2005 Jamis Dakar Bafang BBS-02 (Abandonded)

skyungjae

10 kW
Joined
Nov 30, 2012
Messages
832
Location
Southern California
I've had quite the journey with my previous 2005 Kona Stink-E, but I went down that modification path which caused more problems than I'd want to deal with. For more details on that, you can click on that link in my signature following this post.

View attachment 11The Stink-E in its prime. :)

This bike was my primary commuter, and I put about ~2000+ miles on it during the year and a half I had it. The need for 7" of travel wasn't there anymore, and I was fond of the idea of mounting a battery in the actual frame triangle.

Anyhow, upon dismantle of my Stink-E, I began searching for full suspension bikes that could accommodate an OEM style frame mount battery. I briefly picked up a 2007 Novara Float which turned out to be a small (listed as a Medium by the seller, gifted it to my sister), an 03 Jamis Dakar off eBay which was missing half of its main pivot bushing (listed as good condition, returned), and finally this large '05 Jamis Dakar (would've preferred a medium, but battery fitment was my priority).

View attachment 10
Upon purchasing this bike, I installed a shorter stem, KS Exaform 861 suspension dropper post, flat pedals w/ replaceable pins, Hayes Prime sport hydraulic brakes and 203mm rotors.

After picking up the bike, I wanted to try a more plug and play style kit. Something I wouldn't lose days on tinkering with and more time riding. The BBS-02 seemed to fit the description. I ended up ordering a battery and kit from BMS Battery on September 19th. Almost 2 months, a PayPal dispute, and paying more for shipping, my kit and battery were delivered this past weekend.

It's difficult to really comment about BMS Battery's service, but I think the best way to describe ordering from them is like rolling dice. If you roll a 7 or higher, you'll probably get your stuff in a timely manner with everything correct. Roll any lower, you'll run into problems.

Well, I spent the weekend putting the bike together. I didn't have enough time to actually test ride it, so my ride to work was its maiden voyage.

trainstation.jpg
At the train station. :wink:

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I didn't like how the display mounted on the bars. Getting the occasional flat, it's nice being able to flip the bike and service it. The display on the bars would get crushed or would need to be loosened and twisted out of the way, so I decided to make my own mount with some plexiglass I had left over from making the side panels on the Stink-E. All I had is a small Dremel (rotary tool), so it took some time to make the mounting plate for the stem.

7.jpg
It also seems like Bafang has updated their outer lock ring to conceal the inner lock ring. It uses the external bearing bottom bracket tool. It's definitely a nice little touch they shouldl've done from the get go.

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My friend had one of these chain retention things lying around from his Kona Howler e-bike build, so I decided to use it on my bike. The chain that came on the bike was too short, so it would drop the chain on the largest rear cog. This plus a longer chain is doing a decent job keeping the chain on. I'll see how it can handle stairs and some climbing later today.

9.jpg
All in all, this bike is pretty much exactly what I expected it to be. I don't intend on tinkering with this bike much, but I've said that plenty of times with my Stink-E project. :lol:

As for my initial impressions, it's very nice not having to backpack a battery and plug in every time I want to ride. This bike feels lighter than the Stink-E even with the frame mount battery. It definitely feels more like a bicycle too since you can just hop on and start riding. The Stink-E had a more underpowered dirt bike feel.

Going from a throttle only e-bike to one with PAS is also a new experience. I hope I get used to it. :? The power kicking in while pedaling, even under assist level 1, is a bit surprising. Shifting on assist isn't too bad so long as you apply the same principals to shifting as you do on a a regular bike. I had thought about wiring up a motor kill button I'd use as a clutch for shifting, but it doesn't seem necessary at the moment. I can always quickly bring it down to Assist Level 0 if need be with a thumb press or two. This is why I went with the 961 display. I like having the thumb accessible power adjustment.

