Cyclone 3000W Mountain Bike

Joined
May 27, 2008
Messages
62
Hello,

I am in the last stages now of finishing a cyclone mid drive conversion. I have previously built an electric scooter and electric quad bike (6000w peak power) but I wanted something that was less conspicuous to ride around on.

I'm using a diamondback outback front suspension mountainbike frame with a 3000w cyclone kit. I was looking, originally, at building the drive using an RC motor. I have a HXT 170kv motor from a previous project, so I was going to couple this with a castle creations controller, BEC, etc. But the gearing down just seems to be nuisance. Worm drives, multiple sprocket reductions, expensive planetarys, belt reductions all seem to have drawbacks. I was looking at using a planetary from a torque wrench, but decided to just go for a cyclone set up and modify that where necessary.

I've already mounted the cyclone kit to the bike. I just need to mount the battery box into the frame triangle next. I'm using the 22.2V 5000mAh Lipos from my quad. To begin with, the system will be 12S,5Ah. If all looks good then this will go to 18S, 10Ah. If all that goes well then i'll go for some of the 9S packs from hobbyking, as they look pretty compact.

I have a question about the motor. Cyclone quote 90Nm for maximum torque? Does anybody with experience of these BLDC motors know how accurate this is? The reduction to the crank is 7:48 (approx 1:7). This puts peak torque at the crank at approx 620Nm. Max RPM will be about 850 at the crank. An Audi R8 V10 engine has a max torque of 540Nm.

Seems like a lot of torque for a relatively small motor.

BTW, the bike looks awesome. I'll put some pics up.
 
steelefist said:
I have a question about the motor. Cyclone quote 90Nm for maximum torque? Does anybody with experience of these BLDC motors know how accurate this is? The reduction to the crank is 7:48 (approx 1:7). This puts peak torque at the crank at approx 620Nm. Max RPM will be about 850 at the crank. An Audi R8 V10 engine has a max torque of 540Nm.
Are you sure it's not 90 kilogram-centimeters? :)
 
That would make more sense, in my head, but the spec says:

Capable to climb everywhere with the advantage of front and rear gears (12-18 gears)

Brushless electric motor kit 3000 Watt 72V

Motor ‘s Torque up to 90Nm, speed up to 6000rpm


:eek:
 
Is it the one halfway down this page?
http://www.cyclone-tw.com/dc24.htm

* Max speed 3223Rpm
* Rated speed 4111Rpm
* Rated output 1500W
* Max output 4329W
* Rated Torque 83.46Kg-cm
* Max Torque 98.36Kg-cm
* Rated Amp 29.52A, 75A
* Insulation class E class
* External Driver
* Control method PWM
*Ambient temperature -15C~40C *Efficiency: 93.23%
* weight 4.8 Kg
 
I think it's the same 1500w motor that cyclone sell, but i've read that the motors are pretty good performers and can handle more power than the controller in the 1500w kit supplies. So it's sold as a 72V 3000W kit with a different kelly controller.

However, 98kgcm to 90NM is a hell of a jump. Probs a type on the web pages where it's quoted.
 
As they give figures for rated and also maximum torque, I think they are the ones to believe. No way can that run of the mill Chinese motor put out 90Nm cont. torque. That's 18.75Nm/kg LOL!
 
At that torque I think it would snap my bike after rotating the frame around the rear wheel, planting me helmet first into the ground
 
I've been testing the bike. So far i've been running the system at 48v, rather than 72v. Torque is good. I have a power analyser to add still so that I can see what the consumption is in various terrains, at acceleration,etc. So far I've reached 25mph before backing down. The noise isn't bad at all. At a steady 18-20mph it doesn't sound at all noisy. With a start-off/launch pedal boost I have gone from 0 - 20mph in about 3 seconds.

Once everything is refined a bit I will add eight x 33.3v 4000mah packs to give 75V (fully charged) 16ah (just over 1kwh). This should fit in an aluminium box 160mm long x 130mm wide x 180mm tall. Very compact to add into the frame. Hopefully should be good for many miles of offroad fun. Once I have the power analyser connected this week I should be able to see what the consumption is per mile at the current set up.

