The Beast Mid Drive. In Beta Testing.

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
stonezone   100 W

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Re: The Beast Mid Drive. 3 Beta Testers Wanted!

Post by stonezone » Apr 10 2015 1:53pm

jdevo2004 wrote:Spinningmagnets: Too bad! If there is anyone here on ES forums that I would like to have test my kit it is you!

Amberwolf: The kit can use any speed cassette but I have found that the weakest part of the system of getting power to the ground in extreme terrain is the bicycle chain and the cassette. The bicycle chain can start skipping over the cog in extreme circumstances forcing the rider to reduce throttle and move slower. By using the largest first gear cog available on the market it allows the bicycle chain to have more grip and prevents damage from skipping. I am pretty sure that most duel suspension mountain bikes are sold with 10 speeds these days though I may be mistaken.

I would actually really like it if one of the mods were to test my kit. Hopefully one of the mods has the right qualifications!
When climbing hills on my trials bike, i'm 100% slipping the clutch to some degree the whole time I'd say. That's with a super fat, practically deflated tire, on a 145lb bike with all my weight over the rear tire. With much less weight, narrow, high pressure tires, there's always going to be issues that are hard to work around juggling gravity and traction.
DaDo.Bzz wrote:Lol, battery on your back? It must be 6kg for such a powerfull motor. Lets try how long you can hold it in mountains. ;)))
crap, the pack I carry when I'm trail riding my gasser has almost a gallon of gas, water, huge tool kit and usually a few beers ;) My 15s3p Lipo Brick backpack feels like nothing compared...
LR-BB on 2014 Glory
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2017 GG GP 300 <3

RIP Bobarella

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Re: The Beast Mid Drive Beta Giveaway. 8 Days Left to Enter

Post by kfong » Apr 10 2015 6:24pm

Count me in, looks like a good design. All I do is trail ride. I guess this will force me to do vids. Only interested if this setup is as quiet as the BBS02, noise is a big issue due to the flack with die hard mountain bikers. Currently putting together a Kona Stinky with the BBS02, but can switch it out to your setup. No mountains here, but pretty good single track. I have the resources, tools, skills both technical and physical.

My current single track favorite
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... &start=225

Too bad you don't support 100mm bb, such a beast requires a beast of a bike. This one has been patiently waiting.
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... =6&t=32963

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Re: The Beast Mid Drive Beta Giveaway. 8 Days Left to Enter

Post by jdevo2004 » Apr 10 2015 6:43pm

kfong wrote:Count me in, all I do is trail ride. I guess this will force me to do vids. Only interested if this setup is as quiet as the BBS02, noise is a big issue due to the flack with die hard mountain bikers. Currently putting together a Kona Stinky with the BBS02, but can switch it out to your setup. No mountains here, but pretty good single track. I have the resources, tools, skills both technical and physical.

My current single track favorite
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... &start=225
I will be straight with you. This kit is not as quiet as the BBS02. It is designed to run 4 times as much power. The kit is relatively quiet when used at 50 volts since the belt, chain and motor are running at a lower RPM. The problem with that is that at 50 volts you are limited to 2000 watts of power. If you want to get up to 3000 watts you need to run at least 75 volts which increases the RPM of all the parts and noise increases. The kit has a distinctive electric motor whine that people will hear. It is not loud until you start pushing 100 volts but it is there. If you want a very stealthy kit, look elsewhere.
That is not to say that I am not thinking about noise. I have some ideas that will help deal with it in the future, but that is something that is months away. For now the priority is making sure the thing works the way I want it to.

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Re: The Beast Mid Drive Beta Giveaway. 8 Days Left to Enter

Post by kfong » Apr 10 2015 10:32pm

2000w is plenty in stealth mode. How loud is it compared to a bbs02 at this level. The best trails around here I would need it quiet. Switching packs to high power would be only on ORV trails, where motorized vehicles are allowed. If you think its too noisy at 2000W, then my time on it would be limited. One of the reasons I never persued building a CNG midrive. Those who live out west In open desert could probably be a better candidate. There is already a movement against electric bikes on trails, Moab has already banned them. Ebikes that make their presence know will only get singled out unfortunately.

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Re: The Beast Mid Drive Beta Giveaway. 7 Days Left to Enter

Post by Gab » Apr 11 2015 4:54am

I will be straight with you. This kit is not as quiet as the BBS02. It is designed to run 4 times as much power. The kit is relatively quiet when used at 50 volts since the belt, chain and motor are running at a lower RPM. The problem with that is that at 50 volts you are limited to 2000 watts of power. If you want to get up to 3000 watts you need to run at least 75 volts which increases the RPM of all the parts and noise increases.
yeah thats' a good point, the higher the voltage the higher the power and hence the RPM which causes higher the noise, is it like the LR kit where the belt reduction is quiet but most of the noise comes from the motor whineing noise ?

Even the older cyclone kits were quiet at 24v 200w, the hard part is makeing it quiet at high power level. Hence why the BEWO middrive does not impress me that its quiet, as it so low power 2-300w, every kit is quiet at that power :) it would be cool if you take noise readings at a certain distance at different power levels.

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Re: The Beast Mid Drive Beta Giveaway. 6 Days Left to Enter

Post by izeman » Apr 12 2015 2:35pm

i think 2kw is a good compromise between power, ability to climb and wear of components. and you can reach 60km/h with 2kw which is ok for me as well. :)

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emaayan   100 kW

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Re: The Beast Mid Drive Beta Giveaway. 6 Days Left to Enter

Post by emaayan » Apr 12 2015 2:41pm

izeman wrote:i think 2kw is a good compromise between power, ability to climb and wear of components. and you can reach 60km/h with 2kw which is ok for me as well. :)
with or without pedaling?
Trek 7.7 fx, 22.5" frame, 38x700c,10 gears.
ecospeed mid drive 1300 watt engine, max speed 45 kph.
battery1: 48v 14 ah, frame mounted battery, range 40km.
battery2(spare) 52v 10ah frame mounted bag, range, 30km.

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Re: The Beast Mid Drive Beta Giveaway. 6 Days Left to Enter

Post by izeman » Apr 12 2015 2:45pm

emaayan wrote:
izeman wrote:i think 2kw is a good compromise between power, ability to climb and wear of components. and you can reach 60km/h with 2kw which is ok for me as well. :)
with or without pedaling?
no pedaling of course. it may depend on you weight ;) my little daughter can go really fast with only 500w.

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emaayan   100 kW

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Re: The Beast Mid Drive Beta Giveaway. 6 Days Left to Enter

Post by emaayan » Apr 12 2015 2:51pm

izeman wrote:
emaayan wrote:
izeman wrote:i think 2kw is a good compromise between power, ability to climb and wear of components. and you can reach 60km/h with 2kw which is ok for me as well. :)
with or without pedaling?
no pedaling of course. it may depend on you weight ;) my little daughter can go really fast with only 500w.
oh good, so since i'm 120 kg it's natrual that i shouldn't reach 60kph.
Trek 7.7 fx, 22.5" frame, 38x700c,10 gears.
ecospeed mid drive 1300 watt engine, max speed 45 kph.
battery1: 48v 14 ah, frame mounted battery, range 40km.
battery2(spare) 52v 10ah frame mounted bag, range, 30km.

jdevo2004   100 W

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Re: The Beast Mid Drive Beta Giveaway. 3 Days Left to Enter

Post by jdevo2004 » Apr 15 2015 1:11am

Three days left! There have been some great applicants so far but it never hurts to try!

