LMX P2 : Freeride trials motorcycle frame development

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
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brumbrum
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Re: LMX P2 : Freeride trials motorcycle frame development

Post by brumbrum » Mar 18, 2018 6:49 am

bzhwindtalker wrote:
May 06, 2017 2:16 pm
skeetab5780 wrote:
DasDouble wrote:this. is. art.
Yes unfortunately this now falls into the dreamers category for most people because who is going to spend this much for a bike.

I myself am extremely disappointed that they are no longer producing the steel frames since it would have been the only thing I could afford, website is now sold out and only offering the $3000 aluminum frame. I am getting my company bonus soon an was really looking forward to trying the steel LMX...but not anymore
Frame is 2500€ incl 20% VAT and that includes the motor, complete transmission and complete back wheel along with all plastics, footpegs and headset also included.

Here is a small comparaison for you :

Q76R price with moto seat :744€ https://qulbix.com/qulbix-products/diy/ ... -frame-kit
Their hub motor with back wheel laced : 630€ https://qulbix.com/qulbix-products/diy/ ... otor-kit-3
Headset : 12-20€
CNC footpegs 25€ + DIY mount (€€?)
Front and back fenders 60€

Total 1470€ for another etank (copyright HagopT)

Also check prices for bikes from HPC and neematic for exemple, easily over 10K

adam

Hi, i want to make an immediate purchase of the lmx161 base kit. Could you please confirm that the kit still comes with the headset and the footpegs. I have signed up to your website and forum ready to make purchase.
Thanks
Andrew

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Re: LMX P2 : Freeride trials motorcycle frame development

Post by bzhwindtalker » Mar 19, 2018 3:00 am

Hello,
We include the headset (ball type)
Footpegs are included also.

I will reply to your PM

Best regards, Adam

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Re: LMX P2 : Freeride trials motorcycle frame development

Post by brumbrum » Mar 19, 2018 3:13 am

bzhwindtalker wrote:
Mar 19, 2018 3:00 am
Hello,
We include the headset (ball type)
Footpegs are included also.

I will reply to your PM

Best regards, Adam
Thanks Adam.

One last question. Does the 161 base kit come with the latest 2017 lmx005 motor., and what is recommended top peak power for this motor?

I will be in touch asap. :D

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Re: LMX P2 : Freeride trials motorcycle frame development

Post by bzhwindtalker » Mar 19, 2018 11:10 am

The kit includes the 60mm motor with 14mm axle. We ordered those engines with 0.35mm laminations but were shipped 0.5. Performance is already good with efficiency of 85%
Here is our test bench, we have 2 motors and 2 controllers, one driving and other regen, both one one battery.
On the test we held 3.8-3.3kw in and around 2.6 out for 30 mins, with about 3kw mechanical.
screenshot-photos.google.com 2018.03.19 17-04-53.png
screenshot-photos.google.com 2018.03.19 17-05-21.png


We tested the engines to 3.5Kw / 30 minutes. Peak of 8-10kw is fine, we reccomend the 18 mosfet KBS-AX controllers for the offroad model, they can peak 180A if your battery can handle it. I would reccomend 130-150A peak max, over that is pretty much uncontrollable.

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Re: LMX P2 : Freeride trials motorcycle frame development

Post by maitilupas » Mar 19, 2018 11:34 am

ah this is so good to know , thanks Adam !
I bought the Kely KBS it ends in E not AX the lowest controller does 80 continuous and 160 boost and i was making some tests yesterday

Image

do you think the motor can handle some 160 boosts now and than ? i would like to use it for climbing some obstacles, small hils, rocks, , logs etc, like trial.. yesterday was freezing outside and went with the bike and never overheated for about 10 min sending 60 and 80 amps and boosts of 130 / 160 ..

im fine using like the lmx stock one 50 cont amps and i can use the economy function for that. and use the amp peak for trial parts, but im not sure if i should think about cooling the motor for the summer?

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Re: LMX P2 : Freeride trials motorcycle frame development

Post by madin88 » Mar 19, 2018 11:57 am

We tested the engines to 3.5Kw / 30 minutes. Peak of 8-10kw is fine, we reccomend the 18 mosfet KBS-AX controllers for the offroad model, they can peak 180A if your battery can handle it. I would reccomend 130-150A peak max, over that is pretty much uncontrollable.
Nice!
uncontrollable = wheelie? :)

I'd be interested in knowing the phase to phase resistance of this 60mm motor. Have you measured it?
No-load consumption would also interest me.
maitilupas wrote:
Mar 19, 2018 11:34 am
do you think the motor can handle some 160 boosts now and than ? i would like to use it for climbing some obstacles, small hils, stones, logs etc, like trial.. yesterday was freezing outside and went with the bike and never overheated for about 10 min sending 60 and 80 amps and boosts of 130 / 160 ..

im fine using like the lmx stock one 50 cont amps and i can use the economy function for that. and use the amp peak for trial parts, but im not sure if i should think about cooling the motor for the summer?
I would say it can handle even more amps for short burts, but it is important that you monitore the temperature.

