LMX P2 : Freeride trials motorcycle frame development

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
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brumbrum
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Re: LMX P2 : Freeride trials motorcycle frame development

Post by brumbrum » Mar 22, 2018 9:30 am

maitilupas wrote:
Mar 22, 2018 8:11 am
than should I try this ? i want fast throttle but also want a smooth ramp
No smooth ramp up on Lyen controller, just one big hit of max amps. Very twitchy and dangerous on powerful bike. I think there is a way to make a throttle tamer but I have never tried. It is well documented on the forum. I think a Cycle analyst v3 can tame throttle. It can be done by using ‘current’ throttle settings in CA v2.3 as well. If you look up the manual for a CA v2.3. It will show you

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Re: LMX P2 : Freeride trials motorcycle frame development

Post by maitilupas » Mar 22, 2018 2:56 pm

i red before about that throttle tame, but thining about if using that is realy worth to give up kelly which has very nice features just because of a few ms, i have to investigate about those controllers than .
well i come from the motorcyle backgound and i notice allot the lag even if its close to zero i just notice it.
you dont want that, specially for trials

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Re: LMX P2 : Freeride trials motorcycle frame development

Post by brumbrum » Mar 22, 2018 3:26 pm

I wonder if these controllers would work with th lmx motor? https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 31&t=75888

I suspect not as i did read somewhere that the lmx motor would not work well with sinewave controller. Anyone know any different?

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Re: LMX P2 : Freeride trials motorcycle frame development

Post by maitilupas » Mar 23, 2018 1:43 am

have a look into these, think kelly made a special programming for the motors of these guys , maybe to consider?

http://www.eastgem.net/accsesories.html

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Re: LMX P2 : Freeride trials motorcycle frame development

Post by skeetab5780 » Mar 23, 2018 7:34 am

maitilupas wrote:
Mar 23, 2018 1:43 am
have a look into these, think kelly made a special programming for the motors of these guys , maybe to consider?

http://www.eastgem.net/accsesories.html
that is where I got my KLS7218SW and it does not work with my LRHDD which is similar to the LMX motors I think

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Re: LMX P2 : Freeride trials motorcycle frame development

Post by madin88 » Mar 23, 2018 9:56 am

maitilupas wrote:
Mar 23, 2018 1:43 am
have a look into these, think kelly made a special programming for the motors of these guys , maybe to consider?

http://www.eastgem.net/accsesories.html
The LMX motor is better because it has a wider stator which means more torque and better efficiency under load :wink:

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Re: LMX P2 : Freeride trials motorcycle frame development

Post by brumbrum » Mar 23, 2018 11:24 am

madin88 wrote:
Mar 23, 2018 9:56 am
maitilupas wrote:
Mar 23, 2018 1:43 am
have a look into these, think kelly made a special programming for the motors of these guys , maybe to consider?

http://www.eastgem.net/accsesories.html
The LMX motor is better because it has a wider stator which means more torque and better efficiency under load :wink:
Yes, lmx is 60mm stator.
I need to purchase a controller and although the kelly kbs18 will do the job nicely the programming software looks really rubbish lol. It seems to have arbitrary units and strange function titles from the screen shots i've seen.

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Re: LMX P2 : Freeride trials motorcycle frame development

Post by skeetab5780 » Mar 23, 2018 6:05 pm

brumbrum wrote:
Mar 23, 2018 11:24 am
madin88 wrote:
Mar 23, 2018 9:56 am
maitilupas wrote:
Mar 23, 2018 1:43 am
have a look into these, think kelly made a special programming for the motors of these guys , maybe to consider?

http://www.eastgem.net/accsesories.html
The LMX motor is better because it has a wider stator which means more torque and better efficiency under load :wink:
Yes, lmx is 60mm stator.
I need to purchase a controller and although the kelly kbs18 will do the job nicely the programming software looks really rubbish lol. It seems to have arbitrary units and strange function titles from the screen shots i've seen.
KBS programming is better than KLS IMO

im ready to buy another KBS

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Re: LMX P2 : Freeride trials motorcycle frame development

Post by maitilupas » Mar 24, 2018 12:39 am

Yeah the kbs interface is nice
By the way they say kbs don’t work with Bluetooth adaptor but they do! Tried myself.
The Bluetooth interface that’s horrible but handy
Check fany from kelly in this video walking trough
https://vimeo.com/205221244

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Re: LMX P2 : Freeride trials motorcycle frame development

Post by brumbrum » Mar 24, 2018 2:39 am

Thanks guys, thats good to know, and cheers for the video link :D

Yea, it was the KLS interface that i had seen,, very bad.
As you say the KBS is much better. I just looked it up on kelly website. Good :D

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Re: LMX P2 : Freeride trials motorcycle frame development

Post by brumbrum » Mar 24, 2018 9:07 am

Is anyone running higher than 16s/58v nominal or is this the sweet spot for motor rpm and amps.