As for the programing, I know the programming varies per distributor, and the amount of thumb throttle corresponds with the amount of assist. I would've preferred having access to max throttle power at any assist level, including 0. I understand Lectric Cycles programing includes this. Hopefully I can live with this and not dabble in re-programming the controller. I don't want to go down that road again. :lol:

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I may get some black PVC piping to clean up the bundle of wires; however, I'm pretty lazy, so I think the bike will probably stay the way it is for a while. :lol:
 
How do you like the ride from the Dakar?
I was looking at a few on Kijiji, but every one that came up was damaged, or repaired - all at the same break on the rotor-side drop-out welds. I saw around a dozen ads this summer...there were at least 3 separate bikes that cycled.

I hope you don't run into any problems.
 
r3volved said:
How do you like the ride from the Dakar?
I was looking at a few on Kijiji, but every one that came up was damaged, or repaired - all at the same break on the rotor-side drop-out welds. I saw around a dozen ads this summer...there were at least 3 separate bikes that cycled.

I hope you don't run into any problems.

It definitely feels more "bicycle" than my GNG Stink-E which is what I was going for. Since it is an XC platform, I'm not used to being so bent forward. Riding also "feels" faster too since I'm not on 2.5" wide knobby DH tires.

My regular pedal bike is a DH rig I've set up to ride like an AM bike. It's pretty easy to bunny hop, and I will likely ride it unpowered on short trips as I did with my previous build.

I've heard of issues with weak swing arms on some Dakars, but I wasn't too worried since I'm not running a hub motor.

I do plan on doing some torture testing, and I was initially worried about the square taper spindle failing on the motor. I guess you've given me something else to worry about. :lol:
 
0utrider said:
Awesome build! I'm glad you finally got the goods. That bottle cage battery looks a hell of a lot more convenient than the monster that I have to carry on the wally bike.
Post some videos!

Thanks. I'm very thankful that I didn't have to send anything back.

Having owned an WalGoose XR-Pro 29er, I wish that frame were available in large. I think that extra 2" on the seat tube between the top tube and downtube would be enough to get that battery to fit.

http://bigboxbikes.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=499&p=31927#p31927
 
skyungjae said:
0utrider said:
Awesome build! I'm glad you finally got the goods. That bottle cage battery looks a hell of a lot more convenient than the monster that I have to carry on the wally bike.
Post some videos!

Thanks. I'm very thankful that I didn't have to send anything back.

Having owned an WalGoose XR-Pro 29er, I wish that frame were available in large. I think that extra 2" on the seat tube between the top tube and downtube would be enough to get that battery to fit.

http://bigboxbikes.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=499&p=31927#p31927

Yup, I'm not fitting anything in that triangle unless I come up with a modified assembly of the cells with a distributed scheme. Some on the top tube, some on the seat post tube and some on the down tube.
 
I decided to do my trail test ride after work yesterday, and I learned a few things.

1. PAS sucks for technical slow climbing
2. You gotta have on demand throttle on PAS 0 setting for technical climbing (roots, ruts, etc)
3. [strike]BBS-XX square taper spindle can take a 3~4 foot drop to a flat (only did it once) :lol:[/strike] I was wrong... :cry:

bbs02test.jpg

http://www.strava.com/activities/220431879

Since this was my first trail ride with this thing, I had my buddy follow on this bike:
GNG1.jpg

GNG 1.1 w/ Cyclone ISIS Chainring/Crankset.

It was only his second time riding the GNG set up, but he was riding circles around me. :cry:

The half twist throttle on that bike, no PAS, a 32T small ring, and a beefy ISIS spindle makes that bike way better suited for off road shenanigans. :lol:

Well, the black 2003 Stink-E was purpose built to pound trails into submission while my Dakar was made to get me to and from work.