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Re: LMX P2 : Freeride trials motorcycle frame development

Post by brumbrum » Mar 19, 2018 2:11 pm

Thanks Adam, I am sold. I am going to purchase the base kit... I just hope i can rely on some support from LMX whilst i am building my bike which will be documented on here on this thread.

LMX 161 base kit paid for.
Thanks
Andrew. C

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Re: LMX P2 : Freeride trials motorcycle frame development

Post by maitilupas » Mar 19, 2018 2:32 pm

brumbrum wrote:
Mar 19, 2018 2:11 pm
Thanks Adam, I am sold. I am going to purchase the base kit... I just hope i can rely on some support from LMX whilst i am building my bike which will be documented on here on this thread.

LMX 161 base kit paid for.
Thanks
Andrew. C
really cool that you are going to document that!

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Re: LMX P2 : Freeride trials motorcycle frame development

Post by BCTECH » Mar 19, 2018 2:44 pm

will be the first LMX build thread.
subscribed :D

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Re: LMX P2 : Freeride trials motorcycle frame development

Post by brumbrum » Mar 19, 2018 4:02 pm

Yep, defo needed on the forum. All help with wiring appreciated :D
As soon as I get the base kit and frameiwillmake a walkthrough video and go from there. Happy days !


Hopefully it will be in the France /UK post very soon. :D

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Re: LMX P2 : Freeride trials motorcycle frame development

Post by Matt_92 » Mar 20, 2018 7:36 am

...bravo les Frenchies !! c'est pas mal du tout votre affaire :wink:
.
Congratulation from La Region Parisienne :mrgreen:
.
225px-Flag_of_France.svg.jpeg
225px-Flag_of_France.svg.jpeg (7.43 KiB) Viewed 626 times
...from France, sorry for my english :oops:

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Re: LMX P2 : Freeride trials motorcycle frame development

Post by Matt_92 » Mar 20, 2018 7:51 am

bzhwindtalker wrote:
Jul 02, 2017 4:15 am
Thanks Guys, as for living from it, well lets say i'm betting on the future for now :roll:
With My engineering degree and experience I could easily be doing 45K€/year in any decent company, but at least now I get to create something radically new.
...in Paris, you can easily pretend 80k€ as Engineer in an international company, with 10 years senority !! But what you do is most rewarding that any job !! One more time (as Daft Punk says) : CONGRATULATION. I would love create or integrate a compagny like yours, you are a example for me.
bzhwindtalker wrote:
Jul 02, 2017 4:15 am
We are basically a 2 guys team trying to match or best efforts from all of the big company and teams, that is no easy task!! We have 2 trainees in mechanical and product design joining the team from September that should help spread the workload, especially for the development of new test benchs for battery and engines.
...juste pour info, vous arrivez a (sur)vivre ? vous vous payez ? vous faites du benef ? vous avez des avantages financiers ou matériels ? Si la question est trop "private", vous pouvez me répondre en privé ? ca m’intéresse vraiment de savoir...
...from France, sorry for my english :oops:

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Re: LMX P2 : Freeride trials motorcycle frame development

Post by bzhwindtalker » Mar 21, 2018 4:20 am

Matt,
I can not give much details here, but things are going well driven by strong sales. We are now working on consolidating the team in the sales and production dept to have more free time for new developments. We will rent a second 150m2 workshop next door for assembly as soon as it is available. Both me and Lucas have small pay (like 25k or something) and of course we pay the two guys in training.

We will open our capital to private investors for the first time around the end of the year to get to the next level of production capacity and finish to develop the new models (LMX 64 for 2019 season and LMX 321 around 2020)

Thanks for your order Andrew, We will keep you informed of the status via email. Lucas will finish welding the frame next week I think.

maitilupas, the 151 AX is a 12 fet like the 121X. it has the same limitations on phase amps as the 121 but can handle more in the high RPM or is programmed with higher max amps. We moved to the 181 18 mosfet for serial production now to have a bigger safety margin.

Adam

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Re: LMX P2 : Freeride trials motorcycle frame development

Post by Matt_92 » Mar 21, 2018 7:11 am

bzhwindtalker wrote:
Mar 21, 2018 4:20 am
Matt,
I can not give much details here, but things are going well driven by strong sales. We are now working on consolidating the team in the sales and production dept to have more free time for new developments. We will rent a second 150m2 workshop next door for assembly as soon as it is available. Both me and Lucas have small pay (like 25k or something) and of course we pay the two guys in training.
Thx for the infos guys ! Hope you will update and grow your product range and business. If you grow up with a second workshop, it's a good sign :wink:

Last thing I would know, do you manufacture all your parts (I don't peak of commercial parts) ? or do you ask to contractors for specific process (laser cut for example) ? Do you machine, bend, weld all your mechanical parts ? Do you have CNC or conventionaI machining process for milling or turning ? I ask that because shortly I will need people (or contractors) to help me to manufacture my mid drive (laser cut and easy conventional turning)... I don't know if you have seen my project ?

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 2&start=50

All the best for you :wink:
Bravo !!
...from France, sorry for my english :oops:

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Re: LMX P2 : Freeride trials motorcycle frame development

Post by BCTECH » Mar 21, 2018 11:55 am

Hey Adam,
while you are producing the frame kit for Andrew, can I add my order and have Lucas to weld the frame at the same time?