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emaayan   100 kW

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Re: The Beast Mid Drive Beta Giveaway. 3 Days Left to Enter

Post by emaayan » Apr 15 2015 1:25am

jdevo2004 wrote:Three days left! There have been some great applicants so far but it never hurts to try!
Any predictions on when are you going to production?
Trek 7.7 fx, 22.5" frame, 38x700c,10 gears.
ecospeed mid drive 1300 watt engine, max speed 45 kph.
battery1: 48v 14 ah, frame mounted battery, range 40km.
battery2(spare) 52v 10ah frame mounted bag, range, 30km.

ScooterMan101   1 MW

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Re: The Beast Mid Drive Beta Giveaway. 2 Days Left to Enter

Post by ScooterMan101 » Apr 16 2015 2:48am

jdevo2004 ... Hopefully you are working on a BB30/PF30/BB86 Version !

as you might know most of the new and or good bikes have that kind of Bottom Bracket for the past few years now.
My first conversion ... Sold

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=71378&p=1077497&hil ... 1#p1077497

It's 2018 already, ( now 2019 ) lets get some real , improved e-bike / e-velomobile / e-motorcycle designs .

jdevo2004   100 W

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Re: The Beast Mid Drive Beta Giveaway. 2 Days Left to Enter

Post by jdevo2004 » Apr 17 2015 1:03am

ScooterMan101 wrote:jdevo2004 ... Hopefully you are working on a BB30/PF30/BB86 Version !

as you might know most of the new and or good bikes have that kind of Bottom Bracket for the past few years now.
Easy enough to use a converter.

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Re: The Beast Mid Drive Beta Giveaway. 2 Days Left to Enter

Post by ScooterMan101 » Apr 17 2015 1:41am

Ok.

jdevo2004 wrote:
ScooterMan101 wrote:jdevo2004 ... Hopefully you are working on a BB30/PF30/BB86 Version !

as you might know most of the new and or good bikes have that kind of Bottom Bracket for the past few years now.
Easy enough to use a converter.
My first conversion ... Sold

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=71378&p=1077497&hil ... 1#p1077497

It's 2018 already, ( now 2019 ) lets get some real , improved e-bike / e-velomobile / e-motorcycle designs .

Gab   100 W

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Re: The Beast Mid Drive. In Beta Testing.

Post by Gab » Apr 18 2015 3:47am

jdevo2004 ... Hopefully you are working on a BB30/PF30/BB86 Version !

as you might know most of the new and or good bikes have that kind of Bottom Bracket for the past few years now.


Easy enough to use a converter.
Their is no BB86 to BSA adapter as their is not enough room for one in their. Also BB30 and PF30 adaptors are all different , so depending which one you get then brackets will have to be spaced differently. And at minimium they will be an extra 4 to 6mm room needed to fit the adaptor, will their be enough between the cranks to allow this extra width ?

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Re: The Beast Mid Drive. In Beta Testing.

Post by ScooterMan101 » Apr 18 2015 9:37am

Gab , I did not know that about the BB86, There are adapters available for BB30/PF30 bikes , praxis works in Santa Cruz has such ( https://www.praxiscycles.com/conversion-bb/ ) , However they press into the BB area of the bike and ... Only ... adapt for the newer style 2 piece cranks ! , so anything that uses square taper crank arms will not work . The other adapters on the market seem to squeak and crack , from what I have been reading from review's , and from what a couple of my local Bicycle Mechanic's have told me is their experience . So far the Praxis adaptor seems to be the only good one, but again it is only for the newer 2 piece cranks.


When jdevo2004 was referring to " using a converter " I did not want to question him on this , as I am sure he is busy right now with trying to pick candidates for the Beta Testing Program.

: Edit , I just noticed in jdevo2004's picture , DSC00977.JPEG , that he is using an Octalink style BB . it is however , still for the threaded style BB area Frames.

I am hoping jdevo2004 , in the future is going to work on a newer style 2 piece crank, ( where the Drive side crank arm and spindle are mated ) bracket , or will that be solved by making just a different bracket from motor down to BB area ? jdevo2004 ?