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Re: LMX P2 : Freeride trials motorcycle frame development

Post by maitilupas » Mar 24, 2018 1:36 pm

yes myself I use 20s, but im curious to try the 16s, it might be a sweet spot as you said.
found this :
spinningmagnets wrote:
Aug 11, 2016 8:20 pm
If using the BHT, the single reduction would work best with a higher voltage, but...if using 48V/52V, the higher kV of the Lightning Rods motor + jackshaft would result in a better torque at the rear wheel.
More testing on the KBS72151E today:
Pushed the bike more and had no problems with overheating.. The only noticeable issues were when I kept full throttle for a while like a
min, the continuous amps eventually dropped from 70s/80 to 60s and even 40s but that actually protects the motor and everything aha

Im also curious to try the new motors lmx as i have an old version and new ones tend to drop less or heat less

how do you cool these motors with liquid? hard job?

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Re: LMX P2 : Freeride trials motorcycle frame development

Post by spinningmagnets » Mar 24, 2018 3:46 pm

how do you cool these motors with liquid? hard job?
All it takes is time, tools, and money...

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Re: LMX P2 : Freeride trials motorcycle frame development

Post by bzhwindtalker » Mar 26, 2018 8:18 am

spinningmagnets wrote:
Mar 24, 2018 3:46 pm
how do you cool these motors with liquid? hard job?
All it takes is time, tools, and money...
We did it back in 2016, on the 50mm motors, but we found out the weight and complexity was not worth the improved/constant cooling rate. It sure did a big difference, but was turning our cheap motors into very expensive ones due to manual work and disassembly.

We switched to 60mm and not looked back.

Adam

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Re: LMX P2 : Freeride trials motorcycle frame development

Post by bzhwindtalker » Mar 26, 2018 8:21 am

skeetab5780 wrote:
Mar 23, 2018 6:05 pm

KBS programming is better than KLS IMO

im ready to buy another KBS
Please only use KBS with our engines. it has been tested multiples times with sin wave like KLS or adapto, never with good results due to non ideal hall sensor signal. the Denzel engine is compatible with KLS because it uses external hall, probably with cleaner halls signals, but it adds bulk and weight.

Adam

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Re: LMX P2 : Freeride trials motorcycle frame development

Post by bionicon » Mar 26, 2018 12:59 pm

How does the power of the lmx engine relate to a hub motor like the qs205, to get an idea of ​​the power of the lmx engine?

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Re: LMX P2 : Freeride trials motorcycle frame development

Post by maitilupas » Mar 26, 2018 1:17 pm

bionicon wrote:
Mar 26, 2018 12:59 pm
How does the power of the lmx engine relate to a hub motor like the qs205, to get an idea of ​​the power of the lmx engine?
I dont know , but I would like to kick ass a stealth bomber with my lmx :)

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Re: LMX P2 : Freeride trials motorcycle frame development

Post by skeetab5780 » Mar 26, 2018 4:23 pm

maitilupas wrote:
Mar 26, 2018 1:17 pm
bionicon wrote:
Mar 26, 2018 12:59 pm
How does the power of the lmx engine relate to a hub motor like the qs205, to get an idea of ​​the power of the lmx engine?
I dont know , but I would like to kick ass a stealth bomber with my lmx :)
That will be easy off road, less weight more torque/ hill climb capability, less unpsrung swing weight...easier to change flats

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Re: LMX P2 : Freeride trials motorcycle frame development

Post by sn0wchyld » Mar 26, 2018 10:58 pm

bzhwindtalker wrote:
Mar 26, 2018 8:18 am
spinningmagnets wrote:
Mar 24, 2018 3:46 pm
how do you cool these motors with liquid? hard job?
All it takes is time, tools, and money...
We did it back in 2016, on the 50mm motors, but we found out the weight and complexity was not worth the improved/constant cooling rate. It sure did a big difference, but was turning our cheap motors into very expensive ones due to manual work and disassembly.

