new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

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Tommm   1 kW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Tommm » Dec 06 2018 3:58pm

I hope you changed that battery/cells that showed rubbing and possibly dents on the bottom as it is a fire hazard in that state. The elite bike should be sold as a frame only and for advanced builders.

Smoke   100 W

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Smoke » Dec 07 2018 3:25am

Grantmac wrote:
Dec 05 2018 3:25pm
I too am interested a 11t non freewheeling sprocket, I figure if the batteries die I can just remove the primary chain.
In theory with a 3spd fixie IGH you could run regen with the cranks freewheeling.
I got my motor a few days ago. Spinning the sprocket by hand, I'm not sure if the fixed sprocket would work because it seemed quite difficult to turn.

I plan to use it primarily in pedal assist mode which should be fine and allow regen if I have a fixed sprocket but if my battery dies it might create too much drag to pedal.

It might not be a big issue because my battery will be about 1.9kwh, I would have to ride pretty far before the battery dies. Worst case I would have to re-route my chain and shorten it to bypass the motor before I could ride home.

Before I worry about that I have to get pedal assist working right so I'll worry about that first and try a fixed sprocket after PAS is working just right.

As far as reliability goes, I'm going to use no deraileurs, my chain line will never change and hopefully my chain will never want to leave it. As long as I can keep the motor happy, I'm not expecting any issues because I'm not using any other Cyclone kit parts.
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Grantmac   1 kW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Grantmac » Dec 07 2018 10:36am

Should I run out of battery I'd just remove the primary chain.
I agree that pedaling through the motor would be extremely tiring, then again I'm trying to build a bike I can pedal along with but always running at least a little assist.

khorse   1 mW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by khorse » Dec 08 2018 10:24pm

So after finally getting a replacement half link chain here in the netherlands, where nobody sells them, I've put my motor kit back together and it's still slipping under even light acceleration.

I can't figure it out. At first I thought the chain was worn out, because it broke when I took it off. But then I noticed the motor mounts were loose, and figured that was the problem. The motor freewheel has no measurable wear on it and engages as it should when I hold it in my hand. If I lift the back wheel there's no slipping, only when I'm riding it.

The only thing I can think is either the motor freewheel's pawls are worn out and slipping, or the gearbox is. I'm going to try replacing the motor freewheel first.

The only problem is I don't know what to order. I can get the freewheel and it's adapter off the motor, but not separate them. Cyclone-TW sells the complete assembly together in two versions, CW14T and CCW14T but don't explain the difference.

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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Chalo » Dec 08 2018 10:31pm

khorse wrote:
Dec 08 2018 10:24pm
So after finally getting a replacement half link chain here in the netherlands, where nobody sells them, I've put my motor kit back together and it's still slipping under even light acceleration.
If your old chain was worn and elongated, then the chain in turn wore out your sprockets. Worn sprockets will misbehave even with a brand new chain.

Putting much greater than human power through a pedal drive system causes the components to wear much faster than normal. You can mitigate it somewhat by using the largest sprockets possible both front and rear.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

Tommm   1 kW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Tommm » Dec 09 2018 12:03am

Yea, somehow my smaller 11-28 steel cassette cogs got worn even by a chain that disintegrated after 500km (didn't even stretch to .75, just kept ripping). The smaller cogs I barely used are skipping with a fresh chain, but the bigger 32-50t cogs on the same cassette are fine. Even though I used them a lot more, I guess the stress is better distributed. Seems like the best way to go about it is buy 3 chains for 1 set of cogs front and rear and rotate them so they all wear evenly.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by khorse » Dec 09 2018 1:37am

Chalo wrote:
Dec 08 2018 10:31pm
khorse wrote:
Dec 08 2018 10:24pm
So after finally getting a replacement half link chain here in the netherlands, where nobody sells them, I've put my motor kit back together and it's still slipping under even light acceleration.
If your old chain was worn and elongated, then the chain in turn wore out your sprockets. Worn sprockets will misbehave even with a brand new chain.

Putting much greater than human power through a pedal drive system causes the components to wear much faster than normal. You can mitigate it somewhat by using the largest sprockets possible both front and rear.
I'm well aware of this, I used to earn a living fixing bikes. This is why I have to repeat that I checked the motor freewheel, it isn't worn. Worn teeth are easily visible.

In the end it's turned out that the 14t cog on the cassette was the culprit. I'd originally dismissed it being a problem in the bicycle side of the drivetrain because I'd only been using that cog for all of 8 hours total riding. (I don't have a shifter cable fitted, I'd originally ran on the middle cog but changed it as an experiment)

I suppose that says something about the quality of this cassette!

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Chalo   100 GW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Chalo » Dec 09 2018 12:43pm

What was the nature of the damage? Normal wear, bent teeth impinging on its neighbors, or something else?

