new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
TOLM   10 mW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by TOLM » Oct 06 2018 3:31am

MarkLeeds wrote:
Oct 04 2018 12:36pm
TOLM wrote:
Sep 30 2018 7:27am
⬆ wow you squeezed that thing. Can you post more pics how you did it? Curious about the mounts, etc.

Thanks
Really sorry but I'm flat out with work so don't have time right now. I took loads of pictures and will do a proper build thread soon. The motor mounts attach to the crank same as the stock mount but also attach to the rear suspension mounts. I used longer bolts and spacers so the suspension still works. I designed the brackets using a free program called inkscape and printed the mounts on paper which I glued to cardboard. When happy i made some plywood versions. After much faffing/many iterations I emailed the design to my local laser printers and had them made out of 5mm thick aluminium. Cost was maybe 70 USD. They are as solid as rock and i've had no problems so far. I also designed my battery cases in a similar way, there are 2 and each holds 40 cells and are made out of 3mm thick aluminium.

This bike is absolutely awesome, it has far exceeded my expectations - thanks again everyone for posting such great ideas.
Thanks for sharing. Awesome end result.

Tommm   100 W

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Tommm » Oct 17 2018 6:59am

ryanf55 wrote:
Oct 03 2018 12:15am
That's easy:)

So I got the replacement throttle hall sensor working. Had to use an Arduino to invert the signal, but it works alright. For whatever reason, the new sensor is very jittery, and makes the throttle jump around a bunch, so I implemented some mediocre filtering. Also, the controller is sending 4.5V out to the sensor, which prohibits a 5V arduino from being used!
In the same boat. Got a new sensor (leg broke off old one) range of signal is even more compressed. "Adjust accelerator curve" setting is good to keep it usable. First and last third is dead. Since the controller does send out 4.5v instead of 5v, thinking of sourcing the 5v from somewhere else. In the documentation it says throttle is from 1v to 4v, very perplexed as the sensor should do (1v to (source voltage-1v)), so (1v to 3.5v), which is not the case.

kachou   1 mW

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A 122 pages summary - all you need to know for your Cyclone build

Post by kachou » Oct 17 2018 8:07am

Guys, guys, guys,

Over the last days, I read the entire thread and its 122 pages...

Preparing my first Cyclone project, I gathered 89 contributions over the 122 pages that seemed interesting and reliable.

These contributions can be found here:

A 122 pages summary - all you need to know for your Cyclone buildhttps://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing


I did not got into advanced technicalities (such as modding controlleurs) but I tried to get the essential things to know about this mid drive motor, the "Cyclone for dummies" book.

If you found this link helpful for your $2000 Cyclone project, feel free to tip in my jar: paypal.me/arorobaz
If I get $2 I know I would not have wasted these days of work! :D

Also please tell me if I am missing some key contributions from the thread.

A huge thank you to all the users here for sharing your experience! It makes the beauty of DIY e-biking :wink:

PS : I almost cried when Gman and Dingus made peace after a 100 pages of bloody war. :lol: I got caught up by this tense show.

DingusMcGee   10 kW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by DingusMcGee » Oct 18 2018 7:05am

Kachou,

You say, "preparing for my first " ...cyclone build ... 'that seemed interesting and reliable'.

This ebike building is not like Philosophy where we THINK we can determine all that is relevant apriori. I am quite sure if Gman or I had done a summary it would be somewhat different than yours as it would be based upon our engineering like skills and experience with the product.

You are not getting $2 from me ... but thanks for such an attempt at a summary..

DingusMcGee   10 kW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by DingusMcGee » Oct 18 2018 7:28am

Making KEYS

The local ACE Hardware has some quite sophisticated key grinding tools and a huge selection of key blanks but they could not make a working key for the throttle-voltage RO and key lock that comes as option with the C-3000 kits.

They did make a key from an ilco YH38 blank that looked like the right blank choice and their blank choosing machine also chose this blank. The cut key would not fit into the Throttles key hole. It was too thick. The ilco key is 0.78" thick and the OEM key is 0.68" thick.

