Dumsterdave wrote:on the cylcone website they sell 1 chainwheel, 2 chainwheel and 3 chainwheel kits...
What's the difference?
also, what is a decent programmable controller that i could use to reduce the power to about 750w?
Thanks for the detailed responserobocam wrote:I will be using the words "chainwheel" and "chainring" to mean the same thing.
The 1 chainwheel setup is where you have one chainring, and the motor turns the chain. Here's a video of what it looks like.
The 2 and 3 chainwheel setups are what most people use here (in this thread). This is where the motor drives the outer chainring while the inner chainring(s) drive the rear wheel.
You want 2 instead of 1 because it allows you to change the gear ratio by using different sized chainrings. For example, your motor can drive a 44 while a 32 drives the rear wheel. This allows torque multiplication.
You want 3 instead of 2 because then you can choose between 2 chainrings that drive the rear wheel (for the same reason you want 2 chainrings up front instead of 1 on a human-powered mountain bike). For example, you can have a 44 and a 32 to choose from while the motor drives a 44.
I have tried 2 and 3 chainwheel setups, and I think the best setup is a 2 chainwheel setup with a narrow-wide chainring driving the rear wheel. I recommend this because the chainline of a 2 chainwheel setup is not ideal. The chain is too far away from the center. This may result in the chain not being able to stay in the largest rear sprocket under high load and/or the chain falling off of the chainwheel.
If you do not want to take apart or modify the chainwheels, I would recommend getting a 3 chainwheel kit and use the inside chainring to drive the rear wheel. I have found that this puts the chain in a better place, reducing the instances of chain drop (chain falling off of chainwheel). I would recommend choosing the 44/44/32 for most applications.
Why do you want to reduce the power to 750W? Are you trying to make it street legal? In addition to the programmable controller that sather has recommended, you can also find a cheap 750W controller on eBay. Another way you can reduce the power is to use a Cycle Analyst V3. Although, keep in mind that some bikes may be labeled as 750W but they may actually peak at up to 1500W, so if you limit your bike to 750W, it may not feel as powerful as another 750W ebike from the store. The Cyclone's controller also has 3 speed settings that you can use to limit the performance of your bike. The 1st setting might provide you with what you're looking for depending on why you want to reduce the power.
Dumsterdave wrote:Thanks for the detailed response
I am putting this kit on a cargo trike that regularly has a total weight of over 200kg and it gets very unstable above 30km/hr. Figured that 3000w would be a bit much for the trike. I was unaware of the 3 speed settings and now i think that they would probably be fine. Im located in Denmark so my legal limit is actually only 250w, but the likelihood of being stopped by the police is quite low.
So, considering this is a heavy trike with a IGH and no front derailleur, would your 44/44/32 chainring recommendation still hold?
Ive also only messed around with hubs and rather small low discharge batteries. Could i run this on a 48v pack or will that simply not have enough Amps to power the motor? This trike will probably never go above 25 km/h and definitely will never hit 30 km/h.
robocam wrote:You're welcome!
I frequently tow 4 trailers for fun (I would estimate up to around 225 kg), and it is very easy to hit 25 km/h on flat ground. Do you have hills to climb?
The Cyclone 3000 doesn't actually put out 3000W (its 72V rating). At 48V, the power output is closer to around 2200W. If you're wanting to limit the power to protect your trike, I would probably just run it without any power limiting to see how the trike behaves (as long as you're ok with potential parts failures). I've never used an IGH before, so I can't really comment on that, but there are threads about those here. If you use the 3-speed switch, it will not change the power output. It only limits the speed of the motor, so if you want to protect the bike, the only way to do it is to reduce the power through the controller or by using a Cycle Analyst. I would probably recommend the controller Sather mentioned. You could drop the current down to 25A, which should be safe for most bike components, and you can drop it even lower too if you find that you don't need the power. Do you know what IGH you have or what gear ratios it has?
Since this is a trike, you won't need to worry about choosing a 2 or 3 chainring configuration based on your chainline because I assume the chain is very long, making this less of an issue. If I were using this on a slow cargo trike, I might get a 48/24 setup instead. This will allow the motor the option to run faster, making the setup more efficient, however this has the potential to send a lot of torque to the IGH. If you want to try different ratios, you might even want to get a 48/32/24, and you can move the chain between the 32 and 24 by hand. How many teeth does your current chainring have? Do you want to be able to pedal along with the motor? If you're buying this from Cyclone, you could even buy extra chainrings to experiment with. They're relatively inexpensive. For the outside ring, I have tried 48, 44, and 40T chainrings, and for the inside rings I have tried 24, 32, and 38T chainrings. If you ever have issues with the chain falling off the chainring, you could get a narrow-wide chainring.
If you've only experienced hub motors, you will be in for a very nice surprise =) The Cyclone 3000 is perfect for your application. If you're trying to decide between the different Cyclones, get the one this thread is about. It is much quieter than the smaller Cyclone, and it can handle more power and run longer without ever overheating.
The controller that comes with the Cyclone can draw up to 42A continuously, so ideally you will need a battery that has a BMS that will allow that and cells that are capable of sustaining that level of discharge current. Do you already have a battery? A weaker battery might work too because you're most likely not going to be at 42A that often, especially if you limit the power. If you already have a battery, I would just try it to see how it behaves.
Dumsterdave wrote:I do have a battery now, but according to the maker of the battery, It is capable of 36A output. It is a 13s4p pack made with samsung 29E cells. I am worried that it just doesnt put out enough power. I want to upgrade my battery, but i my wife would not be too thrilled with me if i were to go out and spend a thousand dollars on a battery right now. Will this kit work with my current battery?
https://www.nkon.nl/sk/k/29E.pdfDumsterdave wrote:I do have a battery now, but according to the maker of the battery, It is capable of 36A output. It is a 13s4p pack made with samsung 29E cells. I am worried that it just doesnt put out enough power. I want to upgrade my battery, but i my wife would not be too thrilled with me if i were to go out and spend a thousand dollars on a battery right now. Will this kit work with my current battery?
BTW I used a search engine and typed in "headline motor kv endless sphere"The "500 watt" motor has a Kv of approximately 125 rpm/v. As I recall the "350 watt" motor has a slightly higher Kv, maybe around 135 or 140.
minimum wrote:I took some time to partially disassemble newly arrived motor from 3-chainwheel kit. Here's pictures: