The Beast Mid Drive. In Beta Testing.

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
jdevo2004   100 W

100 W
Posts: 158
Joined: Apr 13 2014 8:26pm

Re: The Beast Mid Drive. 3 Beta Testers Wanted!

Post by jdevo2004 » Mar 29 2015 10:33am

speedmd wrote:What is your def of hill climbing?
Image
That was what I was hoping for. LOL, the reality is that in the end, you are still on a bicycle and need to stay within the limitations of the bicycle. Bicycles can do pretty amazing things though.

I am thinking trails more like this where human power could never get you up to the top of a mountain. (unless you were some sort of athlete or something I guess)
Image

jdevo2004   100 W

100 W
Posts: 158
Joined: Apr 13 2014 8:26pm

Re: The Beast Mid Drive. 3 Beta Testers Wanted!

Post by jdevo2004 » Mar 29 2015 10:40am

cheekybloke wrote:I noticed you ran the secondary chain on both sides of the tensioner on a couple of your pics.
Have you made a boo boo?
Darren
The tensioner is meant to be used both ways but obviously being tensioned up is the ideal. The kit comes with a 68t secondary sprocket but can be used with 66 to 70t secondary sprockets if the person really wanted the tensioner to tension upwards. There has been no problems with slippage tensioning down even using the smallest 12t 219 drive sprocket.

User avatar
Thud   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2686
Joined: Aug 20 2009 6:20am
Location: West Michigan,USA

Re: The Beast Mid Drive. 3 Beta Testers Wanted!

Post by Thud » Mar 29 2015 10:54am

Glad to see you answering questions.
RE the freewheel: this is the failure point in the crank drive set- ups....if not apparent yet...it will be soon.

http://www.electricbike.com/wp-content/ ... heelBB.jpg

Look at GNG's freewheel @ you will see a bearing that would offer stabalization to the bearings in the freewheel. (If it fit the bb spindle correctly) Much more important to a single bearing freewheel like the White industries "Eno" than the dual angular contact bearings in the Dictas.

I havent had a failure of a bb driven freewheel yet, but I have changed out 2 now that have become very loose after a few hours of use. The white industry eno's were destroyed rather quickly from the mis-marige on a bbdrive.

Another question: how many rpm's are you driving the crank at?

In my experiance, anything over human cadence destroys the whole bicycling experiance....no synergy.
Thanks for the reply.
get some......

All information & advice provided by Thud are "Open Source" & free for personal use & distribution under the following agreement linked below.
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/3.0/

jdevo2004   100 W

100 W
Posts: 158
Joined: Apr 13 2014 8:26pm

Re: The Beast Mid Drive. 3 Beta Testers Wanted!

Post by jdevo2004 » Mar 29 2015 11:15am

Thud wrote:Glad to see you answering questions.
RE the freewheel: this is the failure point in the crank drive set- ups....if not apparent yet...it will be soon.

http://www.electricbike.com/wp-content/ ... heelBB.jpg

Look at GNG's freewheel @ you will see a bearing that would offer stabalization to the bearings in the freewheel. (If it fit the bb spindle correctly) Much more important to a single bearing freewheel like the White industries "Eno" than the dual angular contact bearings in the Dictas.

I havent had a failure of a bb driven freewheel yet, but I have changed out 2 now that have become very loose after a few hours of use. The white industry eno's were destroyed rather quickly from the mis-marige on a bbdrive.

Another question: how many rpm's are you driving the crank at?

In my experiance, anything over human cadence destroys the whole bicycling experiance....no synergy.
Thanks for the reply.
I never noticed that extra bearing before. Cool idea. I wanted to go with as narrow a bottom bracket as possible to prevent my crankarms from touching the ground as I made tight turns, so there is no room to add a bearing like that. I own and have tested dicta brand, white industries brand and "standard sickbikeparts" brand flanged freewheels. I liked the dicta because they where quiet and seemed pretty sturdy. I had no idea that they were dual angular contact and that white industris was single. Good thing I chose the dictas for the kit then.