I took the cut thick ilco YH38 key home and ground some thickness off both sides of the key until it fit into the key hole. I did the grinding with a handheld cordless Makita grinder so you do not need a great deal of parallel planeing to get a working key as my first try worked.

kachou   1 mW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by kachou » Oct 18 2018 7:48am

DingusMcGee wrote:
Oct 18 2018 7:05am
Kachou,

You say, "preparing for my first " ...cyclone build ... 'that seemed interesting and reliable'.

This ebike building is not like Philosophy where we THINK we can determine all that is relevant apriori. I am quite sure if Gman or I had done a summary it would be somewhat different than yours as it would be based upon our engineering like skills and experience with the product.
I am kind of excited to get an aggressive answer from Dingus, as it seems to be a baptism for every one around here, or a welcoming hazing! I am therefore officially part of the E-S crowd now ! :mrgreen:

I already built 4 e-bikes from scratch (Q100 CST x 2, BBSHD, BBS02), including the bike parts (not only adding the electrical parts to an existing bike, but building from the frame up), so you can take back your comment about philosophy or apriori relevance.

Now, as I have read all your contributions in this thread, I know you are a man of facts, pragmatism and empirical measures. I therefore invite you to go through my summary and point precisely at what could be improved, for the greater good.
DingusMcGee wrote:
Oct 18 2018 7:05am
You are not getting $2 from me ... but thanks for such an attempt at a summary..
Can we settle for $1? :wink:

DingusMcGee   10 kW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by DingusMcGee » Oct 18 2018 8:34am

Kachou,

I am not going to work through your format making "corrections". My format would include stated goals like the use of a min-max strategy.

e.g. Simply: properly placed Gear clamps work to stabilized the motor frame in the harshest of conditions -- McGee. Others have built machined pieces to weitgty frames to do the same stabilization -- Robo and others etc and etc......

Important stuff to know: the motor works best at high rpm -- Gman.



I am not giving even $1 as you seem to think having built other bolt on kit models qualifies you -- it does not.

Tommm   100 W

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Tommm » Oct 18 2018 9:54am

A guide with sections similar to the ones you made would make more sense than just forum posts. I have been thinking myself of making such a thing, but I only have the cyclone coaxial motor, so not as useful here.

DingusMcGee   10 kW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by DingusMcGee » Nov 06 2018 8:27am

Resolved: which hand to control the rear brake on an Edirtbike?

My two Cyclone 3000 edirtbikes are built from Specialized Big Hit downhill frames and they each have one gear only which is suited to the terrain I ride. The Standard: about 100% of the Mtn Bike retail sales have the rear brake actuated by the right hand.

My brakes handles have semi adjustable ebrake switches but I began to understand how for some maneuvers a left handed brake lever would be better than the standard rear on right because of the need for hands on fine throttle ratcheting (my throttle is on the right) and while doing intermittent rear braking. Braking hard with the front on a downhill turn can cause wheel washout and a dumping.

The bike with Hayes Brakes looked to have the easiest handle swap for the trial of rear brake control with left hand. For it I did choose a difficult trail that would need billy goat walking with careful modulation of the throttle and rear brakes to do smoothly while attempting the condition of no feet touching the trail.

Observation: better riding control with the change to left handed rear bake control was immediately obvious and the change took little time to adjust for such happenings as accidentally over pulling the front brake.

AlpinaEbiker   1 µW

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cyclone 4000W Ebike DONT BUY IT

Post by AlpinaEbiker » Nov 17 2018 7:37am

Hey everyone, I just wanted to share my experience with Cyclone Ebike Taiwan… Either I got to be the unluckiest of their customers or it means that other similar products costs more for a reason. Anyway as you’ll see below I’ve only had issues in 6 months of owning the bike, and despite Paco being very responsive the product you get is simply not what is advertised and the quality of most elements is so cheap it cannot handle being taken offroad.

So here goes how it all went; In April 2018 I decided to get myself an ebike that could go on trails and in the city, with a discreet look yet a good acceleration without pedalling. Not only it is difficult to find this balance but being on a budget after recently getting a house and a car I wanted to first try this new generation of bikes before investing.

