new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

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markz   100 GW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by markz » Aug 08 2017 11:07pm

How often do London pigs harrass ebikers?

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by zackclark70 » Aug 08 2017 11:33pm

markz wrote:How often do London pigs harrass ebikers?
not often for bikes that are obviously legal / close to legal but i wouldn't want to be on my offroad fast bike as its stupid quick and worth to much to risk loosing i know the chance of them catching me is low and even lower if you factor in i can probably out run them but i cant be bothered with all the trouble i would like to keep a clean motorbike licence and an op ebike can risk me loosing that licence

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robocam   10 kW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by robocam » Aug 09 2017 12:29am

The 4000 watt coaxial is a brand new design that probably no one here has tried. The motor has a 6:1 reduction just like the Cyclone 3000, but it does not have the secondary chain reduction of 3.38:1, so the final reduction of the Cyclone 3000 is 20.3:1 vs the coaxial's 6:1. It is unknown how this will affect things in real life. It may be no issue for commuters while off-roaders might have an issue with the reduced torque.

Also keep in mind that the coaxial is 4000 watts simply because it is run with a 60A controller. If the Cyclone 3000 is connected to a 60A controller, it too would be 4000 watts plus. You can also easily shunt-mod the stock controller to 90A (at 72V it's around 6500W).

The main advantages of the coaxial motor are the claimed reduction in noise and the in-frame motor design. Not having a secondary reduction chain might also result in an increased reliability because there is no chain to drop. Many have ordered this bike, so I'm eager to hear about their experiences.
markz wrote:Was going to buy the BBSHD but the Cyclone 3000W seems better suited because I like more power.
Whats this higher powered 4kw Cyclone, even better! Only 4 bills, fits nicely into my budget.
Should start saving a couple hunnies ontop of the dd sale.
More research needed.

robocam wrote:Actually, I feel like you get a lot more than what you pay for with the Cyclone. It's the deal of the decade. Better than any mid drive in this price range. After you install and remove the arms a few times, it will get easier. I guess they could have included bolts that were a couple mm longer without increasing the price, and I don't know why it's taking them so long to provide a decent mount. It could also use a better chain tensioner. But at this price point, I'll try not to complain.

The only mid drives I would consider are the BBSHD and Cyclone 3000. If you run a mid drive with a belt, it will break. It's just a matter of when. The BBSHD will feel much weaker than a Cyclone. With the Cyclone, you can be in any gear on your bike and go. With the BBSHD, you have to constantly shift gears. The only real advantage the BBSHD has is its quietness. But there is a way you can get more power out of the BBSHD. You can run it with an external controller.

I have a Cyclone 3000, a BBSHD and a GNG belt-driven mid drive similar to the LR, but with a 20mm wide belt which promptly snapped when I ran it with the Cyclone's 40A controller. The LR uses a 25mm belt, which isn't much wider. Dingus has snapped an LR belt. The Cyclone is proven to withstand much more as proven by many here including Gman at 90A/72V with a shunt-modded stock controller.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 5#p1223967

Having tried the three designs, I'm building my next ultimate trail bike with another Cyclone 3000, and I'm placing it in the triangle for maximum ground clearance (my BBSHD was constantly catching on roots, logs, and rocks). I chose a square-tapered bottom bracket this time so that I can use the PAS sensor. I don't really see any issue with square-tapered bottom brackets. Not really sure what issues people are having. Maybe heavy people bend them? I'm 180 lbs, and the BBSHD's bottom bracket feels solid to me.

Oh, here's another Cyclone offering that's interesting. I'm so tempted to try it out.

-up to 4000 watts
-in frame motor
-170mm rear travel
-can take a tapered steerer
-takes tire sizes 26x4, 27.5x3, 29
-$799 + shipping!!! (introductory price that will end in a few weeks)

http://www.cyclone-tw.com/Coaxial.html


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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by robocam » Aug 09 2017 12:37am

Here's the 7500w kit on a big box bike.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KemJO_B2FGE

It's not so much power that's the limiting factor, it's torque. If you choose your gearing wisely, you can run crazy levels of power through even the cheapest of bicycle drivetrains. The reason the 7500w kit doesn't tear your bike apart is because it doesn't have the 6:1 primary reduction that the Cyclone 3000 has.