We switched to 60mm and not looked back.

Adam
^^ this
generally, if you want more continuous power, your best ROI will come from putting more weight and volume into copper and iron, rather than water, radiator and pumps. 2kg of the latter buys you a lot of the former, with the added benefit of more peak power, and typically higher efficiency too! The only reason to go to active cooling is if you've filled whatever space you can where your motor resides with copper and iron first. There are some exceptions (such as a hub motor, where the extra weight may be better placed on the frame by way of pumps and radiators than more unsprung weight) but generally, invest in Cu and Fe before H20 and Al.

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Re: LMX P2 : Freeride trials motorcycle frame development

Post by sn0wchyld » Mar 26, 2018 10:59 pm

bzhwindtalker wrote:
Mar 26, 2018 8:21 am
skeetab5780 wrote:
Mar 23, 2018 6:05 pm

KBS programming is better than KLS IMO

im ready to buy another KBS
Please only use KBS with our engines. it has been tested multiples times with sin wave like KLS or adapto, never with good results due to non ideal hall sensor signal. the Denzel engine is compatible with KLS because it uses external hall, probably with cleaner halls signals, but it adds bulk and weight.

Adam
KBS/KLS - what controllers are these? chs

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Re: LMX P2 : Freeride trials motorcycle frame development

Post by madin88 » Mar 27, 2018 2:22 am

sn0wchyld wrote:
Mar 26, 2018 10:59 pm
KBS/KLS - what controllers are these? chs
KBS = trapezoidal controllers
KLS = sinewave controllers (which seems to be way more sensitive in terms of hall signals or probably motor design generally)

The kits from Denzel also have trapezoidal controllers (even the large D7500 one which would have the halls outside and away from the windings).

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Re: LMX P2 : Freeride trials motorcycle frame development

Post by skeetab5780 » Mar 27, 2018 4:49 am

sn0wchyld wrote:
Mar 26, 2018 10:59 pm
bzhwindtalker wrote:
Mar 26, 2018 8:21 am
skeetab5780 wrote:
Mar 23, 2018 6:05 pm

KBS programming is better than KLS IMO

im ready to buy another KBS
Please only use KBS with our engines. it has been tested multiples times with sin wave like KLS or adapto, never with good results due to non ideal hall sensor signal. the Denzel engine is compatible with KLS because it uses external hall, probably with cleaner halls signals, but it adds bulk and weight.

Adam
KBS/KLS - what controllers are these? chs
The brand is kelly controllers you can just google its a huge company

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Re: LMX P2 : Freeride trials motorcycle frame development

Post by brumbrum » Mar 27, 2018 5:17 am

What about a matching bms for the lmx motor. I am currently hunting one down. I suppose 50a continuous and 120a peak at a minimum? Or is that conservative?

I am finding it particularly difficult sourcing a bms that will be reliable and has the correct amp rating and has a seperate (C-) port for a charger plug.

If anyone has any ideas please post it up. I have asked Bestech in China if i can purchase this... http://bestechpower.com/592v16spcmbmspc ... 223V1.html
But have heard nothing back yet, and they probably over charge for single item or have minimum order.

I see that on the LMX website there is a 50a bms for sale, but there is no information or images , so i am not sure if it will be compatible with the current lmx motor. Adam? Any details on the bms you sell?

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Re: LMX P2 : Freeride trials motorcycle frame development

Post by maitilupas » Mar 27, 2018 6:07 am

brumbrum wrote:
Mar 27, 2018 5:17 am
What about a matching bms for the lmx motor. I am currently hunting one down. I suppose 50a continuous and 120a peak at a minimum? Or is that conservative?
maybe these?
http://www.eastgem.net/bms.html

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Re: LMX P2 : Freeride trials motorcycle frame development

Post by brumbrum » Mar 27, 2018 7:41 am

maitilupas wrote:
Mar 27, 2018 6:07 am
brumbrum wrote:
Mar 27, 2018 5:17 am
What about a matching bms for the lmx motor. I am currently hunting one down. I suppose 50a continuous and 120a peak at a minimum? Or is that conservative?
maybe these?
http://www.eastgem.net/bms.html
Looks really good , though its android only , no IOS Which i would need.

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