Advertised below 2k before all options this one seemed like a decent one and in this type of configuration / budget there wasn’t much of a choice anyway.
elite1a_1_1_1.jpg
After a few emails and seeing that Cyclone Taiwan and Paco had enough reviews online I decided to wire the money and cross my fingers
Elite bike details.PNG

Advertised “in Stock” and “send in one day” but already
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payment on 3rd, and after a dozen emails…
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Already it took me about 6 weeks to get the bike ( adding customs and so ), but that was only the beggining…

It arrived without any documents or users manual, so I ended up plugging the controller wrong and frying it directly, as I got really mad Paco promptly sent another one for free. Unfortunately the bike DID NOT look like advertised and definitely caught the police’s attention, therefore no way to go through Geneva’s traffic with this bike… controller hanging underneath,wires out and the battery in a cheap bag. Big disapointment.
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Here is what you should expect, even the cheap tires ( not MaXXis brand ) were worn out by poor storage

After 5km using the bike with pedal assist the first electric issue happened, once opening up the motor it seemed clear that the PAS was added afterwards and poorly designed as it would rip off the cables insulant while spinning. On top of it as I mentioned earlier all wires and connectors are of the cheapest quality you can get from Asia
IMG_0501low.jpg
My next issue came from over heating so I decided to open up the mechanical part to add some grease and change the gears from Nylon to metallic ones. They gave more torque for about two hours before that disaster happened…
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Original set // Stick with the nylon gears and extra grease otherwise the gears axles will break
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Another lovely experience, I had to send the motor and go through another hassle

I then received a non waterproofed motor / controller as replacement, by this time the cheap battery bag was ripped off and had already left the battery exposed to some damage
IMG_0833.JPG
After building a plywood / fiber glass / waterproof tape box in the frame( that's work ongoing just to give you an idea of how much the "stealth" aspect is gone ) and replacing all chinese cables I thought I could finally enjoy a ride….
IMG_0939.JPG
well count on the strenght of a 4kw motor to instantly destroy your basic gearing system quite regularly if you dont upgrade it to a stronger one.
IMG_0987.JPG
Oooh need to mention as well the cheap cheap rims that would break after driving DOWN a few curbs…. You don’t wanna try “Jumpin from a roof as they avertise this product…”



BTW Paco even sent me a picture of another set of controls from a different bike pretending to be working on mine that only has 9 gears just to add an extra confusion
STZC5267.JPG


And now the engine wont complete a full rotation cycle which means Hall Sensor problem, I got the first one fixed with a temporary cabling…. lasted about 15km before having the exact same hall sensor issue. I tried going through it so it is definitely gone, and I have sent the replacement one to Paco today, hoping the warranty will still work.

Nothing else fits on that frame so I am now watching a nice 4000USD sitting in my living room, no way to ride it, and even though Paco get me somthing once again I own something that can’t be taken to the streets in europe and that is not reliable enough to go trailing…

It goes around 60 , perhaps peaking for short burst around 70 but not 90 kmh, anyway with those brakes / tires / frame it would be suicide and the engine overheats at those speeds.

Overall a very good potential with plenty of fun WHEN it works… but unfortunately I can’t say this product has been a good experience
If you still go for this product pick the one without PAS and ask for waterproof connection by all means.

So far no issue with the battery / frame / suspensions.

I got a few videos in store but I'll upload a decent one once I get the new motor :flame:

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Re: cyclone 4000W Ebike DONT BUY IT

Post by Tommm » Nov 17 2018 9:27am

AlpinaEbiker wrote:
Nov 17 2018 7:37am

I got a few videos in store but I'll upload a decent one once I get the new motor :flame:
I don't know why they sell the complete bike. It should be frame set only with motor and controller. This much power with cheap components they put on it will be nothing but problems. Those of us who ordered the bike and have had success with it, only ordered frame set. You need to be very smart choosing components or it will end in disaster. I was lucky to pick up they have metal gears and ordered them.