It seems that most people only buy one of two motors they offer (the Cyclone 3000 or the Cyclone Mini as Luna Cycle calls it). The different wattages come from the different controllers. They offer different motors, but they aren't as popular for some reason.
markz wrote:So for their $399 2kw-4kw kits they charge $120 for s/h $520USD($658CAD/AUS)

Difference is between 2-4kw and 1.8kw-3kw
650-1.7kw
Those numbers gotta be Nominal (# - #) Maximum

Then theres the crazy 7.5kw and 18kw with BB setup which would rip through any bicycle grade components.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by robocam » Aug 09 2017 12:50am

Yeah, you should definitely research the Samsung 25r. I really feel that it is the best for high-current use. The other cell I would consider is the 30q, but its voltage drops off toward the end. Study the discharge graphs.

http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries20 ... %20UK.html

http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries20 ... %20UK.html

The Sick Bike Parts kit should be almost the same. You can always email them to ask. I do like Luna's black-colored brackets though.

I don't think the torque-sensing bottom brackets are wide enough. You need at least a 150mm wide spindle for the crank arms to clear the motor. Is anyone using those? I wonder if an offset crank arm could make it work.

What magnet trick are you referring to?

What do you mean about the box compressing the battery contacts?
GlowInTheDarkNinja wrote:Those cells are a great price, but I had a hard time finding what kind of current they are rated for. I honestly don't mind paying a little extra for good cells, since I'm building my own battery I want to do everything as 'right' or as reasonably over done as possible. Buying cells with good data, and high drain just makes me feel better. But as an EE student, I'll probably have to order one of these anyways just for other projects.

I dis PM a vender on the forumns for sale section and am waiting for a response at the moment.

The only reason I'm pushed away from these other motor kit vendors is that I can figure out exactly what I'm getting in the luna kit. Which these kits are a little more mysterious.

I just found out that the cadence sensor listed on the kit luna cycle offers is not ISIS compatible (without modification?)
I've seen some pricey BBs with torque sensors build in. $140-$240
This does make me want to consider getting a square taper to start, then maybe upgrade to one of these down the road.

A shunt mod does sound really cool. But I have think I would like to program the controller. If I slap a front hub on another bike I have, I will definitely consider it.

Maybe I'll even hold back on these sensors. I figured I could use the controller's manual to figure out how to wire them. But if everyone is having trouble...

The sunkko looks great. I just saw the magnet trick, and im really considering it. I wanted to make a box that would compress my battery contacts a little bit anyways.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by robocam » Aug 09 2017 12:56am

Motorcycle feel?

You might even consider ordering it with a 44/44/32. That way you can try 2 different ratios to see which one works the best. If they don't list it as an option with the Cyclone, you could try emailing them to see if they can do it manually. You could even just add it to the order so that you have spare parts.

https://lunacycle.com/parts/cyclone-par ... r-cyclone/
GlowInTheDarkNinja wrote:...Mostly because I think I want to commit to a motorcycle feel I think I'll take your advice and order it with a 44/44t chainring, so I can swap the brakes and shifter and then get a full twist grip over a thumb throttle...

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gman1971   10 kW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by gman1971 » Aug 09 2017 2:20am

Yeah, don't risk it... not worth getting your bike impounded... Here in the US nobody has bothered me (yet) while riding a trike that looks (and performs) like race car, in fact, all I get is thumbs up from everybody... which is cool but then I also don't drive it like a hooligan either.

G.
zackclark70 wrote:
gman1971 wrote:
zackclark70 wrote:i should get about 100 miles if i stick to 25wh/mile my longest regular ride is only 50 miles so i am more than covered :) 36ah maximum usable would
be close to 2.7kwh would even get 20 miles + on my beast at max power not sure i could even keep it running that much power as it will do 50mph offroad at 75wh/mile
I used to get around 13000 mAh on those 12000 cells; now I run 16,000s only. What range are you speaking of? and at what average speed? pedal or no pedal?
25Wh/mile at what average speed?

