new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

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gman1971   10 kW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by gman1971 » May 16 2016 11:52am

le15otl wrote:Will be good fun however fast!

I've installed a new motor freewheel and the side plates holding the cog have separated a bit causing the bearings to be exposed and the cog to wobble. Anyone know if there's a good way to tighten the motor freewheel?
what cog? the motor freewheel gear? and what bearing the motor planetary bearing?

G.
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-3 trike, ?-kW, ??+ mph (Cyclone powered) Very fast, ludicrous speed fast...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

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le15otl   100 W

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by le15otl » May 16 2016 3:47pm

The freewheel that goes on the motor. The actual sprocket is wobbly. But i found that I've gotta take it off to tighten from behind. Will use thread lock :)

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gman1971   10 kW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by gman1971 » May 16 2016 5:12pm

le15otl wrote:The freewheel that goes on the motor. The actual sprocket is wobbly. But i found that I've gotta take it off to tighten from behind. Will use thread lock :)
Okay, sounds good, I got confused with the term cog in the context... yes, you need to take the freewheel adapter and tighten it; threadlock in the Cyclone motor should come standard. How is the wheel freehub holding? did you get a new wheel or still running with the wobbly one?

G.
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-3 trike, ?-kW, ??+ mph (Cyclone powered) Very fast, ludicrous speed fast...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

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le15otl   100 W

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by le15otl » May 16 2016 5:51pm

Freehub is bad but not getting any worse and still works, but since then 3 more spokes have bust. Not worth investing in the hub when spokes are snapping under hard acceleration! I don't suppose you know of the most heavy duty wheel that you can buy that has a normal quick release axle?

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gman1971   10 kW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by gman1971 » May 16 2016 8:17pm

le15otl wrote:Freehub is bad but not getting any worse and still works, but since then 3 more spokes have bust. Not worth investing in the hub when spokes are snapping under hard acceleration! I don't suppose you know of the most heavy duty wheel that you can buy that has a normal quick release axle?
I don't know at the top of my head of the best best, but I am using this rear wheel on my Cyclone eBike with a shunt modded controller to 60 amps and I haven't had a single issue with it in about 1500 miles.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/371510883416

On the trike I am using a rear Vuelta Zerolite Pro 26" MTB with 24 spokes with excellent results; but then again the weight distribution on my trike is close to 80-20 (20% on the rear) so the rear wheel doesn't have to put up with the rider weight under hard acceleration (I never use the rear brake as using the rear brake on the trike is the sames as yanking the flip-me-up lever...)

I would go for a 36 spoke rear wheel like the one I posted a link up the top; also my advice would be that upon receiving the new wheel take it to the local bike shop and have them tension it properly as most don't come tensioned right from factory.

G.
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-3 trike, ?-kW, ??+ mph (Cyclone powered) Very fast, ludicrous speed fast...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

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le15otl   100 W

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by le15otl » May 17 2016 9:27am

It's tempting to go for that one, good price too. But from what I've seen here you don't push your bike quite as much riding fast on rough terrain and trying wheelies? That's when mine are breaking. saying that the wheel you have has good 2mm spokes which should be plenty tough enough. Do you reckon (if tightened properly) your wheel is suitable for very rough terrain and hard acceleration on 72V?
Thx

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by cheekybloke » May 17 2016 10:23am

le15otl wrote:Will be good fun however fast!

I've installed a new motor freewheel and the side plates holding the cog have separated a bit causing the bearings to be exposed and the cog to wobble. Anyone know if there's a good way to tighten the motor freewheel?
If the front plate unscrews as they usually do, use a longer grub screw then bend a washer to press on the front bit that unscrews then put a locknut on top.
I did this to mine and no issues ever.
Darren

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gman1971   10 kW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by gman1971 » May 17 2016 10:25am

le15otl wrote:It's tempting to go for that one, good price too. But from what I've seen here you don't push your bike quite as much riding fast on rough terrain and trying wheelies? That's when mine are breaking. saying that the wheel you have has good 2mm spokes which should be plenty tough enough. Do you reckon (if tightened properly) your wheel is suitable for very rough terrain and hard acceleration on 72V?
Thx
That's what I do sometimes, I'll just purchase random stuff to test it. This wheel was one of those and the gamble paid off, same as the Zero Lites...