Some advice:
There is massive space behind seat post, just use zip ties on the metal loops of the controller to mount it, with some soft material to make it quiet from vibration.
You need to change your battery cells on the bottom. If you see rust color or dents, it is a fire hazard. I dropped my battery by accident, took it to local battery builder/repair shop in my country, I provided 5 cells and they fixed it for $30.
The battery case you are making is a good start you need to pad it with material so the battery inside won't move (just like your battery bag bounced in the frame hurting it). Padding should be at least 1cm, compressed.
Advice in packing material: https://www.facebook.com/groups/endless ... 601456665/
The overheating happens from using it on too low gearing. You need to keep your RPM around 300 for the motor on low power, or 500 rpm on high power usage. Just fill in your info here and you will see the motor chainring rpm: http://www.bikecalc.com/speed_at_cadence
I can go all day at 60kph, at 500rpm, but it will cook in 5 minutes at 100rpm, doing the same 60kph speed, just with a different gearing. It is just the nature of the efficiency curve of the electric motor. In short, you should not use anything else than the biggest 2 cogs in your cassette! Only the biggest one off road! If you pedal and activate the motor at the same time, it will cook.
I suggest you disconnect the pas wire until you know what it does exactly. It is an on/off switch, so you will crash if you don't set a speed+power+soft start limit at the same time. The PAS function is useful, but only to use it with a hidden switch to make it road legal to show the cops. The hidden switch should also put it to low speed to comply with the 25kph speed limit. You sadly can't use pas for long journeys for this bike.
You can read more about the bike in this thread, maybe you can learn from some mistakes others did. https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=88921

What happened when you wrote disaster happened and opened gears after? Did you strip the gears?

How do you know it causes problems with police? Did they bother you about it?

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Skaiwerd   100 W

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Skaiwerd » Nov 17 2018 10:37pm

Sounds like a nightmare honestly. So many advantages of building one yourself. Glad in several years no police hastles for me.
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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by flat tire » Nov 18 2018 1:59am

Unless you're spinning backwards that tensioner is in the wrong place. It should be on the bottom.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Tommm » Nov 18 2018 7:13am

Skaiwerd wrote:
Nov 17 2018 10:37pm
Sounds like a nightmare honestly. So many advantages of building one yourself. Glad in several years no police hastles for me.
These utilitarian boxes are actually more stealthy than triangle boxes in the frame, these ones look like you are just carrying a toolbox. I'm thinking of making the bike more stealth by putting some well known brand stickers on my battery triangle, maybe some ride sharing or grocery store brand so they think it is a box.

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Skaiwerd   100 W

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Skaiwerd » Nov 18 2018 8:28am

Tommm

I’ve gotten some flack from friends and acquaintances about the plain battery box. They are just city artist types that think something plain and boring looking should be pretty-ed up as much as possible. I tell them most ebike battery boxes are black and plain and simple, so is mine, just rectangular and not a triangle in shape, I show them pictures of other bikes. The placement is where my legs are so that helps. They don’t know the importantance of staying low key with and ebike. Just one state away, New York, ebikes are illegal and get confiscated so being mostly ignored in country or city settings is great.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Skaiwerd » Nov 18 2018 9:17am

Flat tire

The chain tensioner is on the slack side. The chain is not tight and not under load as it is. Been working great for three years now. The only mishap is when I go out in pants and catch a pant leg in it and it gets bent out of alignment and won’t function. I manage to get home. A pivoting motor mount would be ideal and not have the tensioner at all.

AlpinaEbiker   1 µW

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Re: cyclone 4000W Ebike DONT BUY IT

Post by AlpinaEbiker » Nov 19 2018 5:51am

Tommm wrote:
Nov 17 2018 9:27am
AlpinaEbiker wrote:
Nov 17 2018 7:37am

What happened when you wrote disaster happened and opened gears after? Did you strip the gears?

How do you know it causes problems with police? Did they bother you about it?

I haven't seen the 3kw motor but from pics it seems the 4kw is of a similar design with much more torque, and if you replace the nylon gears by the metalic ones it will break the piece that holds them together instead of wearing them out. that's the "disaster" I'm pointing out on the pics. seems the axles of the 3 gears are welded onto this part instead of having it made from one solid bloc, but again at this price... so I sent the whole thing back to Paco.

I have a job that involves heavy hours so I wanted a ready to ride bike with the specs I mentioned earlier, therefore I logically thought (stupidly ? :roll: ) that if cyclone designs the motors they must sell you a fully mounted bike that holds their own product.

In addition no info on the PAS and as you mention it doesnt really work well.