Since the thumb throttle proved completely useless, I decided to ditch it today:
1236174_10204663445533274_5781450973911745711_n.jpg


It's definitely a much cleaner. I've also changed my PAS settings to only have two modes instead of three. Instead of the default (0, 1, 2, 3), which is like off, low, medium, & high. It's now (0, 1, 2), which is like off, slow, & GO!. :twisted:

Aside from two chain drops yesterday & the need to tune my derailleur better, I'm pretty happy with this bike the way it is right now.

The lack of a Cycle Analyst and not knowing how many Ah I've used will also take some getting used to. I'm sure I was pretty close to depleting my battery after my commute + trail ride (~20 miles) as the battery life icon went to 1/4 under load. On my old Stink-E, I only applied throttle when I needed it and could minutely adjust it all the time, so it was more efficient in that respect.

For people who are interested in the BBS-02 and plan to ride technical climbs, make sure the vendor you purchase it from allows/programs full on-demand throttle at any level assist including 0.

The bike is likely going to stay exactly the way it is right now (without a throttle), but I know an easy way to fix my off road woes is simply a reprogramming the controller. A half-twist throttle from Lectric would also be kinda nice. :wink:
 
skyungjae said:
3. [strike]BBS-XX square taper spindle can take a 3~4 foot drop to a flat (only did it once) :lol:[/strike] I was wrong... :cry:

On my way back from my office to the train station, I rode the bike unpowered. I noticed the left crank arm felt a bit weird when I put a lot of torque down. I knew this was a bad sign.

On my way home, the crank arm became loose, so I torqued it down with the tool kit but it would get loose a minute later (having bent spindles before, this all felt too familiar). :cry:

Anyhow, upon arriving at home, I took the left crank arm off, and spun the drive side. The spindle wasn't spinning centered, but it wasn't super bad like the GNG one that spun like a piece of flopped over pottery. :lol:

community-pottery-class-ghost-scene.jpg


Well, out came the Loctite, and on went the crank arms. This morning I did a bit more unpowered riding, and I can still feel it. It's not unrideable since I notice it a bit less with the assist on. I just hope it doesn't bring about issues with my knee later. :x

For illustration purposes only:
1899940_10204669821812677_2965417430812870263_n.jpg

I'm pretty sure this little wall drop was the culprit in during my test ride. The landing felt great that night as both wheels hit the ground nearly simultaneously.

I've done this many times before with square taper BBs on regular bikes without fail, but China quality, similar to their customer service, is like rolling dice.

:idea: I think it's safe to say that if you're interested in this kit and part of the joy you get from riding is from jumps, drops, etc..., this is likely not the kit for you. However, it should do fine for general trail riding like fire roads, smooth single track, tiny curb like jumps, and even drops to transitions.

Well, let's see where things go. I was thinking about wiring up a manual kill button for the PAS for up shifting, but it seems less necessary the more I ride. I'll keep things as is unless more problems occur. If that's the case, I may end up going back to a GNG belt drive & Cyclone ISIS BB. Though crude and certainly more noisy, it's simply bomb proof at factory power levels. Even though my e-bike builds were built with commuting in mind, it gives me peace of mind knowing they can take my pathetic level of riding. 8)
 
Well, let's see where things go. I was thinking about wiring up a manual kill button for the PAS for up shifting, but it seems less necessary the more I ride. I'll keep things as is unless more problems occur. If that's the case, I may end up going back to a GNG belt drive & Cyclone ISIS BB. Though crude and certainly more noisy,

Your experience is similar to many i have seen on here the BBS02 is no match for the high power kits such as the GNG and is made very flimsy regarding the cranks. But its interesting you would go back to GNG/LR with all the problems it had ?

Some other people had similar experience to you with GNG and BBS02 and upgraded to the AFT as it has the high power and the reliability which neither of these two kits have, they have one or the other.