The cadence obviously depends on the voltage used and gearing ratio. You can expect a cadence of 106rpm geared low with 50 volts up to 317rpm geared high with 100 volts. As I said in the description, this is not a kit meant to be pedaled.
Last edited by jdevo2004 on Mar 29 2015 11:17am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
spinningmagnets   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 11532
Joined: Dec 21 2007 10:27pm
Location: Ft Riley, NE Kansas

Re: The Beast Mid Drive. 3 Beta Testers Wanted!

Post by spinningmagnets » Mar 29 2015 11:16am

Post deleted, in light of evidence presented.

jdevo2004   100 W

100 W
Posts: 158
Joined: Apr 13 2014 8:26pm

Re: The Beast Mid Drive. 3 Beta Testers Wanted!

Post by jdevo2004 » Mar 29 2015 11:24am

Now lets not all jump to conclusions here. I have picture proof that LightningRods signed off on this project. Read from bottom to top. Mods can look into my inbox if they want.

http://i59.tinypic.com/2vwiagm.png

Image

stocaz   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 28
Joined: Nov 01 2012 4:00am

Re: The Beast Mid Drive. 3 Beta Testers Wanted!

Post by stocaz » Mar 29 2015 11:32am

as usual!
anyway, this thread is becoming absurd..
royalties..are we in a law court of justice?
that's incredible..noone has taken ideas from gng here? sure?
do we notice ONLY what we want , forgetting the rest?
incredible.

dusan   100 W

100 W
Posts: 153
Joined: Aug 31 2014 2:10pm
Location: Slovakia

Re: The Beast Mid Drive. 3 Beta Testers Wanted!

Post by dusan » Mar 29 2015 11:36am

I am thinking trails more like this where human power could never get you up to the top of a mountain. (unless you were some sort of athlete or something I guess)
Image
Don't take me wrong please, but I am riding similar tracks and with 3kW beast without PAS you will sacrifice entire battery pack at the half of track.
Also I personally don't know such crazy man, trying to ride with shaking downhill bike at 60km/h, what was probably purpose of kit wattage.

User avatar
LightningRods   10 MW

10 MW
Posts: 2191
Joined: Oct 23 2012 7:37pm
Location: Western Oregon, USA

Re: The Beast Mid Drive. 3 Beta Testers Wanted!

Post by LightningRods » Mar 29 2015 11:48am

I was hoping to stay off of this thread so as to not draw more attention to it.

James D. does not have my permission to use my intellectual property in any way. Any attempt to produce and market a product containing my intellectual property is an infringement on my rights to that property.

I agreed to supply Mr. D with parts because I made the (possibly naive) assumption that he would be bringing mostly his own creativity to the endeavor. As stated in my private correspondence that Mr. D has so considerately made public, I believe in supporting the electric bike community with essential parts that are difficult or impossible to find elsewhere. That does NOT include using my parts to complete knock offs of my designs. Blurring the line between purchasing a part to incorporate into your own designs and purchasing that part to complete a derivative and competing product is an attempt to disguise theft.

I am not going to engage in a running debate about whether I am being ripped off or not. I will leave that to the community to decide. I felt that it was important to state here clearly that Mr. D does not have my permission to use my intellectual property.

Ypedal edit : removed full last name at OP's request.
"I don’t mind that they stole my idea, I mind that they don’t have any of their own.”
-Nikola Tesla

Lightning Rods Web Site http://www.lightningrodev.com
Lightning Rods Facebook Page https://www.facebook.com/pages/Lightnin ... 4531978401

User avatar
spinningmagnets   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 11532
Joined: Dec 21 2007 10:27pm
Location: Ft Riley, NE Kansas

Re: The Beast Mid Drive. 3 Beta Testers Wanted!

Post by spinningmagnets » Mar 29 2015 11:53am

Thank you for responding. It appears there may have been some misunderstandings between the two of you, since LightningRods seems to feel your drive is too similar to his, compared to his impression of your discussions on that subject. For clarity, I have transcribed the email you supplied in your defence:
Sat Nov 29, 2014 9:37 PM
“OK, since the snow has started up in Edmonton last month, I have been working on a winter project. The project entails designing a brand new mid drive system the way I think it should be built, without any compromises (my personal opinion) on price or material. At first I was thinking this would be just for me, but after I started I began to think that other people might be interested in it as well.

