Bafang BBSxx - fault finding and fixes

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JTL
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Re: Bafang BBSxx - fault finding and fixes

Post by JTL » Dec 04, 2016 2:52 pm

I have a very new BBSHD and I took it for a test ride today with my wife. Since she does not yet have an ebike I was trying to stay at her relatively slow speed. It was a lot of start and stop for the motor, I tried both pas and throttle. What I noticed was a very distinct feel when the freewheel engaged, it also made a loud noise. At times I felt a double clunk but I think that was the rear hub freewheel engaging. When I got home I took some videos. The first one is with the chain off so I could isolate just the BBSHD. The second and third show the sound with the chain in place and also the noise I get when I hit the rear brake. I also noticed that the throttle stopped working on occasion when I was doing these tests, but if I released it and tried again it worked. Any thoughts or comments?




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Re: Bafang BBSxx - fault finding and fixes

Post by waynebergman » Dec 04, 2016 8:09 pm

JTL, not sure how your controller is programed, does it have stock factory settings? I have my HD 1000 set up so the pas has a very gentle ramp up at onset. This way it gently tensions the chain before full or extra power is applied. The nice thing about the pas being set to a slow ramp up is you can have your throttle set to give faster input that will automatically override the pas slow start up settings if and when you want this. What I tend to do for lot of stop and go is start the power with the pas/pedal input and dial in the power needed with the throttle for trail riding. The clunking we are hearing on your videos I think will sounds worse than it would normally when riden as it's not under load. Even a small slow start up setting will jolt your system into kind of a shocked state when not under load like in the videos.

By the way.....what I said earlier "This way it gently tensions the chain before full or extra power is applied" is crucial for going easy on the system and a more pleasant feel to the drive.

I would recommend reading up on and purchasing the program cable for this motor. The controller setting options you would then have at our disposal for dialing in the motor with custom settings give you extra control on the kind of issues you are discribing.

I can not speak for the throttle not working from time to time as you report. ............wayne

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Re: Bafang BBSxx - fault finding and fixes

Post by tomjasz » Dec 05, 2016 12:58 pm

Full throttle and braking is NOT normal driving conditions and you should not use this as a test. There is somewhat of a clunk like sound engaging. Go to the reseller form and go to the thread on programming. The guys there will help you. You'll get more feedback from other BBSHD users.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: Bafang BBSxx - fault finding and fixes

Post by tomjasz » Dec 05, 2016 1:00 pm

Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: Bafang BBSxx - fault finding and fixes

Post by Animalector » Dec 15, 2016 6:32 am

Ok. Bbs02 750w bottomed out on a rock. Dented the controller housing. Motor ran for a bit, but sounded funny then stopped working. very difficult to turn backwards, shorted phase. It was the blue phase.

Ok so I removed the controller, dug out the potting, and replaced the three FETS, with $20 worth of Irfb3077. plug her back in power up, give the throttle a twist and hey presto, it spins...

BUT.......

When I released the throttle, at first it didn't want to stop spinning. Ok probably because I don't have the speed sensor moving as this was a bench test with motor removed. So i just choose assist 0 and it stopped spinning. But the motor continued to make a ticking sound, like it was try to turn really slowly. I tried the throttle again and this time click..... nothing

Blown phase again.

Same phase, high side, 0R from phase to +bat.

I'm a bit worried that the knock had done something in the motor that is blowing the controller, I have a new controller coming and dint want to fry it first up.

Could it be the halls or the pas system contributing to the phase failure I wouldn't have thought so?...

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Re: Bafang BBSxx - fault finding and fixes

Post by Ykick » Dec 15, 2016 8:33 am

Check the Hall sensors for switching on each signal wire while powered up and rotating backwards to defeat the freewheel so that the motor turns.

