The Beast Mid Drive. In Beta Testing.

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
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emaayan   100 kW

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Re: The Beast Mid Drive. Giving 3 Away to Beta Testers!!!

Post by emaayan » Mar 31 2015 11:10am

speedmd wrote:I think you guys should give a good look at the gear box threads! 3kw is no issue IMO. Trying to drive it through a crankset-jack, yes, a potential issue. Long as you limit the torque, the frames should have little to no issue with this level of power. Why not go motor - direct to rear wheel if you don't care about matching pedal speeds. This size /kv motor should have no issues once you work out the controller side. Would imagine the rotor would stick together well past 8000 rpm.
jdevo i think this should indicate about your selection of beta-tester's rigs themselves, meaning, between all three, there should a huge diversity to accommodate the range you're looking for , where one is free-ride/dh, the other maybe xc, and the last maybe a commuter, and at least one of them should have a rholoff or some other form IGH. otherwise if you end up testing only downhills for example you'll ignore the potential stress and interface to other frame types and components.
Trek 7.7 fx, 22.5" frame, 38x700c,10 gears.
ecospeed mid drive 1300 watt engine, max speed 45 kph.
battery1: 48v 14 ah, frame mounted battery, range 40km.
battery2(spare) 52v 10ah frame mounted bag, range, 30km.

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Re: The Beast Mid Drive. Giving 3 Away to Beta Testers!!!

Post by ions82 » Apr 01 2015 2:08am

At 3,000+ watts, the thing that would concern me most isn't the frame or mid-drive setup. It would be the chain and cassette body. Seems like 4 horsepower might be pushing it. I am looking to jump into a mid-drive for a DH bike that I have, and reliability will be paramount (because I have partial paralysis in my legs.) A blown-up cassette body isn't exactly a trailside repair, and regular chain breaks would get old in a hurry. For crazy power and wattage (and borderline insanity), I think Matt pretty much has that dialed. For efficiency and reliablity, the LR setup seems like the hot setup. Trying to merge the two (as it seems like the Beast is aiming for) might be asking for drivetrain trouble.

As for the tandem frame that I saw twisted... It didn't STAY twisted/bent. It would just flex so much under 3,000+ watts that it would drop the idler chain on occasion. One time, the team mechanic had to remove the cog from the threaded hub (a "fixed gear" wheel for the track.) When that thing finally broke loose, it sounded like a .22 going off. Most bicycle components just aren't designed to handle 3,000 watts.

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Re: The Beast Mid Drive. 3 Beta Testers Wanted!

Post by ebike11 » Apr 01 2015 2:40am

stocaz wrote:
Thud wrote:1st,
Nice job on the fabrication & finish of you product. it looks good from here.


I think competition is healty for this tiny market of e-bike stuff.


Best of luck & ignore the haters when they show up. :mrgreen:
Good comment.
the truth is: the original product is Gng by jon chan, the OTHERS are just copies, better or not, improved or not, just copies. So we all have to thank him. ( ALL)
other philosophical, intelligent, complicated reasoning is just silly
Are you sure Jon himself is the original builder/seller of the GNG?
Who knows with all the copiers in China

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emaayan   100 kW

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Re: The Beast Mid Drive. Giving 3 Away to Beta Testers!!!

Post by emaayan » Apr 01 2015 2:47am

Then just replace 'jon chan' with 'abstract or obscure engineer " and the statment still remains..:)
Trek 7.7 fx, 22.5" frame, 38x700c,10 gears.
ecospeed mid drive 1300 watt engine, max speed 45 kph.
battery1: 48v 14 ah, frame mounted battery, range 40km.
battery2(spare) 52v 10ah frame mounted bag, range, 30km.

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Re: The Beast Mid Drive. Giving 3 Away to Beta Testers!!!

Post by ebike11 » Apr 01 2015 7:46pm

OP...do you have any videos of your rides with your motor?

jdevo2004   100 W

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Re: The Beast Mid Drive. Giving 3 Away to Beta Testers!!!

Post by jdevo2004 » Apr 01 2015 8:24pm

ebike11 wrote:OP...do you have any videos of your rides with your motor?
Ill be posting a few short videos in the coming weeks. I only just got a GoPro myself! I was in Kelowna (mountainous and warmer part of Canada) in late February testing my prototype so I know it works great. Now I am back home in Edmonton and there is still snow on the ground! It is also relatively flat around here so no mountain videos coming.

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Re: The Beast Mid Drive. Giving 3 Away to Beta Testers!!!