I would like to say outright that the mid drive is similar to yours, but will be about 50% more expensive due to design and material choices I have made. It will have the familiar bafang/lightning rods shape, but radically different design features. What I am trying to get at here is that while most of the kit uses different parts than yours, there are 3 components that I think are key to your kit that I would like to retain in mine. Those parts are the small block motor, the 90t pulley, and the 18t pulley.

I would like to know right now before I go farther with this plan if you are willing to be a supplier of these parts for me. I would probably buy 20 pieces of each per order as needed. I have no idea if this kit will be popular but I assume it will be relatively slow sales since it does the exact same thing as your kit but at a higher cost.

I am not planning to start production until mid summer. I will build 1 prototype to start in February with the pulleys and motor I currently have, then 3 kits for outside testing in April, and then production in July 2015. I am interested in your opinion of my plan. Hopefully we can do business soon.”

User avatar
emaayan   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1450
Joined: May 11 2012 12:47am
Location: israel

Re: The Beast Mid Drive. 3 Beta Testers Wanted!

Post by emaayan » Mar 29 2015 11:57am

i was directly here by an another individual, so it's not exactly that our scour the forums, nor E-S has suddenly developed the ability to email me on my nick name mentioning.

first of all my online-persona, is my persona, which allows other folks to call me a "sniveling c*nt" freely, because i'm unable to scream, shout, berate or insult people, everyone can allow themselves to make fun or me, call me boy, emoaner, ignore me at a whim, and i can't do anything about it.

about the specs: when you say things like 3000 watts, 40 amps, then you have to specify it these are considered "peak" usages, to continuous ones just like in batteries. this is even before assembling and technical know how, if people like me see 3000 watts, they would think they could run it like that for hours without any problems. everyone seem to keep taking it for granted, it's NOT. i remember someone said something like (i think it was ypedal) "if you don't state your expectations your customers will do it for you"

about the design: i'm pretty sure i mentioned this somewhere in L-R post, but there's nothing to stop someone taking even PART of L-R's kit like the lower sheets, and design new upper sheets, or vice versa. it's a modular design, the basic concept of a reduction using a shaft still exists in all forms, with tensioner, no tensioner, etc... variations on a theme. sure it's a LOT of work to get one variation right. but i doubt you can actually patent it. it's an extensible design. i'm sure we'll see more after-after-after-market solutions when the current ones take off.
i have to say that the gng's 2015 solution to the twist is seems legit, he simply made it part of the motor casing and turned it horizontally, that makes it look a lot stronger, he's also using 219 chain for the primary reduction (i think).

about complexity: what's your target audience? if you're planning to sell just "to the guys" here at e-s, sure you can get away with almost anything, if they'll hit a snag , they'll just mod their own improvement, post it, and get on.
but .. if you want what we call in software a "next-next-next installation" then someone like me steps in, someone you'd WANT to fail on what you see as "obvious" points , who will attempt to document and establish a clear and accurate process from the moment of un-packaging till the moment of operation.
obviously i can't test it, i'd like to, but i don't do off-road riding, i just commute to work 20 miles a day, and i need something bullet-proof for that . the only way i'd be able test it is to assemble it on my trek 7700 and ingress like hell at night.

thud: actually i'm not offended from you, and you're partially right,but, would do you really want a customer to say "it was so complex for me to handle that he decided to re-fund my money" or "he had such an awesome support that he stuck by me all the way with great patience until i finally got it work" , like i said, target audience.
can you really asses someone's capabilities based on their email request? here's an example , when i first approached matt about installing his mid-drive a year ago, he "warned" me it's not exactly a bolt-on installation, but after i elaborated by experience with replacing parts of ecospeed, and re-soldering the motor's hall sensors, he said i'm more then qualified. but after he saw my participation in l-r's post, he naturally became far far less willing to sell me anything (the thing that finally put me off btw is needing a battery which can supply 150 amps for 3 seconds) . so maybe you'll refund "one of me" ,but what will happen if you'll encounter ten or more like me, , (with less patience?) who just googled "mid drive kits", if you google this term now, l-r's post will your first result. eventually you'll need a "bridge" person during development, someone who'll be able to tell you "that won't be so obvious to everyone, you should make that more clear" otherwise you'll need to create qualification exams :)