I will, in the future, add a small detachable sprocket gear reduction (4:1) between the motor and crank for major hill climbing. The torque at the moment is excellent, but I will need more so, with a lower top speed, for a challenge I will be doing at Roseberry Topping.

The video has the test battery pack on, which is six x 22.2V 5000mah lipo packs. The wires will be tidied away with the new pack and all sprayed black so that the entire bike is black. I will put on a video of the bike accelerating and handling rough terrain next.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9VyAOAwIsU&feature=youtu.be








[/youtube]
 
i used two wat meter for 72v.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czfATzbNhus

Here is mine in it's current state. It has 4 x 5800mah packs running as 2S2P, so 50V (fully charged) and 11.8Ah.

Range without pedalling is on average 14 miles. 10 miles with hard riding, 25 miles with very easy cruising. Peak power has been 4200W under acceleration.

Torque is excellent now. I have removed the LVC when prgramming the kelly controller. As the voltage sags under load I think that the kelly must have been holding back the amps as the voltage approached the cut-off. When the LVC was set at 36V (3.0V per cell) I was only getting peaks of 3000w.

My next 2 changes are to add the final two 5800mah packs, so it will run at 75V (fully charged) and 11.8Ah, as it is currently only at two thirds of it's rating. This will give approx 6.3kw peak power and 50% more range.

Rather than buy an expensive, poor quality or bulky 72V watt meter for the handlebars, I was considering this upgrade....

http://www.hobbyking.co.uk/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=41637

This will plug into the balance lead of one pack and provide a capacity % remaining - exactly what i want. Also, this shortens the load wiring so that the power will go directly to the controller (rather than to the handlebars and back). A 30cm JST balance cable will lead to the handlebars instead.

However, the weakness here is that this only measures one pack. I can certainly test the bike and find out what the weakest pack is - so that the worst case remaning capacity is displayed. But does anybody know if it is safe to do the following....

Use a 6 x parallel JST lead to conenct all balance leads together and run this to the meter (to average readings)? This is whilst the battery is in use on the bike. So the main load leads are connected as 3S2P (to the controller), but the balance leads are connected 6P, at the same time.

Is this a danagerous set-up for lipos?

Cheers.
 
I am upgrading the transmission from motor to crank using a similar set up to a gng kit, apart from this is a bigger and more powerful motor.

I have added a strip of 4mm thick aluminium, fixed to the motor to give a 12:35 reduction between the motor and sprocket. The chain for this is 8mm 05B, making it quieter. I will then try two different second stage reductions.

1: 14 tooth bike chain to 48 tooth crank. Total motor to crank reduction will then be 10:1
2: 12 tooth #35 chain to 75 tooth crank. Total motor to crank reduction will then be 18.2:1

I have made a spreadsheet to calculate everything, based on maximum motor rpm of 5400rpm at 72V.

Using the current rear wheel cassette with a large sprocket of 28tooth, set-up 1 gives a top 1st gear speed of 28mph, so about 10 mph at the motors maximum efficiency level, which will be good for steep hill climbing. Maximum torque would be 90NM at the crank.

Set-up 2 gives a top 1st gear speed of 19mph and maximum crank torque of 164NM.

I have a bit of freedom to go with various reductions with the second stage. This is where I will try these two 'extremes' to see where I want the performance to sit.

The original cyclone 3000w single reduction set up is a 7:48 reduction. The 7 tooth sprocket makes the entire system quite noisy. I'm hoping that this two stage set-up will reduce the noise and make the bike more efficient. I have done around 300 miles on the bike and the motor seems to want to pull hard in any gear. It is the efficiency of the system that isn't great, especially at low speeds (around 10mph).

IMG_20140731_075920.jpg
 
it's hard to tell which motor has what rpm per volt.....
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=78931


Miles said:
Is it the one halfway down this page?
http://www.cyclone-tw.com/dc24.htm

* Max speed 3223Rpm
* Rated speed 4111Rpm
* Rated output 1500W
* Max output 4329W
* Rated Torque 83.46Kg-cm
* Max Torque 98.36Kg-cm
* Rated Amp 29.52A, 75A
* Insulation class E class
* External Driver
* Control method PWM
*Ambient temperature -15C~40C *Efficiency: 93.23%
* weight 4.8 Kg
 
Back
Top