As I live at the french / swiss border the regulations are a bit different and Geneva is now allowing ebikes with PAS only up to 50kmh or 30kmh in bike lanes which are everywhere... so basically I got a fair warning as they didnt stop me on the road itself but clearly they don't like to see something accelerating without PAS on the streets. the main brand around is stromer but daaamn it is expensive for a city ride. I will most likely pick something from vector ebike once I am done with this one ( unless you guys can recommand a perfect balance of PAS city ride and decent acceleration off road )

I never even tried jumping the slightest thing but just the vibrations from riding oof road are disconnecting those cheap cables one after the other. and I actually broke the back wheel driving down a 20cm sidewalk...

Remi812   10 mW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Remi812 » Nov 19 2018 10:51pm

flat tire wrote:
Nov 18 2018 1:59am
Unless you're spinning backwards that tensioner is in the wrong place. It should be on the bottom.
Nope, looks good to me !

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by flat tire » Nov 21 2018 9:10pm

Remi812 wrote:
Nov 19 2018 10:51pm
flat tire wrote:
Nov 18 2018 1:59am
Unless you're spinning backwards that tensioner is in the wrong place. It should be on the bottom.
Nope, looks good to me !
You're right my brain was spinning backwards.

DingusMcGee   10 kW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by DingusMcGee » Nov 23 2018 7:19am

Backwards? Forwards? Chain tensioner on wrong side?

I presume the chain tensioner is for the motor chain which runs from the motor cog to a chain ring mounted on the bottom bracket axle.

The most common mounting location for the Cyclone motor is in front of the BB and this puts the chain tensioner below a line between the motor axle and the BB axle.

Now, imagine rotating the motor frame and motor about the BB. Rotating the motor frame 180 degrees of counterclockwisewise rotation from the normal mounting aspect will put the motor in a location that is similar to where the motor is in the photo i.e. Between the down tube and the seat tube.

As the motor frame rotation moves the frame through this angle change the chain tensioner will also rotate to where it is on the high side of the line betweeen the motor shaft and the BB axle when the 180 degrees of rotation is achieved.

Gents: it looks to me like the chain tensioner is not on the power pulling side but just where it must be to work correctly -- for taking up the slack.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by khorse » Nov 26 2018 9:26pm

Any word on who's selling better motor mounts for the 3000 at the moment? Google brings me threads here for ones no longer sold, Luna doesn't have any in (and don't reply to questions about it)...

I used to think the standard mounts were fine, got used to seeing them twist a little bit. But I've been having problems with the motor freewheel slipping for no reason (not worn chain/freewheel) and eventually figured out what's going on. The flexing has gradually loosened up the bottom bracket lockrings, letting it twist more, until eventually it's flexing so much the chain detentions.

Now that's a real mess for me because my chain fell to bits when I took it off to investigate, and being in holland half links are hard to find. I need this bike for my job.

Taking every failure as an opportunity to upgrade to a stronger part.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Skaiwerd » Nov 27 2018 8:14am

I don’t think anyone is selling decent, proven cyclone mounts. Sick bike parts and Luna cycle have versions but they are untested and reviewed here in ES. Sick bikes looks like the standard mount that maybe just does not come in the kit. Luna’s looks promising just not my thing. I got my hands on one from LA ebike when he sold them. Seems his business is in a low spot now, think guys try to offer too much in the ebike industry. Could have survived on the mounts he offered. Very expensive at $99 + $50 to ship but it’s proveen to be the be best by myself. Doesn’t matter he no longer offers the mounts. Dingus McGee has posted a modification of the stock mount by placing some reinforcement at an angle to a bolt on the motor, others also have their versions.
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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by khorse » Nov 27 2018 5:18pm

That's a pain. Someone really needs to offer a cyclone kit kit. Basically a replacement for everything except the motor.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Tommm » Nov 27 2018 6:10pm

khorse wrote:
Nov 27 2018 5:18pm
That's a pain. Someone really needs to offer a cyclone kit kit. Basically a replacement for everything except the motor.
You don't need to replace everything, you can order just the motor. The controller is a standard yuyang king, but really anything can be put on it. I run a 80A yuyang king with the 4kw cyclone.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by sjrides » Nov 27 2018 8:44pm

I really wish a better mount option was still available :( It also seems like support for cyclone in general has been falling off. A few years ago Luna came out with a bunch of Cyclone products, but most are out of stock and it doesn't look like they are going to get more.

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