Yes, I might not openly state I do wheelies on a regular basis but I've done more than a few, I also rode my eBike over pretty rough terrain and hard packed snow while towing cargo trailers during this past winter almost every weekend and didn't have any issues with it. Its a decent wheel, the hub is Deore which was a plus; just make sure you take it to the Local Bike Shop before installing, the tension was way off when I first got mine (it was perfectly round, but the tension wasn't right) I think they also make a similar 36 spoke version of that wheel, maybe you could try that one instead?

The trike is dumping 6 kW on a 24 spoke wheel, nothing has flex nor "wobblyness"; and according to the LBS tech proper tension is everything on those spoked wheels. (more so than brand)

G
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-3 trike, ?-kW, ??+ mph (Cyclone powered) Very fast, ludicrous speed fast...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by chunder123 » May 18 2016 10:13am

Problem i have found with the cyclone motor is the bottom bracket shell mount just doesn't work well or grip the motor mount plate tightly enough and it slips as the force of the motor is so powerful and under load it pulls the motor upwards into the frame downtube. it left a dent mark on my frame downtube. it needs a ebike frame designed for the motor to attach to. bb mount is no good

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by gman1971 » May 18 2016 10:44am

chunder123 wrote:Problem i have found with the cyclone motor is the bottom bracket shell mount just doesn't work well or grip the motor mount plate tightly enough and it slips as the force of the motor is so powerful and under load it pulls the motor upwards into the frame downtube. it left a dent mark on my frame downtube. it needs a ebike frame designed for the motor to attach to. bb mount is no good
I have a small piece of urethane between the motor and the downtube on my ebike. No issues here. Also if you have a dent it means your motor is lose. You need to use the hose clamp to prevent the motor from bouncing up and down when you go over rough terrain.

G.
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-3 trike, ?-kW, ??+ mph (Cyclone powered) Very fast, ludicrous speed fast...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by chunder123 » May 18 2016 11:04am

gman1971 wrote:
chunder123 wrote:Problem i have found with the cyclone motor is the bottom bracket shell mount just doesn't work well or grip the motor mount plate tightly enough and it slips as the force of the motor is so powerful and under load it pulls the motor upwards into the frame downtube. it left a dent mark on my frame downtube. it needs a ebike frame designed for the motor to attach to. bb mount is no good
I have a small piece of urethane between the motor and the downtube on my ebike. No issues here. Also if you have a dent it means your motor is lose. You need to use the hose clamp to prevent the motor from bouncing up and down when you go over rough terrain.

G.
regarldess how tight the bottom bracket mount is the motor force is so strong it slips and gets pulled upwards into the frame downwtube underneath. what it really needs is a heavy duty frame with welded motor attachment points into the design of the frame. on a frame with decent quality attachment system this kit would be ok. heavy duty motorcycle chain and rearwheel sprockets also. really the force is too much for cassete pawls

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gman1971   10 kW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by gman1971 » May 18 2016 12:05pm

chunder123 wrote:
gman1971 wrote:
chunder123 wrote:Problem i have found with the cyclone motor is the bottom bracket shell mount just doesn't work well or grip the motor mount plate tightly enough and it slips as the force of the motor is so powerful and under load it pulls the motor upwards into the frame downtube. it left a dent mark on my frame downtube. it needs a ebike frame designed for the motor to attach to. bb mount is no good
I have a small piece of urethane between the motor and the downtube on my ebike. No issues here. Also if you have a dent it means your motor is lose. You need to use the hose clamp to prevent the motor from bouncing up and down when you go over rough terrain.

G.
regarldess how tight the bottom bracket mount is the motor force is so strong it slips and gets pulled upwards into the frame downwtube underneath. what it really needs is a heavy duty frame with welded motor attachment points into the design of the frame. on a frame with decent quality attachment system this kit would be ok. heavy duty motorcycle chain and rearwheel sprockets also. really the force is too much for cassete pawls
Did you use the hose clamp at all (not the bb mount or bolts) the hose clamp? The bottom bracket mount is NOT supposed to hold the motor from rotating around the BB tube, that is why there is a a hose clamp supplied with the kit, which if installed properly the motor will never slam the downtube... sounds to me like the kit wasn't properly installed.

