new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

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Skaiwerd
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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Skaiwerd » Feb 12, 2017 4:28 pm

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by CobraJet » Feb 12, 2017 7:18 pm

Thank You, I knew that there had to be something else! I surely do not see that in my box. Maybe it's stuck to something I will check.

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Hot Spot Motor Temperature and Thermistor Placement

Post by DingusMcGee » Feb 19, 2017 9:31 am

At zero RPM and full throttle the motor heats up very fast if you have the amps. From my burned out C-3000 motor the places of burned varnish on the copper wires was not everywhere equal. The copper coil heated excessively, where due to extra thermal resistance the heat could not escape as readily as those areas having no covering over the coils. Compare a couple of photos for the difference of varnish burn with more insulation above the copper coils:
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Notice the uncovered coil has no burned wire varnish while there was heavy burning under the zones where sheathed supply wires cover the copper coil ends.
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There also was heavier heating of copper coils under the Hall Sensor Circuit Board.
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The places that heat up the most are called hot spots in electric motor life enhancement. A web article on motor heating & hot spots says to allow some 10 C to 20 C below insulation ratings for such places when setting a temp limit shut off. I think this means that if you place a thermistor not at a hot spot set shutoff temp lower by that amount. The lowest motor insulation rating for some American motor standard is 130 C. I know the Cromotor is advertised to take temps to 125 C -- are these hot spots? I haven't taken the plates off my Cromotor to see where they have placed the thermistor.

Potentially there are at least two materials that can be destroyed due to motor over heating: The copper wire varnish and the magnetism of the perm magnets. The Curie Temperature is the temperature that magnets lose their magnetism. From Wiki I see this temp can be less than 100 C for some magnets. The magnets on my overheated motor were still good but I had no idea at what temp the motor magnets got when the varnish was burned. I decided to further test the magnets to know what temperatures they could withstand. First I put the rotor in boiling water and no change was noticed in magnetic strength. Next I put the lid on the pressure cooker and got the magnets up to 250F but they were still good.
mod IMG_6749.jpg
The C-3000 motor in the pressure cooker for lower limit Currie Temperature testing of the magnets.
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250F = 121C for the magnets but since on my once hot motor the magnets showed no weakening while the varnish burned I suspect the Curie Temp of the magnets exceeds the copper wire varnish insulation temp max. Let's hope the Cyclone 3000 motor insulation temp is as good as the lower American Standard which is 130 C. To exceed the insulation temp a little bit does not mean catastrophic failure but a much shortened operating life. They suggest for an over temp: ... In fact, every 10 C rise in operating temperature reduces insulation life by half. .. Up to the threshold and then sudden death??

It would seem best to place the thermistor on a hot spot but the big plastic covered Grin thermistor cannot fit in many likely hot spots. The very small Kelly thermistor will fit under some of copper wire coils next to the steel laminations while the covered Grin thermistor will only fit next to the inside of the motor case -- not exactly where the hot spots are. The winding embedded in the slot is almost always the hottest part,... See:

http://www.plantengineering.com/single- ... 7aed9.html

But it is not easy to get a thermistor in that place, so I put the small Kelly one under the Hall circuit board inside the copper wire loop.

Most interesting was the instant performance for this Kelly thermistor at this location: I set the Kelly Controller to a cutout temp of 96 C and recovery at 80 C. I set the CA V3 to the same temps. After riding 15 miles on smooth gravel [motor at about 30 C by Grin measurement] I got to a small patch of mud and proceeded thru what was mud with gravel. Soon the gravel got caught between the chain and sprockets and would locked the motor. Torque at zero rpm heats the motor quickly and on third gravel hangup the motor had no throttle response -- the Kelly temp cutout had kicked into too hot mode = 96C. To get out of this area [no trail] I had to ride up hill over wet dirt with clumps of grass which was a task the bike could not do for very long until overheating and stopping while then waiting for cooling. All this time the Grin thermistor was reading around 23 C. Once I got back to the gravel road the bike ran at 35 mph for 5 miles and no overheating shut down. On this section there were no instances of max torque at zero rpm. The Kelly controller does send a CAN BUS signal through it errors lights when motor temp reported by thermistor exceeds what you have set in the user program.