G.
25wh/mile is the average over the last 2000 miles i think the average speed is about 18mph as the bike is restricted to 15.5mph +/- 10% ( reason i can get a higher average is the down hills i can sit at 20-25mph with easy pedaling) 25wh accounts for all the headwinds tailwinds and hills that is with only pedaling down hill i find motor power on flat with motor and human up hill and human only down hill is the best for average speed or a legal bike

my offroad bikes have so much more power but i would never take them into london on the road as its just asking to get busted
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-3 trike, ?-kW, ??+ mph (Cyclone powered) Very fast, ludicrous speed fast...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by gman1971 » Aug 09 2017 2:22am

zackclark70 wrote:
markz wrote:How often do London pigs harrass ebikers?
not often for bikes that are obviously legal / close to legal but i wouldn't want to be on my offroad fast bike as its stupid quick and worth to much to risk loosing i know the chance of them catching me is low and even lower if you factor in i can probably out run them but i cant be bothered with all the trouble i would like to keep a clean motorbike licence and an op ebike can risk me loosing that licence
You might be able to outrun their cars and motorcycles, but you can't outrun Motorola...

G.
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-3 trike, ?-kW, ??+ mph (Cyclone powered) Very fast, ludicrous speed fast...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

GlowInTheDarkNinja   10 mW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by GlowInTheDarkNinja » Aug 09 2017 12:35pm

Does anyone know how well this:
http://www.ebikes.ca/product-info/cycle-analyst-3.html
Works with the cyclone 3kw, or the KbS72121x kelly controller?
It sure seems to do quite a bit for you. Maybe it's better for people with one of the 'stock' controller that would come in a kit?

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by ebike11 » Aug 09 2017 4:33pm

robocam wrote:Here's the 7500w kit on a big box bike.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KemJO_B2FGE

It's not so much power that's the limiting factor, it's torque. If you choose your gearing wisely, you can run crazy levels of power through even the cheapest of bicycle drivetrains. The reason the 7500w kit doesn't tear your bike apart is because it doesn't have the 6:1 primary reduction that the Cyclone 3000 has.

It seems that most people only buy one of two motors they offer (the Cyclone 3000 or the Cyclone Mini as Luna Cycle calls it). The different wattages come from the different controllers. They offer different motors, but they aren't as popular for some reason.
markz wrote:So for their $399 2kw-4kw kits they charge $120 for s/h $520USD($658CAD/AUS)

Difference is between 2-4kw and 1.8kw-3kw
650-1.7kw
Those numbers gotta be Nominal (# - #) Maximum

Then theres the crazy 7.5kw and 18kw with BB setup which would rip through any bicycle grade components.
@robocam...do you recommend the 3000 or 7500 motor?
Also would you have a ballpark figure regarding top speed with 72V ?

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by zackclark70 » Aug 09 2017 5:32pm

gman1971 wrote:
zackclark70 wrote:
markz wrote:How often do London pigs harrass ebikers?
not often for bikes that are obviously legal / close to legal but i wouldn't want to be on my offroad fast bike as its stupid quick and worth to much to risk loosing i know the chance of them catching me is low and even lower if you factor in i can probably out run them but i cant be bothered with all the trouble i would like to keep a clean motorbike licence and an op ebike can risk me loosing that licence
You might be able to outrun their cars and motorcycles, but you can't outrun Motorola...

G.
i am fairly sure if people can avoid them all the time on 50cc peds an ebike would aswell im just not into breaking the law and getting chased by cops for the sake of getting somewhere a few mins quicker i will have a road legal 11.5kw soon anyway

GlowInTheDarkNinja   10 mW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by GlowInTheDarkNinja » Aug 09 2017 9:23pm

robocam wrote:Yeah, you should definitely research the Samsung 25r. I really feel that it is the best for high-current use. The other cell I would consider is the 30q, but its voltage drops off toward the end. Study the discharge graphs.
http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries20 ... %20UK.html
http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries20 ... %20UK.html

What magnet trick are you referring to?