Re: Let's hear it from the Mid-Drive Kit Owners !
Postby wormsman » Wed May 21, 2014 4:28 pm

I own two systems bbs02 750w on a santa cruz heckler bike and a chain driven GNG 450w on a kona stinky bike. I prefer the bbso2 for flater terain and lower maintenance VS the GNG for extreme climbing ability and downhill action and I also love the low temperatures of the GNG.My next build will be a aft 1680w extreme kit they look AWESOME light and powerful the best of both worlds ideal! and of course mounted to a giant glory down hill bike super plush suspension and superb brakes.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=60019
 
Gab said:
Well, let's see where things go. I was thinking about wiring up a manual kill button for the PAS for up shifting, but it seems less necessary the more I ride. I'll keep things as is unless more problems occur. If that's the case, I may end up going back to a GNG belt drive & Cyclone ISIS BB. Though crude and certainly more noisy,

Your experience is similar to many i have seen on here the BBS02 is no match for the high power kits such as the GNG and is made very flimsy regarding the cranks. But its interesting you would go back to GNG/LR with all the problems it had ?

Some other people had similar experience to you with GNG and BBS02 and upgraded to the AFT as it has the high power and the reliability which neither of these two kits have, they have one or the other.

Re: Let's hear it from the Mid-Drive Kit Owners !
Postby wormsman » Wed May 21, 2014 4:28 pm

I own two systems bbs02 750w on a santa cruz heckler bike and a chain driven GNG 450w on a kona stinky bike. I prefer the bbso2 for flater terain and lower maintenance VS the GNG for extreme climbing ability and downhill action and I also love the low temperatures of the GNG.My next build will be a aft 1680w extreme kit they look AWESOME light and powerful the best of both worlds ideal! and of course mounted to a giant glory down hill bike super plush suspension and superb brakes.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=60019

If I go back to the GNG set up, I don't plan on going with the LR kit. LR's kit seems great for someone who doesn't mind wrenching and is going for a lot of power. At this point, I just want something that works since I use the bike to commute as well. The stock GNG 1.0 with Cyclone ISIS BB just worked great for me, and the people I know who are using the 1.1 for freeriding aren't having issues with it either. :twisted:

Next time, I'd go GNG 1.1 belt drive kit w/ Cyclone ISIS BB. It's cheap, simple, and reliable. I was able to get 700 miles out of my first belt, and my third belt was on its way to reach similar mileage. I got upgradeitis and lost all reliability the more I tinkered with it. I won't make the same mistake again. :wink:

It also helps that a handful of people I know who ordered haven't installed their kits yet, so I may be able to get one for cheap and not have to wait on shipping. :lol:
 
Well, the high strength Loctite didn't hold, and my crank arm wobbled loose a few times on my trip home. :x

Also, despite the little jump stop, my chain still drops when things get a bit bumpy or the two times I've bombed down the stairs leaving work (probably what broke the Loctite).

This time I did a more thorough cleaning of the threads, spindle, and inside of the crank arm. Hopefully it doesn't wobble loose tomorrow.

As for the chain drop, I decided to make little side plates to the jump stop:
16720_10204673479144108_3543502984946410509_n.jpg

It really looked much better in my mind. :oops:

If my crank arm manages to stay put and the chain decides it wants to stay on, then I'll be satisfied. :lol:
 
Get a new crankarm.

I grease the thread, the square and where the screw touches the Crankarm. This way, i can pull the crankarm hard onto the square. That might prevent it from comming loose as the area, where the crankarm is touching the square is bigger and there is more pressure on it.

After you thightend it, take off the screw and have a look how big the gab between the end of the square and the area where the scew touches the crank is. Then you know, if you could pull the crank even more fare on the sqare.

I never had lose cranks with grease on everything instead of Loctite.

P.s. If you bend over your bike(standing on the ground), get the crank and a hex-wrench in 180deg position to each other and throw your whole body weight on both, you can better tighten up the Screw.
 
--freeride-- said:
Get a new crankarm.

I grease the thread, the square and where the screw touches the Crankarm. This way, i can pull the crankarm hard onto the square. That might prevent it from comming loose as the area, where the crankarm is touching the square is bigger and there is more pressure on it.