I have since moved my max temp allowable to 110C and recovery to 90C and realized the Grin Thermistor when covered in the OEM plastic sheath is worthless for this sensitive task.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by sather » Feb 19, 2017 8:07 pm

Thanks for the info. Do you plan to cut the plastic off the Grin thermister? What did you use to glue the thermisters in with? Grin recommends gluing their probe directly to the windings with epxoy.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by DingusMcGee » Feb 20, 2017 6:54 am

Sather,

I used JB Weld for the Grin which is epoxy based. If the Grin thermistor is glued with the sheath on the thermistor, it does not fit in any places likely to be a hot spot on the C-3000. As I found a somewhat snug fit for the Kelly thermistor under the copper wire loops I did not use any glue -- it seems to have very quick response but looking back I still may add some glue as the motor cover comes off very easily and gluing it may makes for better heat conduction and this gives the transient temps more accuracy in real time.

The Kelly thermistor was bare but I covered the leads with very small D heat shrink. The Grin thermistor sheath has to be removed if you want to measure higher frequency transient temperature jumps in real time at hot spots. Otherwise you like only get some kind of an average on temperature. I suspect one can carefully remove the Grin sheath down to the thermistor without damaging it leads. But, glue it with electrical non-conducting glue. You want a good heat conducting glue. I suspect that despite RTV Silicone can take very high temps, it has low heat conducting properties. Even though JB Weld touts steel it does not conduct current.

If you are seeking the hottest spots, motor engineers say, The winding embedded in the slot is almost always the hottest part. You may need a smaller thermistor than the Grin to fit one in these spaces. Having not cut the Grin sheath off I am uncertain as to their thermistors' actual size. The Grin CA can be adjusted for other thermistors. There are many sizes out there. But if you are not at a hot spot set the cutout temp some 20C lower than the max temp the thermal insulation can withstand. If you assume max insulation temp = 130 C then use 110 C for cutoff.

One Problem: No thermal insulation rating plate on these Taiwan motors. The 130 C max T is not for certain.

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Repacking LiPo's to close-in on your Controllers Max Voltage

Post by DingusMcGee » Feb 28, 2017 8:43 am

Lithium polymer cells of high amperage [16aH] from Hobby King are more economical when purchased during one of their sales but those modules sizes when added may not get a max voltage just under the controllers limit by less than one cell. I have opened up these modules and regrouped the cells to get as close as possible to the controllers max voltage limit. Of course this severing action voids the warranty so make sure you choose a fully working module for such reassembly knowing full well the warning label reads, Never disassemble or modify the battery in any way. The max voltage of the Cyclone 3000 OEM controller at nominal 72v is 84v as warrantied by Luna Cycles. To get the number of cells needed to reach this voltage we divide 84v / 4.2v = 20.00 cells. Hobby King sells the 16 Ah series in 6s and 4s strings when on sale for about $72.00. You get the best deal [watt hrs. /$] when buying the 6s 16aH modules for repacking. You will have 3 - 6s 16aH modules and 1- 2s 16aH modules for the 20 cell pack which hooked in series equals the desired 84 v.

These are some tools & materials that make the opening and repacking of the module safer:
mod IMG_6769.jpg
see description for this choice of tools
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The tools & materials:

1. Scissor with curved blades and blunt tips -- used for removing the existing heat shrink. Do not use an X-Acto Knife because the likely hood of puncturing the aluminum foil pouch is somewhat higher than when using the scissor.

2. High Wattage soldering iron. Here we see a Weller 250 watt. This big gun will heat up the 10 gauge silicone output wires very quickly and heat the pouches less than a 40 watt one would.

3. The hot glue gun with strong high-temp low moisture glue sticks is for standby in case you nick a hole in the aluminum pouch. If sealed immediately the pouch hole will let little or no moisture entry and the band aided pouch is likely still usable. Mark this cell and occasionally monitor with a heat temp gauge -- see item 4

4. The Fluke Temp Gauge is for measuring the pouch temps. All this solder gun heat work when done quickly will not make the pouch over 100 F near the cell terminal batt tab attachments when room temp is 72 F. With an unsealed pin hole the cell will gain mositure and oxygen and is likely to keep getting hotter. Dispose any cells that do not revert to room temp soon -- 20 min?. MONITOR such fixes.

