Bafang BBSHD, 1000W, 68mm-120mm BB

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WoodlandHills
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Re: Bafang BBS-HD, 1000W, 68mm-120mm BB

Post by WoodlandHills » Nov 26, 2015 12:05 am

LOL, that's a good question! Eric asked me the same question the other day and I was unable to answer. I am waiting for him to send me some more XT90 sparkless connectors to wire up a 150a wattmeter to find out. I have a programming cable, but this is a Mac house with no PCs......... I guess I could wheel the bike into the office and run a windows emulator on the Mac if it's set to 25a.
I got an early pre-order in for my chainwheel so I am supposed to be in the first group of 20 to be sent out in a few more days. I'll report back when it arrives. Meanwhile I have been riding nearly every day: 15 miles today in the hills and more tomorrow. I just put new tires on the bike and they really grip!

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Re: Bafang BBS-HD, 1000W, 68mm-120mm BB

Post by MrZo » Nov 26, 2015 2:41 am

I rode mine yesterday for the first time.
I did change the wheel size and added the 30 amps before I went for the first ride. I changed some other settings as well.
This thing climbs and climbs and I was doing it on my fastest gear and it did not even get warm.

The throttle is not smooth so I will set the settings back to the Luna settings and keep playing with it.
Also yes the chain line looks good and I had no issues with the chain. Program cable also is almost plug and play on windows 10

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Re: Bafang BBS-HD, 1000W, 68mm-120mm BB

Post by MrZo » Nov 27, 2015 9:13 am

Well finished programming the controller and smoothed out the throttle.
Doesn't want to wheelie all the time now but it should be easier on the drive train. I heard a clank every time I touched the throttle with my previous settings.
Top speed with no pedaling on flats is 33mph on a 7speed 650c mountain bike and weight is 53 lbs since I used a 30 pound frame.
If I pedal I can hit 40 but I would like to hit 40 with no pedaling at all.

Hills are nothing, I took it to the largest hills in my town and it sails up them and the motor doesn't even get warm.
In the woods the issue is traction and hitting the motor on rocks or logs. The wires are exposed on the bottom and a hard knock may fray them.

I don't see the need on getting a smaller chain ring for my needs. I found no hills that I cant cruise up at 20mph or heat the motor, will wait until 46-48-52 teeth are available on lunacycles and go bigger.
Would be really great to this thing could be unlocked to run 40amps through it.

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Re: Bafang BBS-HD, 1000W, 68mm-120mm BB

Post by SimiGuy » Nov 28, 2015 6:12 pm

Been following this thread and I'm thinking of getting the BBSHD motor for my custom built cargo bicycle. My bike will probably weigh close to 80 lbs empty. Add to that my weight of 220lbs and another 50 lbs of cargo and I'm at a gross weight of 350 lbs. I live on a decent hill mostly 10% grade but it has a steep section that is close to 20% grade -according to the numbers from Google Earth. I want to be able to lug my groceries (beer) up the hill without it being really unpleasant as it is now on my regular mountain bike. Also I'd like to commute to work with this bike and again , need to go up this hill everyday.... I'm not looking to power up the hill on the motor alone and am willing to put in a bit of work pedaling - just don't want to get totally tired out and sweaty as one would get without an e-assit.
The other issue I have after reading the forums, is that there really isn't an internally geared hub that can handle the torque from the BBSHD - or even the BBS02 750W (was originally going to use a Nuvinci 360 or 380). I hate the idea of a derailleur set up... do you guys think I could get away with a single speed set up on this type of bike? I'm not looking for a fast bike on the flats - happy to max out around 20 MPH. I was thinking that I would select a gear ratio that allows me to still pedal at a fast but tolerable cadence at around 20 MPH but then use the motor's power to help me get going from a stop and also up the hills - almost like using the motor as my granny gear. I'm trying to keep this bike really simple to use so that my wife / friends can use it and I don't want to have to baby the parts and monitor temperatures etc... I originally was going to use the BBS02, 750W but from reading this thread, it seems like I would have to baby that motor and worry about overheating. I hate to spend the extra money on the 1000W Bafang but if it keeps the whole bike simpler and more robust then I'm willing to go for it - especially now that Luna Cycle has the motor on sale for $719....

Here are a couple of pics of the bike.

Thanks for your opinions!
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WoodlandHills
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Re: Bafang BBS-HD, 1000W, 68mm-120mm BB

Post by WoodlandHills » Nov 29, 2015 12:42 am

A Nuvinci 171 will take 100Nm all day long...... They are much stronger(heavier!) than the 3xx series of IGH and are well suited to a cargo bike. Probably a good match with the BBSHD...

