the middle of the street making an impressive show, so I kicked it to the side of the curb. Doing so loosened the various cells in the battery, and 4 of the 6 cells separated from the now burning 2 cells. That limited the fire somewhat, I have seen smaller Lipos catch fire in electric planes and helicopters. But those had 1 or 2 AH. It was impressive to see the amount of heat, smoke and fire generated by 2 cells of 5000 mah.

I made sure the fire was out, hopped on my bike and pedaled home. I slapped in some freshly charged batteries, grabbed an empty bag and went back to pick up the remains. Here are some pics.

Image

Image
Equality is about providing everyone with equal opportunities, it is not about guaranteeing equal results.

1st Build GNG Mid-Drive Kona http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 28&t=52029
2nd Build, Stong GT-S210 modified with 5kw hub motor http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =7&t=58056

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Re: My first build, GNG Mid-Drive Kona Stinky Deluxe

Post by RoadWrinkle » Sep 04 2013 12:12am

LIPO should be banned, the risk of catastrophic fire outweighs ANY benefit these batteries give you, IMHO. Peopl have lost their houses, pets, hands...what will it take to get these products off the market...multi-deaths?
First build: 1965 Schwinn Hornet with a playing card clothspinned to the rear spokes on the chain stay....

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Re: My first build, GNG Mid-Drive Kona Stinky Deluxe

Post by bee » Sep 04 2013 12:22am

looks good, nice to see more GNGs in Montreal :)

For the primary, go 12-13:80 or 11:65, 11:80 puts too much torque through the secondary side and will wear out the BMX chain quickly (ask me how I know).

I got some spare belts and other parts if you break something!
Chalo wrote:Hydraulic [suspension] is just vanity and moto-fetishism at anything in the range of attainable bicycle speeds.
2002 Devinci Magma - 117v GNG

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Re: My first build, GNG Mid-Drive Kona Stinky Deluxe

Post by Brentis » Sep 04 2013 12:28am

RoadWrinkle wrote:LIPO should be banned, the risk of catastrophic fire outweighs ANY benefit these batteries give you, IMHO. Peopl have lost their houses, pets, hands...what will it take to get these products off the market...multi-deaths?

How about gasoline?
Fireworks?
Hand guns?
Motor Vehicles?

Lipo is due the same respect of any dangerous good.
Doesn't mean we shouldn't have it.
Lesson learned, protect your batteries.
Play safe.

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Re: My first build, GNG Mid-Drive Kona Stinky Deluxe

Post by skyungjae » Sep 04 2013 10:22am

Do you regularly commute on this bike?
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Re: My first build, GNG Mid-Drive Kona Stinky Deluxe

Post by Wishes » Sep 04 2013 10:47am

skyungjae wrote:Do you regularly commute on this bike?
Yup I do. And never came close to squeezing my lipo's like that. I always knew it was a risk, I had the suspension set at its stiffest and had done some tests on the travel of my suspension. I only ride smooth bike paths and roads, so it had not been a problem until this... lol. I'll be making a stiff metal box that fits in the triangle over the winter, and I'll make sure it limits the travel of the rear suspension.

Like anything else out there we use that can be potentially dangerous. If you follow the guide lines, handle it using all the safety precautions you are suppose to, there are no issues. I've used Lipo's for almost as long as they have been out on the market for RC purposes, and I have not burned anything down or caused myself some bodily harm because of them.

This happened because of my personal negligence and not as a fault of the technology. I knew that every time i went out on my bike with Lipo's in a soft bag i was taking a risk. Being aware of this risk is what enabled me to get the battery out before it caused any damage to anything but itself. As for the horror stories of people burning down their houses, that is always because of the charging process. You never know when you will have 1 cell go out of whack during a charge. Every time you parallel charge LIPO batteries, you are taking a chance. That runaway cell during a parallel charging process is what causes 80% of the fires. And that is when they are usually left unattended, not located in fire secure area where it cannot spread,ect....

The RC community is more aware and usually better educated on LIPO technology. In the E-Bike community it is not as well understood, more recent of an application for the batteries I guess. And of course e-bike applications also tend to have lots more and larger AH batteries vs the RC applications, therefore charging in parallel becomes almost a must.

From my RC best practices, I always, always charge my batteries individually unless I'm in a rush and short on time. Better for their life span anyways, and always much safer.

Wishes
Equality is about providing everyone with equal opportunities, it is not about guaranteeing equal results.