5. The soldering paste/fux will make for better solder gun heat conduction and lessen oxidation at the solder/metal surface so you will get a quicker terminal wire attaching job. Do not use plumbers flux shown here for circuit board work as it can contaminate some board metals.

6. Some solder absorbing braided wire maybe useful as sometime the OEM output terminals have an abundance of solder.

7. Solder of say of 0.075" diameter rosin core lead free for terminal wire attachment.

8. Not shown 2" Scotch tape for binding the pouches before adding heat shrink.

9. Heat shrink wrap to fit over the pouches in 2 different wrapping axes and an adjustable temp heat gun.

10. Look Carefully -- Most of these tools are sitting on white sheet of 0.012" thick Nomex paper which is used both as the OEM insulation of the battery terminals and for some of the cushioning. Put some of this paper over the extra terminals the pouches now have.

After removing the OEM heat shrink and cushioning material a 6s 16aH module will look as if it has 12 cells but these pouches are folded and there is actually on 6 pouches.
mod IMG_6752.jpg
I have placed the pouches on a towel clear of any metal objects that may short circuit the cells.
During this repacking I wanted several 3s packs so the magic marker line down the middle is where the cellophane tape is cut to get that separation. You will have to heat the copper battery tabs with the soldering gun using flux at the connecting junction of the pouches under this center line to separate them.
mod IMG_6753.jpg
The module is separated into 2 pouch packs. You will have to cut the BMS wires at the plug. I cover the ends of them with hot glue until I add the JST plug.
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Reattaching the 10 ga wires to the battery terminals is the hardest soldering job on repacking the pouches so leave the 2 terminal wires attached to the battery tabs and disconnect one of the wires from the XT-90 plug which on this end is an easy re soldier.
mod IMG_6755.jpg
The terminals are both attached and one BMS wire is added.
The newly sized pouch is now ready for cushioning material, Nomex and the heat shrink materials are added.
mod IMG_6757.jpg
2 layers of heat shrink are covering each pouch group. They are over the 2 of 3 of the axix directions of the least perimeter.
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And last add the JST 2.5 XH 4-Pin Connector Plug with Wires to the BMS wires from the battery. These plugs can be found on eBay or Amazon. You have to get the BMS wires in the right order. When the plug's aligning ridges are up the negative terminal is on the right end and the voltage of the wires gets higher going from right to left.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Skaiwerd » Feb 28, 2017 3:39 pm

DingusMcgee

Intriguing indeed but this info needs a "don't try this at home" disclaimer. The 16ah 6s from hobby king are now at the normal price of $120 ea + hazardous goods shipping/no passanger plane shipping.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by DingusMcGee » Feb 28, 2017 5:25 pm

Skaiwerd ,

the task is simple if you are use to defusing bombs.

Wait a couple weeks and it could be back to $72.00 /6s 16aH pack -- I just bought 21 at $71.?? about 2 weeks ago. They were for my Zenn car battery.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by RageNR » Feb 28, 2017 6:05 pm

You guys still going at it in this thread?? :mrgreen:
I'm just here for page 77. I like 7's, ok?

On a serious note..
I've been riding my bike on and off for the last 3 months. It's my mode of transportation for now. Use it to go to the store every other week or so.
The freewheel on the motor keeps locking up on me randomly. Pretty much every ride.
Sometimes I have to kick the pedals a bit, but I've always been able to get it to free up.
Funny enough, the freewheel on the crank locked up 1 time way back when I first installed the kit. It has yet to do it again. And I even ordered the extra Dicta crank freewheel because it was advised. Someday I will need it I'm sure sure.

At some point I would like to get around to building my battery pack. Thinking along the lines of 24s7p.
Right now I do not have the funds. The rest of my plan for the bike will have to wait for a later time. I need it to get around, so the battery takes priority.