About pedaling: don't dismiss it just yet, if you're using a 128 bb, then you can now use http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/ebike-parts/t ... -128l.html or http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/ebike-parts/t ... m-128.html bb's which unlike the 136 version ARE in production, this will extend your target audience and allow you to market as both riding and transportation rigs.(and will provide better anti-cop protection :) )

About defect submission: please please please , don't use e-s platform for this, there's no hierarchy, no data mining, no order, any thread you start eventually will get too big (even without me). if you want to MANAGE your defects i strongly suggest http://www.hostedredmine.com it's a free platform for tracking bugs, anyone can register, create a project, open bugs, you can assign severity, priority, keywords, get notified on each change, query a list and so much more, and it's soooo simple to use. i'd be willing to help in that regard, just pm me. your beta testers could use it, they'll be able to share the links here on e-s.
Trek 7.7 fx, 22.5" frame, 38x700c,10 gears.
ecospeed mid drive 1300 watt engine, max speed 45 kph.
battery1: 48v 14 ah, frame mounted battery, range 40km.
battery2(spare) 52v 10ah frame mounted bag, range, 30km.

User avatar
spinningmagnets   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 11532
Joined: Dec 21 2007 10:27pm
Location: Ft Riley, NE Kansas

Re: The Beast Mid Drive. 3 Beta Testers Wanted!

Post by spinningmagnets » Mar 29 2015 12:04pm

Post deleted in the interests of neutrality.

User avatar
emaayan   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1450
Joined: May 11 2012 12:47am
Location: israel

Re: The Beast Mid Drive. 3 Beta Testers Wanted!

Post by emaayan » Mar 29 2015 12:08pm

it doesn't make sense to buy custom parts from a mid-drive kit manufacturer only to build your own competition.

unless you're samsung who supplies parts to apple :mrgreen:
Trek 7.7 fx, 22.5" frame, 38x700c,10 gears.
ecospeed mid drive 1300 watt engine, max speed 45 kph.
battery1: 48v 14 ah, frame mounted battery, range 40km.
battery2(spare) 52v 10ah frame mounted bag, range, 30km.

jdevo2004   100 W

100 W
Posts: 158
Joined: Apr 13 2014 8:26pm

Re: The Beast Mid Drive. 3 Beta Testers Wanted!

Post by jdevo2004 » Mar 29 2015 12:16pm

In my defense I will also transcribe the responses from LightningRods about my design choices when I first approached him. I am saddened to learn that he has now decided not to support my project even though I tried to be clear that this project was similar to his, let us not forget that his is similar to the GNG. I was clear about it. Funny how the tune has changed so much now that I am showing off the project.
If I proceed with production and sales of this project I will be designing my own 90t pully. It will be more aesthetically pleasing than the current one. I have no plans to sell any kits with the lightningrods 90t pullys that I currently have.

As for the competition, it is still on! Please sign up for your chance to test out this awesome kit and leave your mark on its future!

Mods I would appreciate it if all further posts regarding LightningRods negativity be deleted as it no longer pertains to this competition.
James,

My goal when I got into this business was to supply the parts that people need and can't get. I only went on to build my own kit when I realized that I had replaced 90% of the GNG trying to fix it. I'll be glad to support your efforts and sell you whatever you need.

Please don't tell me what your design plans are because I have my own ideas for moving forward and don't want to hear any ideas from you that are already in my head. Just let me know what you need and I'll hook you up.

Thanks,
Mike

Sent: Sun Nov 30, 2014 12:47 am
by jdevo2004

That is good to hear. I was worried that you would think my product would eat into your sales but I doubt that will be the case. Ebiking is really taking off and I think it is positive reinforcement to have multiple kits using the standard small block as a known reliable high power motor.
Going to be interesting to see what we both come up with as our ideal setup. If the prototype works the way I hope it will, I will be showing it off in March. See you then. ;)

James.
Sent: Sun Nov 30, 2014 1:13 am
by LightningRods

I've been a commercial artist for many years. The people at the top of almost any business are generous, helpful people who want to see others do well. There are always the jealous types who won't give anything up to anyone but they never seem to thrive like the people who network. I've had lots of help on E-S from good people like Matt Schumaker.

I'll be interested to see what you come up with. The GNG gave me a frame of reference to learn about electric bikes. Most of my previous experience was with cars and motorcycles. I'm getting to the stage now where the inherent shortcomings of the GNG layout are causing most of my problems. It's time to get outside of that box.