As for the heavy duty motorcycle chains and cogs; wow, that is a first... Here is what I am going to say: Take the time to read this thread, as comments like yours denote you haven't bothered to read a lick in this thread. Oh, and before you say "regardless how blah blah..." You should know I am running my Cyclone @ 6 kW (that is 6000 Watts) with a Shimano 10-speed bicycle chain and a 10-speed cassette... and after 700 fun miles my chain has less than .125% stretch (which is the min I can measure btw)... nuff said, I think you have some reading to do.

G.
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-3 trike, ?-kW, ??+ mph (Cyclone powered) Very fast, ludicrous speed fast...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by marklaken » May 18 2016 6:01pm

I just skimmed read 39 pages of info on this kit and am working on installing mine on an old Trek 8000 Hardtail. I have one boneheaded question that makes me wonder if I am missing something - is there a reason why everyone is trying to stiffen the bottom bracket mount instead of just installing a second mount at the front of the motor to the downtube of the bike? It seems like the motor would torque/twist and you get the best lever arm to stop the twist by making a second mounting point at the front. Seems like you could also eliminate the super high tech hose clamp and also maybe the chain tensioner.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Grizzl-E » May 18 2016 7:29pm

marklaken wrote:I just skimmed read 39 pages of info on this kit and am working on installing mine on an old Trek 8000 Hardtail. I have one boneheaded question that makes me wonder if I am missing something - is there a reason why everyone is trying to stiffen the bottom bracket mount instead of just installing a second mount at the front of the motor to the downtube of the bike? It seems like the motor would torque/twist and you get the best lever arm to stop the twist by making a second mounting point at the front. Seems like you could also eliminate the super high tech hose clamp and also maybe the chain tensioner.
The motor tends to twist along a nearly parallel axis to the down tube. If your going to go through the effort of that kind of mount, why not just remake the whole mounting system?
Only brutal acceleration will do.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by cbobgo » May 18 2016 7:53pm

Bench test, all plugged in and working. Bottom bracket is off, will be starting the install soon.

:)
13221095_10209838434743563_75182191108307638_n.jpg
13221095_10209838434743563_75182191108307638_n.jpg (62.79 KiB) Viewed 1842 times

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by cbobgo » May 18 2016 7:55pm

Grizzl-E wrote:
marklaken wrote:I just skimmed read 39 pages of info on this kit and am working on installing mine on an old Trek 8000 Hardtail. I have one boneheaded question that makes me wonder if I am missing something - is there a reason why everyone is trying to stiffen the bottom bracket mount instead of just installing a second mount at the front of the motor to the downtube of the bike? It seems like the motor would torque/twist and you get the best lever arm to stop the twist by making a second mounting point at the front. Seems like you could also eliminate the super high tech hose clamp and also maybe the chain tensioner.
The motor tends to twist along a nearly parallel axis to the down tube. If your going to go through the effort of that kind of mount, why not just remake the whole mounting system?
It's been done, here's the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FVt1rPqHIg not me, but I think this guy does post on here.

- bob

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gman1971   10 kW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by gman1971 » May 19 2016 12:27am

If you have access to a welder the most permanent solution would be to weld two very strong support points to the down tube; this will prevent any movement, but since most ppl don't have access to a welder its kinda hard to do.

On my trike I bolted the motor to the frame, (please see CAD diagrams) so motor doesn't move at all; okay, let me rephrase that before I get schooled again in material deformation; the motor mount doesn't flex enough to be of any concern, haven't thrown chains and my alignment tape I put in there to check for flex hasn't moved a single mm. The sideplate modification that Robocam suggested (and implemented) adds another point of leverage to the motor itself, and by doing that it also cancels the lever that is created by the twist of the motor against the first point of support. The mod is also very easy to do too, and doesn't require a welder or any special tools. I use the hose clamp but no zipties, and installed it in such a way that the hose clamp on my eBike holds the motor up to the downtube and the motor rests on a small block of urethane that has the shape of the downtube on one side.

G.
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-3 trike, ?-kW, ??+ mph (Cyclone powered) Very fast, ludicrous speed fast...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

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gman1971   10 kW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by gman1971 » May 19 2016 12:29am

cbobgo wrote:Bench test, all plugged in and working. Bottom bracket is off, will be starting the install soon.

:)
13221095_10209838434743563_75182191108307638_n.jpg
Very nice,

at the very least I would suggest enabling mode #3 on the controller and doing the simple washer mod, that will strengthen the mount enough to be reliable under most non-extreme riding conditions.