Anyhoot, just chiming in to say that I do use it some and it continues to make me smile like a buffoon every ride. :roll: :mrgreen:
MOVE IT YOU BI-PEDALING OBSTRUCTIONS!!!!!!! RAAAAGGGGGEEEEEEEEE
My Klein Mantra mid-drive Cyclone build thread: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=81052

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by CobraJet » Feb 28, 2017 6:43 pm

And I thought I got a good deal from HK @ $129/14S 10,000mah!

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Dumsterdave » Mar 13, 2017 8:27 am

on the cylcone website they sell 1 chainwheel, 2 chainwheel and 3 chainwheel kits...

What's the difference?

also, what is a decent programmable controller that i could use to reduce the power to about 750w?

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by sather » Mar 14, 2017 7:06 am

Programable controller
https://lunacycle.com/60-amp-36-72v-ebi ... ontroller/
Don't expect any technical support when programming it. "This controller is for advanced builders and comes with no documentation."

Cyclone chainrings
Example: 44 44 32T The first 44t large sprocket is driven by the motor. The next 44t sprocket drives the rear wheel. The next 32t smaller sprockt also drives the rear wheel and requires the use of a front derailleur.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by robocam » Mar 15, 2017 12:12 am

I will be using the words "chainwheel" and "chainring" to mean the same thing.

The 1 chainwheel setup is where you have one chainring, and the motor turns the chain. Here's a video of what it looks like.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asvE8AK7vQI

The 2 and 3 chainwheel setups are what most people use here (in this thread). This is where the motor drives the outer chainring while the inner chainring(s) drive the rear wheel.

You want 2 instead of 1 because it allows you to change the gear ratio by using different sized chainrings. For example, your motor can drive a 44 while a 32 drives the rear wheel. This allows torque multiplication.

You want 3 instead of 2 because then you can choose between 2 chainrings that drive the rear wheel (for the same reason you want 2 chainrings up front instead of 1 on a human-powered mountain bike). For example, you can have a 44 and a 32 to choose from while the motor drives a 44.

I have tried 2 and 3 chainwheel setups, and I think the best setup is a 2 chainwheel setup with a narrow-wide chainring driving the rear wheel. I recommend this because the chainline of a 2 chainwheel setup is not ideal. The chain is too far away from the center. This may result in the chain not being able to stay in the largest rear sprocket under high load and/or the chain falling off of the chainwheel.

If you do not want to take apart or modify the chainwheels, I would recommend getting a 3 chainwheel kit and use the inside chainring to drive the rear wheel. I have found that this puts the chain in a better place, reducing the instances of chain drop (chain falling off of chainwheel). I would recommend choosing the 44/44/32 for most applications.

Why do you want to reduce the power to 750W? Are you trying to make it street legal? In addition to the programmable controller that sather has recommended, you can also find a cheap 750W controller on eBay. Another way you can reduce the power is to use a Cycle Analyst V3. Although, keep in mind that some bikes may be labeled as 750W but they may actually peak at up to 1500W, so if you limit your bike to 750W, it may not feel as powerful as another 750W ebike from the store. The Cyclone's controller also has 3 speed settings that you can use to limit the performance of your bike. The 1st setting might provide you with what you're looking for depending on why you want to reduce the power.
Dumsterdave wrote:on the cylcone website they sell 1 chainwheel, 2 chainwheel and 3 chainwheel kits...

What's the difference?

also, what is a decent programmable controller that i could use to reduce the power to about 750w?

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Dumsterdave » Mar 15, 2017 11:39 am

robocam wrote:I will be using the words "chainwheel" and "chainring" to mean the same thing.

The 1 chainwheel setup is where you have one chainring, and the motor turns the chain. Here's a video of what it looks like.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asvE8AK7vQI

The 2 and 3 chainwheel setups are what most people use here (in this thread). This is where the motor drives the outer chainring while the inner chainring(s) drive the rear wheel.

You want 2 instead of 1 because it allows you to change the gear ratio by using different sized chainrings. For example, your motor can drive a 44 while a 32 drives the rear wheel. This allows torque multiplication.