What do you mean about the box compressing the battery contacts?
On a solder-less battery thread there was talk about using magnets to fix copper bus bars to the battery ends.
My father works with sheet metal, and I have a bit too.
While folks on that thread have been using foil, I'm planning to using a thin sheet that I can dent, to get good contact.
then put a magnet in the dent to fill the space and mount it. mount those buss bars with insulation matting. and give it a gentle squeeze in a protective box.
I'm going to try and model it so I can get an accurate opinion on what I'm thinking.

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gman1971   10 kW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by gman1971 » Aug 10 2017 3:15am

zackclark70 wrote:
gman1971 wrote:
zackclark70 wrote:
markz wrote:How often do London pigs harrass ebikers?
not often for bikes that are obviously legal / close to legal but i wouldn't want to be on my offroad fast bike as its stupid quick and worth to much to risk loosing i know the chance of them catching me is low and even lower if you factor in i can probably out run them but i cant be bothered with all the trouble i would like to keep a clean motorbike licence and an op ebike can risk me loosing that licence
You might be able to outrun their cars and motorcycles, but you can't outrun Motorola...

G.
i am fairly sure if people can avoid them all the time on 50cc peds an ebike would aswell im just not into breaking the law and getting chased by cops for the sake of getting somewhere a few mins quicker i will have a road legal 11.5kw soon anyway
Lol... it also depends on how bad they want to get you too...

G.
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-3 trike, ?-kW, ??+ mph (Cyclone powered) Very fast, ludicrous speed fast...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

ebike11   100 kW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by ebike11 » Aug 13 2017 8:10am

Hi guys
I noticed that most discussion is about the 3000watt motor. What about the larger 7500watt? i believe thats the size. Are the specs for the 3000 just as good overall? Wouldnt the larger motor give more top end? I dont plan on pedaling and i have 72v pack
Thanks!

markz   100 GW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by markz » Aug 14 2017 12:14am

7500W is too much power for a bicycle, it will break components very easily.
Just buy the 3000W motor and you will be fine.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by gman1971 » Aug 14 2017 1:38am

ebike11 wrote:Hi guys
I noticed that most discussion is about the 3000watt motor. What about the larger 7500watt? i believe thats the size. Are the specs for the 3000 just as good overall? Wouldnt the larger motor give more top end? I dont plan on pedaling and i have 72v pack
Thanks!
The 7500W is about the size of the C3000W, and has some advantages (no planetary) but you'll need to gear it properly, some ppl are running it without destroying their bike frames, but you'll be on uncharted territory as it isn't a widespread kit as the C3000W kit is.

G.
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-3 trike, ?-kW, ??+ mph (Cyclone powered) Very fast, ludicrous speed fast...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by ebike11 » Aug 14 2017 2:14am

gman1971 wrote:
ebike11 wrote:Hi guys
I noticed that most discussion is about the 3000watt motor. What about the larger 7500watt? i believe thats the size. Are the specs for the 3000 just as good overall? Wouldnt the larger motor give more top end? I dont plan on pedaling and i have 72v pack
Thanks!

The 7500W is about the size of the C3000W, and has some advantages (no planetary) but you'll need to gear it properly, some ppl are running it without destroying their bike frames, but you'll be on uncharted territory as it isn't a widespread kit as the C3000W kit is.

G.
Ok. In your mod video and signature below..it says 65mph and in the video 74mph..is that on only 40 something volts??

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Slowrider » Aug 14 2017 10:01am

Hi, is there a big difference from the kit direct from Cyclone vs Luna cycle kit ?

Seems like the Luna cycle is out of stock so I am tempted to get it direct from factory.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by gman1971 » Aug 14 2017 10:17am

To clarify: my trike (not ebike) runs on 72V and 6500W with a C3000W motor and I've gone as fast as 64.5 mph on it on the road. The 74 mph in the eBike video was done with the wheel lifted off the ground, as that eBike top speed was ~45 mph on 3kW at 48V (shunted to 60A controller)

Hope this helps.