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Re: Bafang BBS-HD, 1000W, 68mm-120mm BB

Post by MrZo » Nov 29, 2015 4:43 am

Take a look at this kit its cheaper and your weights won't be an issue.
I almost want to upgrade to this

http://lunacycle.com/black-friday/cyclo ... planetary/

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Re: Bafang BBS-HD, 1000W, 68mm-120mm BB

Post by SimiGuy » Nov 29, 2015 10:12 am

Yeah, I saw the Cyclone yesterday on their Black Friday list and it looks very tempting. I've never done an e-bike before and the Cyclone looks a bit more scary in terms of not being a plug & play unit like the Bafang. Guess I'll have to hack on a Cycle Analyst dashboard or similar? Also a bit worried how much noise the Cyclone makes compared to the Bafang (would like this thing as stealthy as possible). Even so, the sale price is so low for the Cyclone that I'm strongly leaning in that direction as of now (being on a budget and all that). Also, since I'm custom making the bike frame I can custom attach the Cyclone properly - seems like the attachment and bracketry has been the major negative on this thing...

On the Nuvinci subject - I tried looking for the 171 model but can't find one for sale anywhere since it is a discontinued model...

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Re: Bafang BBS-HD, 1000W, 68mm-120mm BB

Post by WoodlandHills » Nov 29, 2015 12:31 pm

Keep checking eBay, I got mine for $150 including shipping within the U.S. to CA. They turn up once in a while, if you can afford it, put a 330/380 on and run it until it dies while looking for a 171. Heck, you may not kill the 380 if you are easy on shock loading via the throttle. Smooth application of power goes a long way towards making any transmission last longer.


I would try to listen to both systems at speed before you decide unless you are certain the BBSHD is too small. I have a BBSHD and it is dead silent: the noise of the fat tires on dirt is enough to completely drown out the soft whine from the motor and gear train. If being stealthy is of any interest, the Bafang has a big leg up over the Cyclone.

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Re: Bafang BBS-HD, 1000W, 68mm-120mm BB

Post by SimiGuy » Nov 29, 2015 2:59 pm

I found this on Cyclone's Taiwanese site:

http://www.cyclone-tw.com/order-parts.htm

Haven't contacted them yet but wondering if this is a real Nuvinci - never heard of a N170B....
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Re: Bafang BBS-HD, 1000W, 68mm-120mm BB

Post by MrZo » Nov 30, 2015 6:53 am

WoodlandHills wrote: I would try to listen to both systems at speed before you decide unless you are certain the BBSHD is too small. I have a BBSHD and it is dead silent: the noise of the fat tires on dirt is enough to completely drown out the soft whine from the motor and gear train. If being stealthy is of any interest, the Bafang has a big leg up over the Cyclone.

The BBSHD is completely silent as said above.
With wind/tire noise nobody will know its an electric motor doing the work.

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Re: Bafang BBS-HD, 1000W, 68mm-120mm BB

Post by sather » Dec 05, 2015 9:40 pm

My install of the BBSHD did not go as smoothly as Dogboy1200's install. I have previously installed a BBS02 (68mm) and a Cal-Ebikes BBS02 100mm conversion. Both installs went smoothly. The problem encountered with the BBSHD 100 mm install, is that fat bikes must have their chainstays get wide very quickly, in order to accommodate the 4.5 inch plus wide tires. With MOST 100mm bikes, the BBSHD's new thicker housing will not install flush against the bottom bracket with or without the chainring installed. This requires adding spacer rings (which are not supplied by Bafang) on the drive side, which makes the chainline much worse than the old BBS02. Also, adding spacers reduces the available threads to mount the motor at the fixing plate (left) side. In addition, you probably will have to buy a left crank arm with more offset to clear the left chainstay because you installed spacers on the drive side. You wonder if Bafang even looked at a fat bike when they designed the BBSHD 100mm or just ripped off California Ebike's design and made it more robust. But the jury is still out on how robust the HD is. According to Karl at Electric-Fatbike.com, Bafang is still using the same BBS02 plastic gear in the HD. This plastic gear has failed for me and many others in the BBS02. The higher power of the HD can only cause the plastic gear to fail more often.

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Re: Bafang BBS-HD, 1000W, 68mm-120mm BB

Post by amberwolf » Dec 06, 2015 5:25 am

SimiGuy wrote:Haven't contacted them yet but wondering if this is a real Nuvinci - never heard of a N170B....
AFAICT, either it's a typo, or it's the original version from like 8+ years ago....

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Re: Bafang BBS-HD, 1000W, 68mm-120mm BB

Post by WoodlandHills » Dec 06, 2015 10:56 am

None of this should be a surprise: Karl covers it all in detail with pictures...... Did you gear fail after you added grease to the drive?

http://electric-fatbike.com/2015/11/22/ ... the-bbs02/

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Re: Bafang BBS-HD, 1000W, 68mm-120mm BB

Post by Dogboy1200 » Dec 06, 2015 11:29 am

Looks like many of the plastic gear failures were as a result of the gear peanut buttering. Plastic can't take heat, so maybe Bafang felt that with the lower temps of the HD the gear may last longer than in the 02 even with it passing more torque. That's what I was betting on when I went with the HD. I guess we'll see how it plays out. I won't really be putting any miles on it till after the holidays so it may be some time till I find out.
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Re: Bafang BBS-HD, 1000W, 68mm-120mm BB

Post by sather » Dec 06, 2015 1:05 pm

My BBS02 had never been opened and the controller had stock EM3ev settings. Doug at Cal-Ebike did the repair under warranty and said he had seen OTHER nylon gear failures. My nylon gear had stripped teeth and was white and not black. Karl's theory that black grease softens the nylon came from one persons opinion on the internet. I don't know why it was black, perhaps a bad seal. BTW: All BBS02s come from the factory with black axle grease on the big metal gear wheel and metal pinion gear.

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Re: Bafang BBS-HD, 1000W, 68mm-120mm BB

Post by waynebergman » Dec 06, 2015 6:49 pm

Is a pre charge needed on a 52volt pack. My Dolphin pack from Luna has a power switch on it and also there is a power button on the Bafang dashboard. I am thinking I don't need a pre charge but I ask here to make sure? I will have a second battery that may be in my back pack for some circumstances so I will be plugging and un plugging the Andersons more than the average set up that rarely would be unplugged. I am assuming my power buttons will be suffice to control sparking?

Second question I have, does anyone have a link for downloading a PDF file containing this Bafang HD manual?

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Re: Bafang BBS-HD, 1000W, 68mm-120mm BB

Post by WoodlandHills » Dec 06, 2015 7:33 pm

If you use the new sparkless XT90 connectors you won't have to worry about an on-off button.

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Re: Bafang BBS-HD, 1000W, 68mm-120mm BB

Post by waynebergman » Dec 06, 2015 9:15 pm

Yes thanks WoodlandHills, but I am wondering if I need the xt90's? I am all set up with Andersons right now and fine with that, but I am just not sure if the power buttons serve as an effective pre charge when running the 14s battery packs?

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Re: Bafang BBS-HD, 1000W, 68mm-120mm BB

Post by WoodlandHills » Dec 06, 2015 9:32 pm

As long as your battery pack or bike has a power switch it does not matter what kind of plug you use, as long as it can carry the load. The battery I got came from Luna and it already had the sparkless connector on the power plug. Since I don't have a power switch (the button on the handlebar doesn't count) it's nice not to have it snap at me whenever I take off the battery. They aren't much more in price than the regular type either.

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Re: Bafang BBS-HD, 1000W, 68mm-120mm BB

Post by lluviaperro » Dec 09, 2015 1:13 pm

Just got my new BBS-HD and I'm running in to a problem. Initially turning on the unit the battery flashes empty, though voltage from a 10S lipo is 40V. The display works otherwise, the PAS functions and the speed sensor lights up and displays the speed. Upon throttle however, after 15 seconds or so it throws error 21, which seems to be a speed sensor fault according to the C965 display manual. Any thoughts?

Thanks, Kory

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Re: Bafang BBS-HD, 1000W, 68mm-120mm BB

Post by Chalz » Dec 09, 2015 1:38 pm

The BBS-HD is designed for 48V. 40V is less than the cut-off voltage for a 48V system. I believe the cutt-off voltage is 41V, which is set to save your batteries from damage.

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Re: Bafang BBS-HD, 1000W, 68mm-120mm BB

Post by tomjasz » Dec 09, 2015 2:34 pm

lluviaperro wrote:Just got my new BBS-HD and I'm running in to a problem. Initially turning on the unit the battery flashes empty, though voltage from a 10S lipo is 40V. The display works otherwise, the PAS functions and the speed sensor lights up and displays the speed. Upon throttle however, after 15 seconds or so it throws error 21, which seems to be a speed sensor fault according to the C965 display manual. Any thoughts?

Thanks, Kory
Run at least 13s, 14s would be better.
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Re: Bafang BBS-HD, 1000W, 68mm-120mm BB

Post by SlowCo » Dec 09, 2015 2:37 pm

If i'm correct 10s lipo is 36V nominal and the BBS-HD is for 48V nominal. So you'll need 12s to 13s LiPo for this middrive. It might even be okay to go to 14s LiPo.

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Re: Bafang BBS-HD, 1000W, 68mm-120mm BB

Post by lluviaperro » Dec 09, 2015 3:25 pm

Thanks for the feedback. Eric from Luna Cycle got back to me and said the same thing, that it is an under voltage problem.

Is it possible to run 15s? I've been searching on line for the upper voltage limit without success. It doesn't appear to programmable either.

Unfortunately I have some 5s lipos that would be convenient to use, but that limits me to either 37v or 55.5V nominal.

edit- upper voltage limit is 60V so if I undercharge a 15s setup it may be usable, but obviously not ideal.

Thanks again, great forum.

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Re: Bafang BBS-HD, 1000W, 68mm-120mm BB

Post by ecycler » Dec 09, 2015 3:39 pm

If it is like the BBS02, there are 63v caps, so it is really pushing it, but you may be able to get away with it.
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