If they’re all working/switching, you may have damaged the motor windings and that will require further inspection and some deeper troubleshooting to determine.
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Re: Bafang BBSxx - fault finding and fixes

Post by sly744 » Dec 15, 2016 2:55 pm

To win 7.05ouce on my BBS02 750W I pierced the axis + the pinion

Image

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Re: Bafang BBSxx - fault finding and fixes

Post by JTL » Dec 15, 2016 3:16 pm

sly744 wrote:To win 7.05ouce on my BBS02 750W I pierced the axis + the pinion

Image
That is certainly one way to eliminate weight. For me that is not even one beer:)

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Re: Bafang BBSxx - fault finding and fixes

Post by sly744 » Dec 15, 2016 3:45 pm

The Bafang BBS02 is mounted on a carbon frame the total weight with the battery is less than 37,48 lb

Image

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Re: Bafang BBSxx - fault finding and fixes

Post by liontail » Dec 30, 2016 4:57 pm

[attachment=0]Bafang Outer Gear Wear.jpg[/attachment]Hey all-

I've been searching and reading through this thread in the hope of finding someone with the same BBS problem that I'm experiencing, but haven't found it. I apologize if this is a redundant post!

My BBS system gives a shuddering/vibrating feeling through the pedals when the motor is engaged. It's the same whether activated via pedaling or throttle. This isn't the "pulsing" that occurs from the current being limited too much for the motor's RPM.

I replaced the controller, and had the same issue. So I have the outer gears a more careful look, and noticed that there was a lot of plastic dust/grease grime inside the motor's enclosure, and larger gear looked pretty worn:

[attachment=0]Bafang Outer Gear Wear.jpg[/attachment]

(Notice the assymmetry in the U-shaped tooth voids on the larger gear... looks like the "shark fin" that signifies an overly worn chainring to me!)

Does this look to you like the cause of the motor shudder?

Thanks!
Attachments
Bafang Outer Gear Wear.jpg

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Re: Bafang BBSxx - fault finding and fixes

Post by alfantastic » Dec 30, 2016 9:53 pm

liontail wrote:
The attachment Bafang Outer Gear Wear.jpg is no longer available
Hey all-

I've been searching and reading through this thread in the hope of finding someone with the same BBS problem that I'm experiencing, but haven't found it. I apologize if this is a redundant post!

My BBS system gives a shuddering/vibrating feeling through the pedals when the motor is engaged. It's the same whether activated via pedaling or throttle. This isn't the "pulsing" that occurs from the current being limited too much for the motor's RPM.

I replaced the controller, and had the same issue. So I have the outer gears a more careful look, and noticed that there was a lot of plastic dust/grease grime inside the motor's enclosure, and larger gear looked pretty worn:
The attachment Bafang Outer Gear Wear.jpg is no longer available
(Notice the assymmetry in the U-shaped tooth voids on the larger gear... looks like the "shark fin" that signifies an overly worn chainring to me!)

Does this look to you like the cause of the motor shudder?

Thanks!
Doesn't look any different to mine, although I pack it out with grease when it gets a little noisy.
Final Drive.jpg

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Re: Bafang BBSxx - fault finding and fixes

Post by liontail » Jan 01, 2017 3:40 pm

Doesn't look any different to mine, although I pack it out with grease when it gets a little noisy.
It's impossible to really tell from your image, but your larger gear doesn't look worn like mine.

Anyone else ever had a gear that looked like this, and experienced a weird feeling from the drive?

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Re: Bafang BBSxx - fault finding and fixes

Post by dustNbone » Jan 01, 2017 8:27 pm

It looks pretty good to me, fairly sharp edges on the gear still. I'd cram a bunch of grease in there, use it to push out all the yucky stuff, and see how it does after that. Mine was a whole new machine after a proper grease job. If it's pulsing once per pedal revolution, there's really not much else it could be, the rest of the drive system turns much faster than the pedals.

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Re: Bafang BBSxx - fault finding and fixes

Post by alfantastic » Jan 02, 2017 5:31 pm

I used a cheap wet and dry vacuum cleaner to suck out all the old grease, before replacing it with some thicker stuff.
Final Drive.jpg
This is the grease I replaced it with.
Lucas grease.jpg
Lucas grease.jpg (10.83 KiB) Viewed 2379 times

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Re: Bafang BBSxx - fault finding and fixes

Post by vk4bxi » Jan 02, 2017 5:58 pm

Hi guys,
While we are talking grease jobs. My bbs 02 750watt is coming up for ~1000km. I greased the final gears at about 500km.......they were just starting to get noisy (very little grease left there) .Now of course I worry about the primary pair of gears. Searches show what to do, but not very much guidance on when. Does anyone have a servicing schedule or something like that ? The best I see so far is once a year when it's too cold outside, but I live in Queensland and cycle year round with little rain or dust. ( It does rain of course but I don't ride in the wet).
The primary gear set are not so easy to get access to .......has anyone tried drilling hole and installing a grease nipple in a suitable place ? (Yes grease nipples still do exist although I haven't seen one on a car for a long time now)