1st Build GNG Mid-Drive Kona http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 28&t=52029
2nd Build, Stong GT-S210 modified with 5kw hub motor http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =7&t=58056

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Wishes   1 kW

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Re: My first build, GNG Mid-Drive Kona Stinky Deluxe

Post by Wishes » Sep 04 2013 10:58am

bee wrote:looks good, nice to see more GNGs in Montreal :)

For the primary, go 12-13:80 or 11:65, 11:80 puts too much torque through the secondary side and will wear out the BMX chain quickly (ask me how I know).

I got some spare belts and other parts if you break something!

I've finally got all my parts to proceed with the chain upgrade. I was going to use a 13:80, especially since I still have the standard bicycle chain, cassette and derailleur still on the back. Once I have the chain on. I think I'll order a new controller from Lyen and try it at 100 volts. Then I doubt the standard bike chain will hold up and I will probably upgrade to a single bmx gear like you did. At 75 volts, I need my first 3 gears for the tork and high speed. I'm guessing that won't be such an issue at 100 volts :)

Wishes
Equality is about providing everyone with equal opportunities, it is not about guaranteeing equal results.

1st Build GNG Mid-Drive Kona http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 28&t=52029
2nd Build, Stong GT-S210 modified with 5kw hub motor http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =7&t=58056

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Re: My first build, GNG Mid-Drive Kona Stinky Deluxe

Post by Wishes » Sep 15 2013 10:47am

I did the lazy thing and just bought the new 60 volt version. I'll upgrade to chain my old gng kit over the winter and install it on a second bike.

I did a straight swap out of my old kit for the new one.

On the first run, the first thing I notice is the noise level. I have not played with the primary reduction yet. I don't know if it is just the tensioner that is making so much noise, but its really loud.

The second thing I noticed, was a huge increase in my top end that I don't need, and a huge reduction in torque. The ratios have changed significantly.

I was running stock ratios on the original gng. I mean that I did not change the large pulley on the primary or the sprocket size on the secondary. I did change my chainrings, I am running a 44T to the back wheel and a 48T to the secondary reduction. Cadence was never important.

There is not much room between the 2 sprockets of the primary reduction. I don't see how i can really increase the size of the large sprocket on the primary. And reducing the small sprocket......I don't want to reduce the amount of surface engaged. I'm going to have to change my chainrings to compensate.

Wishes
Last edited by Wishes on Sep 15 2013 8:12pm, edited 1 time in total.
Equality is about providing everyone with equal opportunities, it is not about guaranteeing equal results.

1st Build GNG Mid-Drive Kona http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 28&t=52029
2nd Build, Stong GT-S210 modified with 5kw hub motor http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =7&t=58056

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Re: My first build, GNG Mid-Drive Kona Stinky Deluxe

Post by speedmd » Sep 15 2013 1:17pm

Hi Wishes

Let us know the stock tooth counts on the primary side and if you could also list them on the 60v gng thread. You most likely will need to go with a smaller motor sprocket. Possibly also a 50/48 or something like a 52/48 on the secondary side with the 48 feeding the rear wheel. Just a guess not knowing the primary ratio and motor rpm your getting loaded.

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Re: My first build, GNG Mid-Drive Kona Stinky Deluxe

Post by Wishes » Sep 15 2013 7:16pm

speedmd wrote:Hi Wishes

Let us know the stock tooth counts on the primary side and if you could also list them on the 60v gng thread. You most likely will need to go with a smaller motor sprocket. Possibly also a 50/48 or something like a 52/48 on the secondary side with the 48 feeding the rear wheel. Just a guess not knowing the primary ratio and motor rpm your getting loaded.

From what I can tell it looks like a 11 tooth on the motor and 55 or 54 teeth on the large sprocket? Wasn't the old pulley's 11-80? That would explain the huge difference in my ratios.

Image

And I couldn't find a 60v GNG thread. Or I would have posted it there too. Maybe we should start one if there isn't.

Wishes
Equality is about providing everyone with equal opportunities, it is not about guaranteeing equal results.

1st Build GNG Mid-Drive Kona http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 28&t=52029
2nd Build, Stong GT-S210 modified with 5kw hub motor http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =7&t=58056

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Re: My first build, GNG Mid-Drive Kona Stinky Deluxe

Post by Wishes » Sep 15 2013 7:23pm

Its hard to tell from the picture, i had a hard time getting a clear picture of it. But My inside chainring going to my back wheel, a 44 tooth, fits with about 3 mm to spare. I can't fit anything larger than a 44T.

Image
Equality is about providing everyone with equal opportunities, it is not about guaranteeing equal results.