You want 3 instead of 2 because then you can choose between 2 chainrings that drive the rear wheel (for the same reason you want 2 chainrings up front instead of 1 on a human-powered mountain bike). For example, you can have a 44 and a 32 to choose from while the motor drives a 44.

I have tried 2 and 3 chainwheel setups, and I think the best setup is a 2 chainwheel setup with a narrow-wide chainring driving the rear wheel. I recommend this because the chainline of a 2 chainwheel setup is not ideal. The chain is too far away from the center. This may result in the chain not being able to stay in the largest rear sprocket under high load and/or the chain falling off of the chainwheel.

If you do not want to take apart or modify the chainwheels, I would recommend getting a 3 chainwheel kit and use the inside chainring to drive the rear wheel. I have found that this puts the chain in a better place, reducing the instances of chain drop (chain falling off of chainwheel). I would recommend choosing the 44/44/32 for most applications.

Why do you want to reduce the power to 750W? Are you trying to make it street legal? In addition to the programmable controller that sather has recommended, you can also find a cheap 750W controller on eBay. Another way you can reduce the power is to use a Cycle Analyst V3. Although, keep in mind that some bikes may be labeled as 750W but they may actually peak at up to 1500W, so if you limit your bike to 750W, it may not feel as powerful as another 750W ebike from the store. The Cyclone's controller also has 3 speed settings that you can use to limit the performance of your bike. The 1st setting might provide you with what you're looking for depending on why you want to reduce the power.
Thanks for the detailed response

I am putting this kit on a cargo trike that regularly has a total weight of over 200kg and it gets very unstable above 30km/hr. Figured that 3000w would be a bit much for the trike. I was unaware of the 3 speed settings and now i think that they would probably be fine. Im located in Denmark so my legal limit is actually only 250w, but the likelihood of being stopped by the police is quite low.

So, considering this is a heavy trike with a IGH and no front derailleur, would your 44/44/32 chainring recommendation still hold?

Ive also only messed around with hubs and rather small low discharge batteries. Could i run this on a 48v pack or will that simply not have enough Amps to power the motor? This trike will probably never go above 25 km/h and definitely will never hit 30 km/h.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by robocam » Mar 15, 2017 2:12 pm

You're welcome!

I frequently tow 4 trailers for fun (I would estimate up to around 225 kg), and it is very easy to hit 25 km/h on flat ground. Do you have hills to climb?

The Cyclone 3000 doesn't actually put out 3000W (its 72V rating). At 48V, the power output is closer to around 2200W. If you're wanting to limit the power to protect your trike, I would probably just run it without any power limiting to see how the trike behaves (as long as you're ok with potential parts failures). I've never used an IGH before, so I can't really comment on that, but there are threads about those here. If you use the 3-speed switch, it will not change the power output. It only limits the speed of the motor, so if you want to protect the bike, the only way to do it is to reduce the power through the controller or by using a Cycle Analyst. I would probably recommend the controller Sather mentioned. You could drop the current down to 25A, which should be safe for most bike components, and you can drop it even lower too if you find that you don't need the power. Do you know what IGH you have or what gear ratios it has?

Since this is a trike, you won't need to worry about choosing a 2 or 3 chainring configuration based on your chainline because I assume the chain is very long, making this less of an issue. If I were using this on a slow cargo trike, I might get a 48/24 setup instead. This will allow the motor the option to run faster, making the setup more efficient, however this has the potential to send a lot of torque to the IGH. If you want to try different ratios, you might even want to get a 48/32/24, and you can move the chain between the 32 and 24 by hand. How many teeth does your current chainring have? Do you want to be able to pedal along with the motor? If you're buying this from Cyclone, you could even buy extra chainrings to experiment with. They're relatively inexpensive. For the outside ring, I have tried 48, 44, and 40T chainrings, and for the inside rings I have tried 24, 32, and 38T chainrings. If you ever have issues with the chain falling off the chainring, you could get a narrow-wide chainring.

If you've only experienced hub motors, you will be in for a very nice surprise =) The Cyclone 3000 is perfect for your application. If you're trying to decide between the different Cyclones, get the one this thread is about. It is much quieter than the smaller Cyclone, and it can handle more power and run longer without ever overheating.