I agree that the e-bike thing is just starting to take off. There is plenty of room out there for both of us to do well. Best of luck with your dreaming an designing.

Mike
Last edited by jdevo2004 on Mar 29 2015 12:27pm, edited 2 times in total.

dusan   100 W

100 W
Posts: 153
Joined: Aug 31 2014 2:10pm
Location: Slovakia

Re: The Beast Mid Drive. 3 Beta Testers Wanted!

Post by dusan » Mar 29 2015 12:24pm

I am not going to engage in a running debate about whether I am being ripped off or not. I will leave that to the community to decide. I felt that it was important to state here clearly that Mr. Deveault does not have my permission to use my intellectual property.
I would agree, let's keep boys to play with LR kit and Mr. James, you are pretty far from what you were targeted.

User avatar
emaayan   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1450
Joined: May 11 2012 12:47am
Location: israel

Re: The Beast Mid Drive. 3 Beta Testers Wanted!

Post by emaayan » Mar 29 2015 12:38pm

besides why would you wanna stick with a belt anyway? GNG "stronger" version has a primary chain, even L-R equipped darren's kit with a primary chain. besides the noise what's so good about it?
Trek 7.7 fx, 22.5" frame, 38x700c,10 gears.
ecospeed mid drive 1300 watt engine, max speed 45 kph.
battery1: 48v 14 ah, frame mounted battery, range 40km.
battery2(spare) 52v 10ah frame mounted bag, range, 30km.

User avatar
speedmd   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2853
Joined: Nov 14 2012 12:16pm
Location: new england

Re: The Beast Mid Drive. 3 Beta Testers Wanted!

Post by speedmd » Mar 29 2015 12:46pm

Belt is quiet, can run a boat load of rpm's and does not need oil!

Back on topic;

Even if you use your own 90T sprocket, you are still stealing by copying the belt and tooth style - type design. You can not call it your own by putting lipstick on it. Much time money and energy goes into researching what works and what does not and making the hard choices along the way. The courts in Canada are reasonably clear on this also. Stepping in and knocking it off after all the work is done is just plain wrong. You need to rethink your design IMO and have some demonstrated original concepts to be clean about this endeavor.

User avatar
Ypedal   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 12523
Joined: Dec 27 2006 12:55pm
Location: Moncton NB, Canada
Contact:

Re: The Beast Mid Drive. 3 Beta Testers Wanted!

Post by Ypedal » Mar 29 2015 12:51pm

it's a bunch of pulleys an mounting hardware ( and yes i know there are countless complexities to it.. but still )... not much anything proprietary going on imo.. there be plenty of room for everyone to play in the sandbox.

It all started with Cyclone as far back as i can recall... we improve on past designs.. it's human nature and i see this as nothing different. .. everyone has their own idea of what makes the best mouse trap.

more building.. more riding.. less bitching = Win
ES site status page:
http://www.ypedal.com/ES/ES.htm
----------------
http://www.ypedal.com

jdevo2004   100 W

100 W
Posts: 158
Joined: Apr 13 2014 8:26pm

Re: The Beast Mid Drive. 3 Beta Testers Wanted!

Post by jdevo2004 » Mar 29 2015 12:52pm

speedmd wrote:Belt is quiet, can run a boat load of rpm's and does not need oil!

Back on topic;

Even if you use your own 90T sprocket, you are still stealing by copying the belt and tooth style - type design. You can not call it your own by putting lipstick on it. Much time money and energy goes into researching what works and what does not and making the hard choices along the way. The courts in Canada are reasonably clear on this also. Stepping in and knocking it off after all the work is done is just plain wrong. You need to rethink your design IMO and have some demonstrated original concepts to be clean about this endeavor.
The belt tooth design is not proprietary. Lots of mid drives use it.

dusan   100 W

100 W
Posts: 153
Joined: Aug 31 2014 2:10pm
Location: Slovakia

Re: The Beast Mid Drive. 3 Beta Testers Wanted!