1st Build GNG Mid-Drive Kona http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 28&t=52029
2nd Build, Stong GT-S210 modified with 5kw hub motor http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =7&t=58056

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Re: My first build, GNG Mid-Drive Kona Stinky Deluxe

Post by speedmd » Sep 16 2013 8:13am

Hi Wishes

Looks like they used the wrong chain and boxed them selves into a taller ratio. Typical engineering malfeasance. You can just pedal faster. :P

You need to swap out the sprockets for some #25 sprockets or mount the jack shaft further away. Most can fit a 11 or 12/72 (6 times reduction) with the 25 chain (same or more than stock). I made some eccentric bearing cups for the jack on mine and could go still larger than the 72. Lighteningrods has adjustable plates for the jack which will allow use of a larger sprocket if you want to stay with the longer pitch heavy chain, but you still most likely will need to swap it out for a 219 pitch setup or run a very large diameter gear.

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Re: My first build, GNG Mid-Drive Kona Stinky Deluxe

Post by Wishes » Sep 17 2013 1:07pm

I posted some details in the gng60v thread....I am going to do exactly as you metioned, change out these sprockets and chain for #25 that I happen to have already. I had bought the parts for my v1.0 kit. Combined with Lightningrods adjustable plates.

It should give me back the exact same ratio I had before.

gngV1.0 Stage 1 had 11-80 pulley
gngV1.1 Stage 1 has 11-54 sprockets

the shaft has a 10mm diameter and 8mm on both flats.

Image

You can see both the new and old large sprockets with their corresponding smaller sprocket. The small #25 sprocket in the pic was for my v1.0. I've found an exact fit for this shaft. http://www.electricscooterparts.com/spr ... chain.html and http://tncscooters.com/index.php?route= ... uct_id=131

Image
Equality is about providing everyone with equal opportunities, it is not about guaranteeing equal results.

1st Build GNG Mid-Drive Kona http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 28&t=52029
2nd Build, Stong GT-S210 modified with 5kw hub motor http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =7&t=58056

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Re: My first build, GNG Mid-Drive Kona Stinky Deluxe

Post by speedmd » Sep 17 2013 1:52pm

You may want to measure and make sure the 80 will fit and if not, get the LR front plates ordered and on the way. You can then get rid of the crappy idlers and have nice snug chains. :D :D :D :D

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Re: My first build, GNG Mid-Drive Kona Stinky Deluxe

Post by Wishes » Sep 17 2013 1:58pm

speedmd wrote:You may want to measure and make sure the 80 will fit and if not, get the LR front plates ordered and on the way. You can then get rid of the crappy idlers and have nice snug chains. :D :D :D :D

Already got them. I won't fit without the adjustable plates.
Equality is about providing everyone with equal opportunities, it is not about guaranteeing equal results.

1st Build GNG Mid-Drive Kona http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 28&t=52029
2nd Build, Stong GT-S210 modified with 5kw hub motor http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =7&t=58056

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Re: My first build, GNG Mid-Drive Kona Stinky Deluxe

Post by Wishes » Oct 14 2013 5:19pm

I got my parts and finally did the chain conversion to #25 chain as well as use Lightningrods plates.

NOTE: that the 11 tooth #25 sprocket is too small. The chain is not able to sit properly in the teeth the shaft gets in the way. The I had to grind down a 45 degree angle on the shaft itself so the chain could sit properly on the sprocket. A 13 or 14 tooth sprocket would probably not have had this issue.

It is much quieter than the stock chain the new kit came with. A huge difference on the noise level.

Image

Image
Equality is about providing everyone with equal opportunities, it is not about guaranteeing equal results.

1st Build GNG Mid-Drive Kona http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 28&t=52029
2nd Build, Stong GT-S210 modified with 5kw hub motor http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =7&t=58056

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Re: My first build, GNG Mid-Drive Kona Stinky Deluxe

Post by Wishes » Oct 17 2013 4:59pm

For someone who asked me in pm. Here is the anti spark connector I made myself using a 25watt resistor.

Image
Equality is about providing everyone with equal opportunities, it is not about guaranteeing equal results.

1st Build GNG Mid-Drive Kona http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 28&t=52029
2nd Build, Stong GT-S210 modified with 5kw hub motor http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =7&t=58056

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Re: My first build, GNG Mid-Drive Kona Stinky Deluxe

Post by Wishes » Mar 13 2014 6:22am

This bike just got converted to a Winter Snow Bike. I will be building a new bike for my summer riding.

Image
Equality is about providing everyone with equal opportunities, it is not about guaranteeing equal results.

1st Build GNG Mid-Drive Kona http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 28&t=52029
2nd Build, Stong GT-S210 modified with 5kw hub motor http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... =7&t=58056

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