The controller that comes with the Cyclone can draw up to 42A continuously, so ideally you will need a battery that has a BMS that will allow that and cells that are capable of sustaining that level of discharge current. Do you already have a battery? A weaker battery might work too because you're most likely not going to be at 42A that often, especially if you limit the power. If you already have a battery, I would just try it to see how it behaves.
Dumsterdave wrote:Thanks for the detailed response

I am putting this kit on a cargo trike that regularly has a total weight of over 200kg and it gets very unstable above 30km/hr. Figured that 3000w would be a bit much for the trike. I was unaware of the 3 speed settings and now i think that they would probably be fine. Im located in Denmark so my legal limit is actually only 250w, but the likelihood of being stopped by the police is quite low.

So, considering this is a heavy trike with a IGH and no front derailleur, would your 44/44/32 chainring recommendation still hold?

Ive also only messed around with hubs and rather small low discharge batteries. Could i run this on a 48v pack or will that simply not have enough Amps to power the motor? This trike will probably never go above 25 km/h and definitely will never hit 30 km/h.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Dumsterdave » Mar 16, 2017 8:09 am

I do have a battery now, but according to the maker of the battery, It is capable of 36A output. It is a 13s4p pack made with samsung 29E cells. I am worried that it just doesnt put out enough power. I want to upgrade my battery, but i my wife would not be too thrilled with me if i were to go out and spend a thousand dollars on a battery right now. Will this kit work with my current battery?
robocam wrote:You're welcome!

I frequently tow 4 trailers for fun (I would estimate up to around 225 kg), and it is very easy to hit 25 km/h on flat ground. Do you have hills to climb?

The Cyclone 3000 doesn't actually put out 3000W (its 72V rating). At 48V, the power output is closer to around 2200W. If you're wanting to limit the power to protect your trike, I would probably just run it without any power limiting to see how the trike behaves (as long as you're ok with potential parts failures). I've never used an IGH before, so I can't really comment on that, but there are threads about those here. If you use the 3-speed switch, it will not change the power output. It only limits the speed of the motor, so if you want to protect the bike, the only way to do it is to reduce the power through the controller or by using a Cycle Analyst. I would probably recommend the controller Sather mentioned. You could drop the current down to 25A, which should be safe for most bike components, and you can drop it even lower too if you find that you don't need the power. Do you know what IGH you have or what gear ratios it has?

Since this is a trike, you won't need to worry about choosing a 2 or 3 chainring configuration based on your chainline because I assume the chain is very long, making this less of an issue. If I were using this on a slow cargo trike, I might get a 48/24 setup instead. This will allow the motor the option to run faster, making the setup more efficient, however this has the potential to send a lot of torque to the IGH. If you want to try different ratios, you might even want to get a 48/32/24, and you can move the chain between the 32 and 24 by hand. How many teeth does your current chainring have? Do you want to be able to pedal along with the motor? If you're buying this from Cyclone, you could even buy extra chainrings to experiment with. They're relatively inexpensive. For the outside ring, I have tried 48, 44, and 40T chainrings, and for the inside rings I have tried 24, 32, and 38T chainrings. If you ever have issues with the chain falling off the chainring, you could get a narrow-wide chainring.

If you've only experienced hub motors, you will be in for a very nice surprise =) The Cyclone 3000 is perfect for your application. If you're trying to decide between the different Cyclones, get the one this thread is about. It is much quieter than the smaller Cyclone, and it can handle more power and run longer without ever overheating.

The controller that comes with the Cyclone can draw up to 42A continuously, so ideally you will need a battery that has a BMS that will allow that and cells that are capable of sustaining that level of discharge current. Do you already have a battery? A weaker battery might work too because you're most likely not going to be at 42A that often, especially if you limit the power. If you already have a battery, I would just try it to see how it behaves.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by robocam » Mar 16, 2017 11:38 am

I think you'll be fine with that battery. Do you know what current the BMS is rated at?
Dumsterdave wrote:I do have a battery now, but according to the maker of the battery, It is capable of 36A output. It is a 13s4p pack made with samsung 29E cells. I am worried that it just doesnt put out enough power. I want to upgrade my battery, but i my wife would not be too thrilled with me if i were to go out and spend a thousand dollars on a battery right now. Will this kit work with my current battery?