Post by jdevo2004 » Apr 05 2015 11:27pm

Just messing around and testing my camera.


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Re: The Beast Mid Drive. Giving 3 Away to Beta Testers!!!

Post by macribs » Apr 06 2015 4:01am

Why do so many of e-bikers insist on "doing donuts on dirt"? That tells you nothing. Even the weakest motors can handle that. Standing with one foot on the ground as leverage every e-bike can do that. If you wanna show off your build pls do something that has real life values.

This nothing against you or your motor, I just had to vent as I think yours video was #100 video (or was it #1000?) of an e-bike spinning tires on dirt/gravel with one foot as leverage.

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Re: The Beast Mid Drive. Giving 3 Away to Beta Testers!!!

Post by jdevo2004 » Apr 06 2015 11:30am

Probably because it is fun as heck and not something that can be easily done without a motor. :)

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Re: The Beast Mid Drive. Giving 3 Away to Beta Testers!!!

Post by Advanced » Apr 07 2015 6:31pm

I think you will sell lots of these! ....with a few tweaks.

Your primary belt tensioner design looks good. A controller enclosure with bashguard added upfront would balance the design and help set you apart.

If you can't meet the pedalling cadence a THUN bb wont work...and could you imagine pedalling a modern ICE dirt bike! This is intended for off road, so the cycleanalyst v3 should be enough for the legal issues.
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0-50 in 6sec, 60km top speed, 200lbs w/ rider

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emaayan   100 kW

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Re: The Beast Mid Drive. Giving 3 Away to Beta Testers!!!

Post by emaayan » Apr 08 2015 2:41am

Advanced wrote:I think you will sell lots of these! ....with a few tweaks.

Your primary belt tensioner design looks good. A controller enclosure with bashguard added upfront would balance the design and help set you apart.

If you can't meet the pedalling cadence a THUN bb wont work...and could you imagine pedalling a modern ICE dirt bike! This is intended for off road, so the cycleanalyst v3 should be enough for the legal issues.
why wouldn't the thun work? you can configure and fine tunethe ca3 to omit an x percent of motor on each force you apply to the pedal?
Trek 7.7 fx, 22.5" frame, 38x700c,10 gears.
ecospeed mid drive 1300 watt engine, max speed 45 kph.
battery1: 48v 14 ah, frame mounted battery, range 40km.
battery2(spare) 52v 10ah frame mounted bag, range, 30km.

r3volved   100 kW

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Re: The Beast Mid Drive. Giving 3 Away to Beta Testers!!!

Post by r3volved » Apr 08 2015 12:44pm

If you can't meet the pedalling cadence a THUN bb wont work.
Torque sensing requires resistance

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emaayan   100 kW

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Re: The Beast Mid Drive. Giving 3 Away to Beta Testers!!!

Post by emaayan » Apr 08 2015 1:22pm

r3volved wrote:If you can't meet the pedalling cadence a THUN bb wont work.
Torque sensing requires resistance
that's the statement i don't really understand , do you think that even a smallest throttle signal would yield too much power that would later have you spinning empty?
Trek 7.7 fx, 22.5" frame, 38x700c,10 gears.
ecospeed mid drive 1300 watt engine, max speed 45 kph.
battery1: 48v 14 ah, frame mounted battery, range 40km.
battery2(spare) 52v 10ah frame mounted bag, range, 30km.

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Re: The Beast Mid Drive. Giving 3 Away to Beta Testers!!!

Post by r3volved » Apr 08 2015 5:29pm

If your chainring is moving faster than you can peddle then you can't input any power into the system. The system can't multiply torque if you can't input any.

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Re: The Beast Mid Drive. Giving 3 Away to Beta Testers!!!

Post by DaDo.Bzz » Apr 08 2015 7:42pm

Lol, battery on your back? It must be 6kg for such a powerfull motor. Lets try how long you can hold it in mountains. ;)))
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Re: The Beast Mid Drive. Giving 3 Away to Beta Testers!!!

Post by jdevo2004 » Apr 08 2015 7:59pm

DaDo.Bzz wrote:Lol, battery on your back? It must be 6kg for such a powerfull motor. Lets try how long you can hold it in mountains. ;)))
It is not difficult at all. It is quite comfortable. It is not like I am exhausting myself from pedaling up a mountain here. There is no pedaling involved. On trails having your battery in a backpack allows your bike to be more nimble which is important.

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Kepler   1 GW

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Re: The Beast Mid Drive. Giving 3 Away to Beta Testers!!!