G.
ebike11 wrote:
gman1971 wrote:
ebike11 wrote:Hi guys
I noticed that most discussion is about the 3000watt motor. What about the larger 7500watt? i believe thats the size. Are the specs for the 3000 just as good overall? Wouldnt the larger motor give more top end? I dont plan on pedaling and i have 72v pack
Thanks!

The 7500W is about the size of the C3000W, and has some advantages (no planetary) but you'll need to gear it properly, some ppl are running it without destroying their bike frames, but you'll be on uncharted territory as it isn't a widespread kit as the C3000W kit is.

G.
Ok. In your mod video and signature below..it says 65mph and in the video 74mph..is that on only 40 something volts??
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-3 trike, ?-kW, ??+ mph (Cyclone powered) Very fast, ludicrous speed fast...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by ebike11 » Aug 14 2017 1:37pm

gman1971 wrote:To clarify: my trike (not ebike) runs on 72V and 6500W with a C3000W motor and I've gone as fast as 64.5 mph on it on the road. The 74 mph in the eBike video was done with the wheel lifted off the ground, as that eBike top speed was ~45 mph on 3kW at 48V (shunted to 60A controller)

Hope this helps.

G.
ebike11 wrote:
gman1971 wrote:
ebike11 wrote:Hi guys
I noticed that most discussion is about the 3000watt motor. What about the larger 7500watt? i believe thats the size. Are the specs for the 3000 just as good overall? Wouldnt the larger motor give more top end? I dont plan on pedaling and i have 72v pack
Thanks!

The 7500W is about the size of the C3000W, and has some advantages (no planetary) but you'll need to gear it properly, some ppl are running it without destroying their bike frames, but you'll be on uncharted territory as it isn't a widespread kit as the C3000W kit is.

G.
Ok. In your mod video and signature below..it says 65mph and in the video 74mph..is that on only 40 something volts??
Ok i see.....and what is the highest that is possible to shunt the controller that comes with the 3000 kit?

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by gman1971 » Aug 14 2017 1:46pm

90A is the max I've managed in CA with loads of solder at the shunt. If you're looking into more power, I would certainly get a different controller.

G.
ebike11 wrote:Ok i see.....and what is the highest that is possible to shunt the controller that comes with the 3000 kit?
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
A-3 trike, ?-kW, ??+ mph (Cyclone powered) Very fast, ludicrous speed fast...
A-1B trike, 6+kW, 65+mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM
A-2A trike 3kW, 50mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNoqp0wl6Vo
eB-1C bike 3kW, 42mph (Cyclone powered): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weSmz_h3Ig

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by markz » Aug 14 2017 2:20pm

Slowrider wrote:Hi, is there a big difference from the kit direct from Cyclone vs Luna cycle kit ?

Seems like the Luna cycle is out of stock so I am tempted to get it direct from factory.
My guess is they are exactly the same, which is to say he probably just slapped a Luna sticker on there, so branding his own. Now he probably could have done perhaps some heavier guage wire, better mounting but I am unsure. Again, just guesses.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by GlowInTheDarkNinja » Aug 15 2017 12:24pm

Slowrider wrote:Hi, is there a big difference from the kit direct from Cyclone vs Luna cycle kit ?

Seems like the Luna cycle is out of stock so I am tempted to get it direct from factory.

Luna will be back in stock in a week or two. A new shipment of motors is shipping now. Im planning to buy a kitt too when they restock.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Pablo » Aug 15 2017 6:29pm

Why limit the purchasing to only Luna or Cyclone direct?

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by GlowInTheDarkNinja » Aug 15 2017 10:20pm

Pablo wrote:Why limit the purchasing to only Luna or Cyclone direct?
From everywhere I ended up visiting, luna has a really good price for their kit, and you continue to get good discounts when you upgrade parts.

For example, the kelly controller Luna offers is a kelly kbs72121x, this controller is a $90 upgrade from luna, $170 from kelly's website.

The staff I've chatted with from Luna were also very helpful, and have kept me well informed as I've planned by build.

I also haven't seen a lot of kits that let you upgrade components in the kit. The kit just is what it is. Which is fine, but I want what I want, and Luna helps me get just about everything at a fairly competitive price, at one stop.

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