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Janis » Mar 17, 2017 4:57 am

Dumsterdave wrote:I do have a battery now, but according to the maker of the battery, It is capable of 36A output. It is a 13s4p pack made with samsung 29E cells. I am worried that it just doesnt put out enough power. I want to upgrade my battery, but i my wife would not be too thrilled with me if i were to go out and spend a thousand dollars on a battery right now. Will this kit work with my current battery?
https://www.nkon.nl/sk/k/29E.pdf

It's too weak battery for cyclone. 29E cell continuous discharge is only 2.75A and max 8.25A so 4p = 11A and 33A
It might work ok if current is limited to ~20A

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Timbe72 » Mar 22, 2017 5:05 am

Hello guys,

I'm considering to build my next project with Cyclone.

Now i'm wondering about Cyclones max. electrical rpm..can you help me.

So how much is Cyclones actually "kv" ?
I guess gear ratio is about 1:5? I'm i right?

Max. speed is 900 rpm?

My speed of the target is about 50-60 km/h.

I'm planning to use 18650 cells, 14-20s, so i need some controller with Cyclone, how about those sinewaves from Grin, does those having e-rpm enough?: http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicy ... llers.html

Thanks

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by markz » Mar 22, 2017 5:09 am

They use Headline motors. Thats all I know, got that tid bit from Spinning Magnets post.
This is a random thread I found.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... story=true
The "500 watt" motor has a Kv of approximately 125 rpm/v. As I recall the "350 watt" motor has a slightly higher Kv, maybe around 135 or 140.
BTW I used a search engine and typed in "headline motor kv endless sphere"

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by spinningmagnets » Mar 22, 2017 5:39 am

The Headline motor kit from Cyclone has 8 magnets and 12 poles on the stator, so a controller needs to support an E-RPM of six pole-pairs.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 16&t=62589

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by minimum » Mar 23, 2017 1:10 am

I took some time to partially disassemble newly arrived motor from 3-chainwheel kit. Here's pictures:
20170323_071558.jpg
Front
20170323_071611.jpg
Top
20170323_071637.jpg
Bottom
20170323_071623.jpg
Back
20170323_071811.jpg
Wire grommet
20170323_071818.jpg
grommet 2

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by minimum » Mar 23, 2017 1:17 am

Sun- and ring gear are steel, planetary gears nylon.
I couldn't get the back plate from motor off with tools available. By the look of grommet and it's placement, will have to take it apart anyway to make it waterproof and to add temp. sensor.
20170323_072453.jpg
Gears
20170323_072504.jpg
20170323_074356.jpg
Controller top
20170323_074422.jpg
Controller FET side
Controllers wire exit from grommet and screws are covered with silicone or some transparent flexible glue. End seals are black foam polyurethane by the looks of it. PCB inside is roughly 140x65x30+ mm.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by robocam » Mar 23, 2017 2:08 am

Thanks for posting these. Where did you buy the kit from? Do you have calipers? I was wondering if you could measure the thickness of both mounting plates. The nondrive side plate looks really thin. This seems to be a vastly superior mount compared to the previous design, however you'd have to order different brackets for different bottom bracket widths.

Did you order the kit for a 68mm bottom bracket width?

This reminds me of Dogboy's design.

Image

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 0#p1205214
minimum wrote:I took some time to partially disassemble newly arrived motor from 3-chainwheel kit. Here's pictures:
...

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by minimum » Mar 23, 2017 2:59 am

Bought straight from Cyclone; 68mm 3-chainwheel kit.
Drive side is 5mm aluminum, left-/backside supporting bracket is 2mm steel.
I'm guessing wider BB widths are achieved with different bending angles for supporting bracket.
From surface finish I'd say brackets are lasercut; with hole connecting to BB re-machined for precise fit and smooth surface finish.

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