Post by Kepler » Apr 08 2015 8:00pm

r3volved wrote:If your chainring is moving faster than you can peddle then you can't input any power into the system. The system can't multiply torque if you can't input any.
Exactly. From the outset this drive has been designed not as a pedal assist but as a high powered mid drive system with the ability to pedal it home if you run out of batteries. At least thats the way I see it. Will suit some and not others.
Last edited by Kepler on Apr 08 2015 8:13pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Beast Mid Drive. Giving 3 Away to Beta Testers!!!

Post by Kepler » Apr 08 2015 8:13pm

jdevo2004 wrote:
DaDo.Bzz wrote:Lol, battery on your back? It must be 6kg for such a powerfull motor. Lets try how long you can hold it in mountains. ;)))
It is not difficult at all. It is quite comfortable. It is not like I am exhausting myself from pedaling up a mountain here. There is no pedaling involved. On trails having your battery in a backpack allows your bike to be more nimble which is important.
How does having the batteries up high on your back make a bike more nimble than down low mounted on the bike? A backpack battery is a good way to save a heap of engineering and bike modification though :) .

On my last build, the battery system was by far the most engineering intensive part of the project. In my humble opinion, a cool bike mounted battery solution would be the icing on the cake for this drive. Would also go with a 6Fet mini monster controller to save on bike real estate.
Current Rides

Lightest true ebike on the planet: ON ROAD viewtopic.php?f=6&t=74269
eBoost on facebook: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Eboost/200306283342024/

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Re: The Beast Mid Drive. Giving 3 Away to Beta Testers!!!

Post by jdevo2004 » Apr 08 2015 8:23pm

Kepler wrote:
jdevo2004 wrote:
DaDo.Bzz wrote:Lol, battery on your back? It must be 6kg for such a powerfull motor. Lets try how long you can hold it in mountains. ;)))
It is not difficult at all. It is quite comfortable. It is not like I am exhausting myself from pedaling up a mountain here. There is no pedaling involved. On trails having your battery in a backpack allows your bike to be more nimble which is important.
How does having the batteries up high on your back make a bike more nimble than down low mounted on the bike? A backpack battery is a good way to save a heap of engineering and bike modification though :) .

On my last build, the battery system was by far the most engineering intensive part of the project. In my humble opinion, a cool bike mounted battery solution would be the icing on the cake for this drive. Would also go with a 6Fet mini monster controller to save on bike real estate.

It keeps the bike itself lighter and more easy to maneuver. Going from a 3 litre camel pack to a backpack battery pack is not a big leap. Many people who mountain bike carry backpacks. Anyone who has been downhill biking knows what I mean. It took a little getting used to in the beginning but it isn't so bad. I actually just picked up a new backpack that I am going to make a custom battery pack for. Check it out. Should secure that battery to my back nicely for jumping.

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emaayan   100 kW

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Re: The Beast Mid Drive. Giving 3 Away to Beta Testers!!!

Post by emaayan » Apr 09 2015 2:06am

r3volved wrote:If your chainring is moving faster than you can peddle then you can't input any power into the system. The system can't multiply torque if you can't input any.
ok, i can already recognize the pattern of "he just doesn't get it, explain it to him again" loop, so i'll break; while i'm ahead to make room for others :/, thanks for trying to explain it to me though :). if jdevo hasn't blocked me and if he ever sells it to me after he goes to productiom, i guess i'll have to try it out. (i won't be using it with 3000, more like 2000, cause from what i can tell 99% of all mid-drives stop at 48v and i don't want to purchase a pack for a mid-drive

btw personally for me, pack on my back is very bad idea, the reason being that it's like having a corded headphone connect to my pc at my work, i ALWAYS forget to unplug it when i get up, resulting in "radical dislocation" as 7of9 would put it. :roll: (don't tell me that the weight on my back will remind me, i'll get used it, but i'll still forget to unplug, i know me.
Trek 7.7 fx, 22.5" frame, 38x700c,10 gears.
ecospeed mid drive 1300 watt engine, max speed 45 kph.
battery1: 48v 14 ah, frame mounted battery, range 40km.
battery2(spare) 52v 10ah frame mounted bag, range, 30km.

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Re: The Beast Mid Drive Beta Giveaway. 9 Days Left to Enter

Post by dypsomaniart » Apr 09 2015 3:06am

Emaayan,
Ive been using a 5kg battery in a backpack for over a year. Ive never had a single case of forgetting to unplug it, or any other issues for that matter. 30 seconds into the ride you've forgotten its even there, and the bike still feels light like a bike instead of a tank. When you dismount, the cable is hanging in front of you. Its pretty easy to remember to unplug it! Worst case, mine uses an xt90 plug under the seat which pulls straight out if i were to fall or forget to unplug anyway.
Speculation that it would cause you problems is fair enough, but maybe a 'dont knock it till you've tried it' attitude would serve you better.