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Re: LMX P2 : Freeride trials motorcycle frame development

Post by maitilupas » Mar 21, 2018 4:34 pm

bzhwindtalker wrote:
Mar 21, 2018 4:20 am
maitilupas, the 151 AX is a 12 fet like the 121X. it has the same limitations on phase amps as the 121 but can handle more in the high RPM or is programmed with higher max amps. We moved to the 181 18 mosfet for serial production now to have a bigger safety margin.

Adam
Hm i should had contacted you about this before purchasing the 151 than.. didnt know it had a difference in mosfets..

and eventualy if you make your bikes now with the 181 controller, that would be a much more powerfull ebike where can really compete now with motorbikes for sure , keep the tests going on!

only one minor minor thing i dont like about these controllers , they have throtle lag ... its almost nothing , but it has and that upsets me...
i contacted kelly abou this, they say sorry this was made for specific ev projects..

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Re: LMX P2 : Freeride trials motorcycle frame development

Post by brumbrum » Mar 21, 2018 4:54 pm

bzhwindtalker wrote:
Mar 21, 2018 4:20 am
Matt,
I can not give much details here, but things are going well driven by strong sales. We are now working on consolidating the team in the sales and production dept to have more free time for new developments. We will rent a second 150m2 workshop next door for assembly as soon as it is available. Both me and Lucas have small pay (like 25k or something) and of course we pay the two guys in training.

We will open our capital to private investors for the first time around the end of the year to get to the next level of production capacity and finish to develop the new models (LMX 64 for 2019 season and LMX 321 around 2020)

Thanks for your order Andrew, We will keep you informed of the status via email. Lucas will finish welding the frame next week I think.

maitilupas, the 151 AX is a 12 fet like the 121X. it has the same limitations on phase amps as the 121 but can handle more in the high RPM or is programmed with higher max amps. We moved to the 181 18 mosfet for serial production now to have a bigger safety margin.

Adam

So what is the exact model name of the recommended 18fet controller that LMX are now using? Kelly make a lot of differing models,, its a bit confusing espeically as they seem to only give continuous and peak current of phase amps and not battery amps


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Re: LMX P2 : Freeride trials motorcycle frame development

Post by bzhwindtalker » Mar 22, 2018 4:03 am


Hm i should had contacted you about this before purchasing the 151 than.. didnt know it had a difference in mosfets..

and eventualy if you make your bikes now with the 181 controller, that would be a much more powerfull ebike where can really compete now with motorbikes for sure , keep the tests going on!

only one minor minor thing i dont like about these controllers , they have throtle lag ... its almost nothing , but it has and that upsets me...
i contacted kelly abou this, they say sorry this was made for specific ev projects..
The throttle lag can be set by accelerate speed or throttle up/down rate set to 10/100 or 1/10 depending on software used (fastest)

Did you try it?

Adam

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Re: LMX P2 : Freeride trials motorcycle frame development

Post by maitilupas » Mar 22, 2018 5:39 am

yes I used in min , and without smooth setting , the lag is barely noticable , but there is a lag, imagining , you want to twist the throttle and have immediately response i mean in less than 20ms or so

by the way im using domino throttle with 5v setting in kelly without any resistor between the kelly and domino

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Re: LMX P2 : Freeride trials motorcycle frame development

Post by brumbrum » Mar 22, 2018 6:23 am

maitilupas wrote:
Mar 22, 2018 1:48 am
think its this one:

http://kellycontroller.com/kbs72181e110 ... -1315.html
Thanks, I hope that’s corrrect.

Has anyone tried a Lyen 18fet with the lmx motor? I have access to one which could save me some money

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Re: LMX P2 : Freeride trials motorcycle frame development

Post by bzhwindtalker » Mar 22, 2018 6:58 am

brumbrum wrote:
Mar 22, 2018 6:23 am
maitilupas wrote:
Mar 22, 2018 1:48 am
think its this one:

http://kellycontroller.com/kbs72181e110 ... -1315.html
Thanks, I hope that’s corrrect.

Has anyone tried a Lyen 18fet with the lmx motor? I have access to one which could save me some money
Yes its Probaly OK to use but the throttle response may be harsh/too fast, it was why I switched to kelly in the first place.

Adam

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Re: LMX P2 : Freeride trials motorcycle frame development

Post by brumbrum » Mar 22, 2018 7:12 am

Thanks. Yes , good point, the throttle control is brutal

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Re: LMX P2 : Freeride trials motorcycle frame development

Post by maitilupas » Mar 22, 2018 8:11 am

than should I try this ? i want fast throttle but also want a smooth ramp

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Re: LMX P2 : Freeride trials motorcycle frame development

Post by BCTECH » Mar 22, 2018 8:31 am

BCTECH wrote:
Mar 21, 2018 11:55 am
Hey Adam,
while you are producing the frame kit for Andrew, can I add my order and have Lucas to weld the frame at the same time?
I have sent you pm also, pls let me know if you got it

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