Regards Bob

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Re: Bafang BBSxx - fault finding and fixes

Post by alfantastic » Jan 03, 2017 7:14 am

vk4bxi wrote:Hi guys,
While we are talking grease jobs. My bbs 02 750watt is coming up for ~1000km. I greased the final gears at about 500km.......they were just starting to get noisy (very little grease left there) .Now of course I worry about the primary pair of gears. Searches show what to do, but not very much guidance on when. Does anyone have a servicing schedule or something like that ? The best I see so far is once a year when it's too cold outside, but I live in Queensland and cycle year round with little rain or dust. ( It does rain of course but I don't ride in the wet).
The primary gear set are not so easy to get access to .......has anyone tried drilling hole and installing a grease nipple in a suitable place ? (Yes grease nipples still do exist although I haven't seen one on a car for a long time now)

Regards Bob
My BBS02 750w has done 3210m (5165km) and the only servicing I have carried out is the greasing of the final drive. I haven't even contemplated opening her up further, to lube the primary gears. That will only happen when something breaks or I hear any strange running noises.

Like you, I try not to get the unit wet, so I wouldn't worry too much personally :wink:

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Re: Bafang BBSxx - fault finding and fixes

Post by tomjasz » Jan 03, 2017 1:45 pm

alfantastic wrote:I used a cheap wet and dry vacuum cleaner to suck out all the old grease, before replacing it with some thicker stuff.
If I had a vacuum JUST for that purpose, how do you clean that hose and filter?
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: Bafang BBSxx - fault finding and fixes

Post by alfantastic » Jan 03, 2017 6:10 pm

tomjasz wrote:
alfantastic wrote:I used a cheap wet and dry vacuum cleaner to suck out all the old grease, before replacing it with some thicker stuff.
If I had a vacuum JUST for that purpose, how do you clean that hose and filter?
It only cost me £35 ($42), so it'll get abused until it breaks. The filter is a big sponge thing, so I swish it around in a bucket of hot soapy water to get most of the muck off. The hose I don't bother cleaning.

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Re: Bafang BBSxx - fault finding and fixes

Post by tomjasz » Jan 05, 2017 9:44 pm

alfantastic wrote:
tomjasz wrote:
alfantastic wrote:I used a cheap wet and dry vacuum cleaner to suck out all the old grease, before replacing it with some thicker stuff.
If I had a vacuum JUST for that purpose, how do you clean that hose and filter?
It only cost me £35 ($42), so it'll get abused until it breaks. The filter is a big sponge thing, so I swish it around in a bucket of hot soapy water to get most of the muck off. The hose I don't bother cleaning.
Thanks. I'm looking for a garage sale vacuum... mine is to powerful.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: Bafang BBSxx - fault finding and fixes

Post by Tats » Jan 06, 2017 5:47 am

Had a BIG creak from left crank arm - interestingly no nylon and Ali washers between the two lock nuts...just some superglue like hard substance that was breaking down.

Packed bearings with grease and fitted a nylon washer between locknuts and no noise...at the moment. Let's see how it goes.

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Re: Bafang BBSxx - fault finding and fixes

Post by alfantastic » Jan 06, 2017 5:51 am

tomjasz wrote: Thanks. I'm looking for a garage sale vacuum... mine is to powerful.
Mine's very similar to this one:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Stanley-1-ga ... m/34770967

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Re: Bafang BBSxx - fault finding and fixes

Post by tomjasz » Jan 06, 2017 1:15 pm

alfantastic wrote:
tomjasz wrote: Thanks. I'm looking for a garage sale vacuum... mine is to powerful.
Mine's very similar to this one:

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Stanley-1-ga ... m/34770967
Yeah those show up, and like you I can do some stuff I wouldn't do with my big wet or dry. But I do use it in odd ways. The big WD makes a great post hole digger. It sucks sand like no tomorrow. And makes a clean and right sized hole. THANKS for the idea.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: Bafang BBSxx - fault finding and fixes

Post by heathcliff » Jan 28, 2017 9:18 pm

Hi guys,

Newbie here.