Also

Many , indeed , most of the newer Full Suspension Bicycles on the Market , now have a interesting down tube design, look closely behind the crank chain rings , near the BB and you will see that the Down Tube does not go straight down to the the BB ,
they make a turn/curve to mate up with the BB area, which makes using a Befang BBS02 or the Beast also .. an interesting build, because now the Mid-Drive has to be angled down towards exactly where the front wheel/tire is.
Will there be a different bracket for each different make/model of bike ?

: Edit , I just took a closer look at picture DSC00993.Jpeg , and see that the Beast has a curved bracket to accommodate this fact, to make a nice , close fit to the down tube , at least on the bike he has.
Again I Wonder if that bracket will be different for each different Make/Model of bike that will come with the Beast?
If so that would be a great selling point, and be another improvement over the BBS02 .
Scooterman101





Gab wrote:
jdevo2004 ... Hopefully you are working on a BB30/PF30/BB86 Version !

as you might know most of the new and or good bikes have that kind of Bottom Bracket for the past few years now.


Easy enough to use a converter.
Their is no BB86 to BSA adapter as their is not enough room for one in their. Also BB30 and PF30 adaptors are all different , so depending which one you get then brackets will have to be spaced differently. And at minimium they will be an extra 4 to 6mm room needed to fit the adaptor, will their be enough between the cranks to allow this extra width ?
My first conversion ... Sold

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=71378&p=1077497&hil ... 1#p1077497

It's 2018 already, ( now 2019 ) lets get some real , improved e-bike / e-velomobile / e-motorcycle designs .

jdevo2004   100 W

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Re: The Beast Mid Drive. In Beta Testing.

Post by jdevo2004 » Apr 18 2015 12:09pm

BB sizes are certainly something I will be addressing in the future. The future for now is designing a basic system that works and then worrying about how it will fit all the bikes. I can not divulge any more information about what future plans are.

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emaayan   100 kW

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Re: The Beast Mid Drive. In Beta Testing.

Post by emaayan » Apr 18 2015 12:16pm

Even if he won't, there's nothing to stop someone else to try and design another lower bracket, this thing could shape like the pc architecture of ebikes..
Trek 7.7 fx, 22.5" frame, 38x700c,10 gears.
ecospeed mid drive 1300 watt engine, max speed 45 kph.
battery1: 48v 14 ah, frame mounted battery, range 40km.
battery2(spare) 52v 10ah frame mounted bag, range, 30km.

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Re: The Beast Mid Drive. In Beta Testing.

Post by ScooterMan101 » Apr 18 2015 2:47pm

I went back to the pictures again, and sure enough it looks like jdevo2004 already made it two separate brackets that bolt together ( upper that holds the motor, and lower that holds the cranks ) looks like he already has this part of the design already done in such a way that in the future , different lower brackets can be made to fit your exact bike so as to bring the motor close to the down tube . Excellent !
This motor/design is looking better and better all the time . the more I look at it , the more I like it .





emaayan wrote:Even if he won't, there's nothing to stop someone else to try and design another lower bracket, this thing could shape like the pc architecture of ebikes..
My first conversion ... Sold

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=71378&p=1077497&hil ... 1#p1077497

It's 2018 already, ( now 2019 ) lets get some real , improved e-bike / e-velomobile / e-motorcycle designs .

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emaayan   100 kW

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Re: The Beast Mid Drive. In Beta Testing.