Post by dusan » Mar 29 2015 12:54pm

Hmm, noise ? Somebody wrote here, when my chain GNG is running is like rc heli.
I would agree, but you need precise jackshaft at least and gearbox sprockets, chainlines etc proved. It's professional job.
My personal opinion, technician doesn't like managers or even businessman.
Last edited by dusan on Mar 29 2015 1:12pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
speedmd   100 MW

100 MW
Posts: 2853
Joined: Nov 14 2012 12:16pm
Location: new england

Re: The Beast Mid Drive. 3 Beta Testers Wanted!

Post by speedmd » Mar 29 2015 1:11pm

jdevo2004 wrote:
speedmd wrote:Belt is quiet, can run a boat load of rpm's and does not need oil!

Back on topic;

Even if you use your own 90T sprocket, you are still stealing by copying the belt and tooth style - type design. You can not call it your own by putting lipstick on it. Much time money and energy goes into researching what works and what does not and making the hard choices along the way. The courts in Canada are reasonably clear on this also. Stepping in and knocking it off after all the work is done is just plain wrong. You need to rethink your design IMO and have some demonstrated original concepts to be clean about this endeavor.
The belt tooth design is not proprietary. Lots of mid drives use it.
If your using the same part number, you bet it is a copy! Let the judge explain it to you. Different style / size / length, you may squeak through but it is still a sleazy knock off from the looks of it. What exactly is original?

jdevo2004   100 W

100 W
Posts: 158
Joined: Apr 13 2014 8:26pm

Re: The Beast Mid Drive. 3 Beta Testers Wanted!

Post by jdevo2004 » Mar 29 2015 1:34pm


If your using the same part number, you bet it is a copy! Let the judge explain it to you. Different style / size / length, you may squeak through but it is still a sleazy knock off from the looks of it. What exactly is original?
If I decide to sell this kit, the pulley will not be the same part number. I have never claimed the pulley I am using is my own design and have no intention of doing so. I appreciate that there are a lot of LightningRods fans on this forum but I am not doing anything wrong by building kits with a Lightningrods pulley and lending them out to people. There is nothing for the courts to decide.

stocaz   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 28
Joined: Nov 01 2012 4:00am

Re: The Beast Mid Drive. 3 Beta Testers Wanted!

Post by stocaz » Mar 29 2015 1:43pm

too late baby, future is near..
ezgif.com-resize.gif
ezgif.com-resize.gif (488.71 KiB) Viewed 3413 times

dusan   100 W

100 W
Posts: 153
Joined: Aug 31 2014 2:10pm
Location: Slovakia

Re: The Beast Mid Drive. 3 Beta Testers Wanted!

Post by dusan » Mar 29 2015 1:49pm

Do you know what you are offering and what you really have?
I am not really sure, LR kit is just another choice, "your kit" seems like to be trying promise everything at once.
And you seem to be simply seller.

Well, at least, don't offer 3kW kit as ultimate climber. It seems, you never ride such terrain.
Last edited by dusan on Mar 29 2015 2:31pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
emaayan   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1450
Joined: May 11 2012 12:47am
Location: israel

Re: The Beast Mid Drive. 3 Beta Testers Wanted!

Post by emaayan » Mar 29 2015 2:02pm

i've asked a friend of mine to give me a stronger thicker 25 roller driven chain ring then the one ecospeed gave me. i sent him the ansi standard of the chain and specified the the bcd required. the chainring is not off-shelf, one day of back and forth design, and it was done.
this is not off-the-shelf (sadly, because i just took me 6 weeks to drive the ecospeed version! this sucks!) product, does ecospeed have any intellectual property?


i use paragon sliding dropouts instead of chain tensioner of a derailleur, if my chain gets loose , i open 4 bolts and pull back the wheel, chain gets tensed again, i close the bolts. sounds familiar?

aft, ecospeed and ego, use motors with a planetary gear, freewheel in the crank and 2 stage design ,should they sue each other?

once again, while a lot hard work goes into making all of these work, calling it IP , is like http://www.theverge.com/2012/11/7/36145 ... ed-corners do we REALLY wanna go that way?
Trek 7.7 fx, 22.5" frame, 38x700c,10 gears.
ecospeed mid drive 1300 watt engine, max speed 45 kph.
battery1: 48v 14 ah, frame mounted battery, range 40km.
battery2(spare) 52v 10ah frame mounted bag, range, 30km.

Post Reply