I purchased a BBS02B 36V 500W motor from em3ev last august. Managed to ride 2000 kms in 3 months last summer. Now that it's stored for the winter I decided to open it to check things and relubricate and while doing so gather information on parts model numbers since I know there are several variations of pinion gear and nylon gear out there. Goal: order spare parts.

Surprisingly, the inside was very clean. Lubrication was sufficient.
The o-ring on the pinion gear at the 12mm end was shredded.
Two o-rings on the crank axle shaft were also destroyed.

Serial number is 1604015447.
Pinion gear model is 3 (a model 2 variation with an o-ring at the 12mm end).
Nylon gear model is X-2.
Chainring gear model is LD-2.
There is also a number engraved on the crank axle shaft: GXY2016-03-28-Z.

Em3ev sent me a replacement 12mm o-ring and a new crank axle assembly, which took almost a month. Not a problem since it's winter. But I would not accept that in the heart of summer, hence my quest for spare parts now.
The replacement chainring gear however is model number LD and it won't fit in with my model 3 pinion gear unless considerable force is applied. The clutch is also different from what I have. The axle itself is different too (only one o-ring instead of 2 adjacent) but it seem to be compatible anyway.

My guess is if you have a chainring gear model LD, the model LD-2 might fit as a replacement. The inverse is not true.

I have photos for those interested.
http://www.ts-export.com/_mb/bbs02_31de ... GP0412.JPG - the replacement chainring model LD em3ev sent me (lubricated before trying to fit it in! - my mistake)
http://www.ts-export.com/_mb/bbs02_31de ... GP0411.JPG - pinion gear model number 3
http://www.ts-export.com/_mb/bbs02_31de ... GP0410.JPG - my original chainring gear model LD-2
http://www.ts-export.com/_mb/bbs02_31de ... GP0409.JPG - notice the orange o-ring on the pinion gear
http://www.ts-export.com/_mb/bbs02_31de ... GP0405.JPG - my original crank shaft, notice 2 grooves for 2 o-rings
http://www.ts-export.com/_mb/bbs02_31de ... GP0404.JPG - idem, one black o-ring (severed), one orange-oring (shredded)
http://www.ts-export.com/_mb/bbs02_31de ... GP0403.JPG - view of the clutch for the LD-2 chainring gear
http://www.ts-export.com/_mb/bbs02_31de ... GP0397.JPG - another view of my LD-2 chainring gear before disassembly
http://www.ts-export.com/_mb/bbs02_31de ... GP0391.JPG - X-2 nylon gear
http://www.ts-export.com/_mb/bbs02_31de ... GP0389.JPG - another view of the model 3 pinion gear

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Re: Bafang BBSxx - fault finding and fixes

Post by tomjasz » Feb 01, 2017 11:52 am

heathcliff wrote:Hi guys,

Newbie here.

Goal: order spare parts.

Serial number is 1604015447.
There was a significant change again on the 02 around the time yours was purchased. Since no one has shared, stubborn and unhelpful move, serial numbers relating to changes...it's difficult to sort. Which controller version? There was much confusion when the change happened. Doug at California eBike and Matt at empowered cycle, repair motors. I suspect Doug has a better parts chain since he works with several suppliers. AND is USA support for EM3ev. Bafang, from the outside looking in, doesn't seem to have a very good replacements parts chain. No one has yet published something as simple as a parts breakdown of the versions. Of ANY version. A very frustrating fail. One star, 1 out of 10, a rotten tomato for parts and documentation. One source gets it right with three versions. Kiefer made that claim a couple of years ago but was deluded and it was a fantasy claim, until late last year.

Where it me, I'd send photos to Doug and have him source the parts. BTW check out the new 100mm 01 and 02 kit. Much easier to converts and can be epoxied or a simple 1 second weld job.
It would be helpful to all if you posted all the correct parts once sorted.
Thanks Justin_le we're here thanks to you. All the best to the mods for their tireless work keeping it on an even keel.

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Re: Bafang BBSxx - fault finding and fixes

Post by heathcliff » Feb 02, 2017 9:31 am

Which controller version? There was much confusion when the change happened.
Hard to tell for me. I have a few photos though. Hope it helps.

http://www.ts-export.com/_mb/bbs02_31de ... GP0377.JPG
http://www.ts-export.com/_mb/bbs02_31de ... GP0419.JPG

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