After you thightend it, take off the screw and have a look how big the gab between the end of the square and the area where the scew touches the crank is. Then you know, if you could pull the crank even more fare on the sqare.

I never had lose cranks with grease on everything instead of Loctite.

P.s. If you bend over your bike(standing on the ground), get the crank and a hex-wrench in 180deg position to each other and throw your whole body weight on both, you can better tighten up the Screw.

I shall take that into consideration. I did put a good amount of torque on the bolt, so if it fails on my way home from work today you know what I'll be doing tonight. :lol:
 
If the crank is thightend pretty hard, I would expekt a broken square axle or bend cranks to be a possible failure. A broken square axle is dangerous, so don't push it to hard... no flat drops or big jumps whithout landing area...
 
--freeride-- said:
If the crank is thightend pretty hard, I would expekt a broken square axle or bend cranks to be a possible failure. A broken square axle is dangerous, so don't push it to hard... no flat drops or big jumps whithout landing area...

Last night leaving for work, the crank didn't come loose bombing down the stairs. Unfortunately, the motor assembly started rotating downward, so I had to break the Loctite anyway to fix things. Anyhow, this time I downloaded the instruction manual (which I did not believe existed), and magically I had torque specs for everything. I also learned that the mounting plate was on backwards. Teeth are supposed to be toward the bottom bracket shell. I'm pretty sure that's why the motor started rotating downward. :oops:

Well, this time I opted to use Vibratite instead of Loctite mainly due to wanting to ride immediately instead of waiting a day for things to cure.

Then off to testing...

jamistest2.jpg

http://www.strava.com/activities/221480962
This time, I was like... F*ck it... I'm gonna ride this piece of shit as hard as I can and hit the roughest, bumpiest parts of the trail. Surprisingly, even with 4 chain drops, I was faster than the previous test. I also did the wall drop again, and everything seems to be holding.

California E-Bike did get in touch with me about replacement BB spindles for the BBS-02, but they only have OEM ones. I was hoping they'd have upgraded strength ones like they use in their 100mm BB kit:
http://california-ebike.com/product/bafang-fatbike-mid-drive-bbs-02-ebike-conversion-kit/

I may order one if I decide to sell this kit, but after last night's test I'm pretty sure I'll be keeping this thing. I ride down stairs daily, so if motor assembly starts rotating downward again, despite correctly mounting the plate and torque, I may go back to GNG/Cyclone.

To address the chain drop, I ordered an Origin8 chain guide.
mXoieh7Arf4ptIxaic1gQ8Q.jpg


The one I made sucks and looks like ass, so this should be a nice touch aesthetically and functionally. The one I made also didn't stop the chain from dropping on the stair test.
IMG_20130308_064148.jpg


I'm still debating on a kill switch to use for quicker up shifts, but we'll see how things go. :twisted:
 
MIne should come in today. :D

Though I currently have a 9 speed drivetrain, I'm tempted to go to an 8 speed. Shifting on those just seem more solid as well as easier to tune. The only thing stopping me is that the XT derailleur I have right now goes to lower gears when tension is released, so when I trigger the shifter it goes to a larger rear cog. I like that for this particular kit. :)
 
k90211lee said:
Just curious, what is the range on your frame mount battery?


K

I don't have a CA or watt meter on this bike, so I don't know exactly how many Ah I'm consuming while riding. I also haven't had the bike long enough to know how far I can go per charge depending on my style of riding/terrain. :?

I'll report in a bit later. I still have a 20Ah battery I'd run out of a CamelBak. I may wire up an auxiliary battery plug on my handle bar and use it to triple my range (not that I need to). :lol:
 
Range -

I have a 12.5 Ah pack and can squeeze just under 40 miles out of it.

Mostly setting 2-3, with few max PAS shenanigans

commuting on pavement and about 30% dirt roads...

no throttle hooked up either...

Len
 
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