Jdevo,
Cool setup! Good luck, hope it goes well for you.

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emaayan   100 kW

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Re: The Beast Mid Drive Beta Giveaway. 9 Days Left to Enter

Post by emaayan » Apr 09 2015 3:20am

dypsomaniart wrote:Emaayan,
Ive been using a 5kg battery in a backpack for over a year. Ive never had a single case of forgetting to unplug it, or any other issues for that matter. 30 seconds into the ride you've forgotten its even there, and the bike still feels light like a bike instead of a tank. When you dismount, the cable is hanging in front of you. Its pretty easy to remember to unplug it! Worst case, mine uses an xt90 plug under the seat which pulls straight out if i were to fall or forget to unplug anyway.
Speculation that it would cause you problems is fair enough, but maybe a 'dont knock it till you've tried it' attitude would serve you better.

Jdevo,
Cool setup! Good luck, hope it goes well for you.
Actually i was talking about me in this regard, others may not have a problem, i know ego kit also uses a battery back pack
Actually the cable hanging infront of me when i ride, sounds a little risky
I don't like things to dangle, their very presence annoys me.


Trying it in this case is little problem since It's a battery ,costing more then a headphone, so its like i can turn it into a triangle.
Trek 7.7 fx, 22.5" frame, 38x700c,10 gears.
ecospeed mid drive 1300 watt engine, max speed 45 kph.
battery1: 48v 14 ah, frame mounted battery, range 40km.
battery2(spare) 52v 10ah frame mounted bag, range, 30km.

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Re: The Beast Mid Drive Beta Giveaway. 9 Days Left to Enter

Post by --freeride-- » Apr 09 2015 4:55am

A thun BB with plastik cups won't work at all with this motorplates, you just don't want to mount a 3kw motor with plastic cup...

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Re: The Beast Mid Drive Beta Giveaway. 9 Days Left to Enter

Post by dypsomaniart » Apr 09 2015 6:05am

Emaayan,
Once again the problems you are imagining are non existant. My cable i use the backpack waist strap to hold so that it falls straight out from my guts in the middle, its stiff enough that it doesnt noticably touch your legs, its short enough so that it has never caused restriction or tangled in anything. Ever.
Im only arguing your statements so people arent unnecessarily put off this set up. Done properly it works flawlessly. I have a year of happy usage as testiment. Its definitely my preferred setup and ive ridden quite a few ebikes with frame batteries now.

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emaayan   100 kW

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Re: The Beast Mid Drive Beta Giveaway. 9 Days Left to Enter

Post by emaayan » Apr 09 2015 9:04am

dypsomaniart wrote:Emaayan,
Once again the problems you are imagining are non existant. My cable i use the backpack waist strap to hold so that it falls straight out from my guts in the middle, its stiff enough that it doesnt noticably touch your legs, its short enough so that it has never caused restriction or tangled in anything. Ever.
Im only arguing your statements so people arent unnecessarily put off this set up. Done properly it works flawlessly. I have a year of happy usage as testiment. Its definitely my preferred setup and ive ridden quite a few ebikes with frame batteries now.
people shouldn't be put off by my personal preference, i'm the type of the guy who goes bananaz for just KNOWING there's something around me, even sensing it brushing against anything could stress me out or distract me, it doesn't have to make sense, but if anyone is like me they'll know what i'm talking about. now add the fact that i tend to clumsy at times, (as to multiple scarred scratches in my shims when i bump into things, would attest) they'll you'll understand my reluctance. as i said before, eGo also chose to go with a backpack battery.

besides that, i'm pretty sure jdevo doesn't mandate the battery form, so it really should effect the kit itself.

in fact i'm not sure how relevant the discussion of batteries and controllers is to the kit itself. questions about those are pretty much common with all 3rd party motor integration. you could spend eternity about arguing about c ratings, cell configuration without any specifics to the kit itself. it could be distracting.
Trek 7.7 fx, 22.5" frame, 38x700c,10 gears.
ecospeed mid drive 1300 watt engine, max speed 45 kph.
battery1: 48v 14 ah, frame mounted battery, range 40km.
battery2(spare) 52v 10ah frame mounted bag, range, 30km.

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