Post by emaayan » Apr 18 2015 3:34pm

ScooterMan101 wrote:I went back to the pictures again, and sure enough it looks like jdevo2004 already made it two separate brackets that bolt together ( upper that holds the motor, and lower that holds the cranks ) looks like he already has this part of the design already done in such a way that in the future , different lower brackets can be made to fit your exact bike so as to bring the motor close to the down tube . Excellent !
This motor/design is looking better and better all the time . the more I look at it , the more I like it .





emaayan wrote:Even if he won't, there's nothing to stop someone else to try and design another lower bracket, this thing could shape like the pc architecture of ebikes..
that's what i always said way back even in L-R's thread, the motor's multiple mounting options "the interface" allow it to have multiple extensible mounting options, it's should be regarded like the "intel" for kits. in the future, you could have specialized lower bracket makers for a niche of bikes frames no one wants to bother with, or mainstream upper mounting options.

none of of them would ever sell it to me off course, :) but it's still would be exciting to see this evolution in progress.

unless someones starts to claim "ip".
Trek 7.7 fx, 22.5" frame, 38x700c,10 gears.
ecospeed mid drive 1300 watt engine, max speed 45 kph.
battery1: 48v 14 ah, frame mounted battery, range 40km.
battery2(spare) 52v 10ah frame mounted bag, range, 30km.

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crossbreak   100 MW

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Re: The Beast Mid Drive. In Beta Testing.

Post by crossbreak » Apr 20 2015 7:42pm

nice drive. why do you go though the derailleur if it is obsolete in your design anyway?

@emaayan plz less posts but more info here ;)

my dual freewheel jackshaft drive was copied a lot...since it is good i geuss. it was patented before i was even born, as spinningmagnets pointed out a year after i posted. Both coping and finding out that it was already invented before is fine, since this is exactly what i'm after here: confirmation. It's all about the EV revolution. There is plenty of money for us to be earned on this road anyway. So YES. We really need a battery that is high density and high power and easy to use! the OZ890 +INR25R is what i use. 2 of the oz890 could do 20s. Please do some concurrence and post your TI chip counterparts! I mean it! With full schematics please 8)

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Re: The Beast Mid Drive. In Beta Testing.

Post by stonezone » Jun 08 2015 4:13pm

Received and installed Beast with Grinfineon 40A controller running 48v15Ah Lipos on Giant Glory. Rear Drive is 9Speed Shimano Zee.

I'm looking forward to testing this thing thoroughly (as are all my friends).
Sean-Beast.jpg
Sean-Beast.jpg (45.92 KiB) Viewed 2472 times
:lol: :P :D
LR-BB on 2014 Glory
Sur-Ron
B B S-HD on some sort of DH Kona frame
2017 GG GP 300 <3

RIP Bobarella

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made_in_the_alps_legacy   10 kW

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Re: The Beast Mid Drive. In Beta Testing.

Post by made_in_the_alps_legacy » Jun 25 2015 3:44am

Thxs James,
received and installed the kit on my 2000 kona stinky, now running on 16Ah 18s LiPo with a Grinfineon 40A controller + CA DPS,
Looking forward to get the best of the beast, pictured yesterday evening in the envirronement it will have to evolve in :
Image

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Re: The Beast Mid Drive. In Beta Testing.

Post by stonezone » Jun 25 2015 4:37pm

Oh man, i'm coming to visit!
LR-BB on 2014 Glory
Sur-Ron
B B S-HD on some sort of DH Kona frame
2017 GG GP 300 <3

RIP Bobarella

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Re: The Beast Mid Drive. In Beta Testing.

Post by ScooterMan101 » Jun 26 2015 4:05am

What is the weight of the Beast Mid-Drive ?

What/How many watts are you showing on the cycle analyst ? at different throttle settings .

I don't see the battery pack , in your picture , where is it ?



Thanks
>


stonezone wrote:Received and installed Beast with Grinfineon 40A controller running 48v15Ah Lipos on Giant Glory. Rear Drive is 9Speed Shimano Zee.

I'm looking forward to testing this thing thoroughly (as are all my friends).
Sean-Beast.jpg
:lol: :P :D
My first conversion ... Sold

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=71378&p=1077497&hil ... 1#p1077497

It's 2018 already, ( now 2019 ) lets get some real , improved e-bike / e-velomobile / e-motorcycle designs .

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