G.
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-3 trike, ?-kW, ??+ mph (Cyclone powered) Very fast, ludicrous speed fast...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

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gman1971   10 kW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by gman1971 » May 20 2016 2:50am

Well, another Cyclone trike is in the works. Alpha Two is coming together...

Image

More updates as they happen.

G.
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-3 trike, ?-kW, ??+ mph (Cyclone powered) Very fast, ludicrous speed fast...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

DingusMcGee   10 kW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by DingusMcGee » May 20 2016 7:59am

[the Cyclone 3000]? it needs [an] ebike frame designed for the motor to attach to. bb mount is no good

PURE BS if modified as we show!!

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gman1971   10 kW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by gman1971 » May 20 2016 11:48pm

DingusMcGee wrote:
[the Cyclone 3000]? it needs [an] ebike frame designed for the motor to attach to. bb mount is no good

PURE BS if modified as we show!!
I don't think I would be agreeing with this, but yes. There are plenty of ways to modify the mount to make it nearly indestructible. So, to whoever just says the motor mount needs a welded frame etc, please, care to read the thread before making such nonsensical claims. This topic has been debated to death here...

G.
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-3 trike, ?-kW, ??+ mph (Cyclone powered) Very fast, ludicrous speed fast...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by cwah » May 21 2016 4:43am

gman1971 wrote:You should know I am running my Cyclone @ 6 kW (that is 6000 Watts) with a Shimano 10-speed bicycle chain and a 10-speed cassette... and after 700 fun miles my chain has less than .125% stretch (which is the min I can measure btw)... nuff said, I think you have some reading to do.

G.
700 miles is nothing and not relevant data. I do 700 mes in less than a month!

What we need are chain and sprockets lasting more than 10K miles like on motorcycle.

On my bbs02 my shimano chain use to last around 1200 miles wheen I used the gears and up to 2500 miles when I changed to single speed chain and stopped shifting speed. However I am in a very rainy environment (london) and water accelerate greatly the wear of these elements.

Now I exclusively use direct drive to avoid all these hassle and constantly doing maintenance (lube and clean chain) as well as frequently buying replacement parts.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by DingusMcGee » May 21 2016 8:56am

What we need are chain[s] and sprockets lasting more than 10K miles like on motorcycle.
In particular:
like on motorcycle.
Bikes to pedal, which are what most of us reclaim to build our ebike, were designed towards minimizing weight while still having a system strong enough to hold up to big strong pedalers. As such they will never be strong like manufactured dirt bikes [motorized] & motorcycles as far as components holding up to some >10x the power input when used on the OEM bike drive train et al. This is our existential situation as choosers of modified street bikes for ebikes unless we can find some manufactured "bike" out there that was designed to be motorcyle but the designers simply left off the motor and added a petals-drivetrain.

You might think of the Greyborg Ebike Frame as such a frame but there is place for such frames. But until those ebike builders, like perhaps you?, get rid of the entire petal bike drivetrain on your home built ebikes, you carry the weaknesses of the OEM pedal bike drive train. I can accept this weakness, which you appear to have suggested as a weakness, but if I wanted an electric motorcycle-ebike I could have bought one or build the likes of one. And so, I challenge your view of What we need as applied to my needs as I am sort of satisfied with the OEM performance as everything has a price tag. And yes my riding skills on rough hill climbs give more abuse to the ebike than its OEM parts can take. As I see it, lower your expectations or change[out] the parts. I have lowered my expectations of what this ebike can do on hills -- really I can push it uphill with power assist on these difficult hills.

And yes, your point of view as an ideal? OK, OKAY

A well tuned torque limiting clutch on the OEM ebike drivetrain may be the answer to preserving the the OEM drivetrain while while letting the rider try his hardest to abuse it.
[/i]
Last edited by DingusMcGee on May 21 2016 9:43am, edited 2 times in total.

DingusMcGee   10 kW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by DingusMcGee » May 21 2016 9:35am

gman,
I don't think I would be agreeing with this, but yes.
In the end we share similar views and both use a pragmatic idea of modification to meet our needs.

So working modifications that work for you under the conditions of how you use them do certainly fall into the valid category of ...as we show [to work].

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Triketech » May 21 2016 9:53am

Maybe its just me, but as soon as I see things like hose clamps I lose interest in something that goes on a bike.

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