I got a 14t outer position sprocket for my BBS02 bike. I would use a bigger outer sprocket if I could get my hands on one, because 46/14 is too high a ratio to be of use to me.
This is to express my gratitude to Justin of Grin Technologies for his extraordinary measures to save this forum for the benefit of all.

khorse   1 mW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by khorse » Dec 09 2018 3:06pm

Other than that it's happened in an extremely short amount of time, it's just normal wear. The bike chain still measures up as being brand new. I can only guess that it's just a very soft metal, which is surprising because it's a proper shimano part.

MarkLeeds   1 W

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by MarkLeeds » Dec 11 2018 7:04pm

Just posted a build thread entitled Specialized Enduro 2014 Cyclone 3000 build in E-Bike Build Threads / Photos & Video.

I included a brief description, pictures and a link to a video. Thanks very much to everyone for all your contributions - couldn't have done it without you.

Image

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by ebike11 » Dec 30 2018 9:50am

Hi guys
What is the maximum voltage you are running with the stock controller that came with the cyclone?
Rated 36-72V, but wondering if anyone has pushed it beyond 72V??

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Tommm » Jan 01 2019 4:33am

ebike11 wrote:
Dec 30 2018 9:50am
Hi guys
What is the maximum voltage you are running with the stock controller that came with the cyclone?
Rated 36-72V, but wondering if anyone has pushed it beyond 72V??
Caps are 80v on older ones, 100v on new ones. So no point pushing it past 72v nominal which will be 84v max already.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by DingusMcGee » Jan 01 2019 8:23am

Tommm,
Caps are 80v on older ones, 100v on new ones. So no point pushing it past 72v nominal which will be 84v max already.
The opening page of the emotor program when used on the programmable controllers displays 87 volts as 100%. When running my C4000 at 100volts which is full charge, the emotor program displays voltage at 118%. But my latest C3000 kit purchase, coming with the motor equipped with a water proof plug and stock controller, when hooked to 100volts will not move but shows the voltage at 118%. Is this a safety feature imposed by the throttle or the controller?

The controller labeled as HD or 60 amps along with an unknown throttle does run one of my C3000 builds at 100v all the time. Jim of SBP says he will find out from Cyclone which set up of controller & throttle to use on the 3000 motor to operate at 100 v.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Electricglider » Jan 03 2019 1:23pm

Hi guys

I am about to order a cyclone kit, and as the websites that sells them have minimal info, I was wondering if somebody could tell me what is needed exactly. Preferable with links. I have read all posts in this thread, but could still use some guidance. I am used to custom builds, but not mid motors. The bike is ready, I only need help with the motor setup.

I have a 25Ah 72v battery allready and was planning to use a 48t cranck wheel. What else should I get?
The 25kmt limited PAS is very interesting, but maybe I will use a CA3 instead.
I have read that the freewheel should be HD?
Budget about 650$, but you never know, right......
All inputs are appreciated. :bigthumb:

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Smoke » Jan 03 2019 1:51pm

If you are handy and not afraid of doing a little fabrication, get the kit, probably the ISIS bottom bracket and crank arms and then sort out the brackets, freewheels, idlers, etc. as you find issues or break stuff.

There is a new kit from another manufacturer that looks promising and a bit more polished but more expensive too. There is a thread on it and the first units should be arriving soon, look at that one to see how they go together before you buy, I have a feeling that they might be a better drop in setup and Cyclone will remain the budget 3kw champ (for now).

Some times a little more up front works out better unless you like a project.
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Grantmac   1 kW

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Grantmac » Jan 03 2019 3:29pm

The manufacturer of the other kit (CYC) told me they will be offering an upgraded cyclone priced between the two this spring.
I have a standard cyclone which is definitely a "developer" kit. The ISIS cranks are mandatory but everything else can be fixed as needed.

What bike is it going on?

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Electricglider » Jan 03 2019 3:54pm

Thanks guys, good that I did not pull the trigger then.
How about a link to this mystery kit/thread? Never mind, wow, sexy it is!!

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Electricglider » Jan 04 2019 2:45am

Well, ok. It will no be a Cyclone this time. Thanks for the heads up.
But I got a pic on the new Cyclone comming in mid Jan.
It looks very promising.
Attachments
New Cyclone.jpg
New Cyclone.jpg (24.58 KiB) Viewed 1035 times

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Tommm » Jan 06 2019 11:12am

Electricglider wrote:
Jan 04 2019 2:45am
Well, ok. It will no be a Cyclone this time. Thanks for the heads up.
But I got a pic on the new Cyclone comming in mid Jan.
It looks very promising.
Got any specs? Looks like the 3kw with (finally) a proper mount.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Electricglider » Jan 07 2019 12:30am

Tommm wrote:
Jan 06 2019 11:12am
Electricglider wrote:
Jan 04 2019 2:45am
Well, ok. It will no be a Cyclone this time. Thanks for the heads up.
But I got a pic on the new Cyclone comming in mid Jan.
It looks very promising.
Got any specs? Looks like the 3kw with (finally) a proper mount.
No specs, but they are very informative in their FB chat https://www.facebook.com/CYCMOTORLTD/

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Grantmac » Jan 08 2019 12:52am

Does anyone know which wires to jumper for maximum RPM on the newer Cyclone controllers which don't have a purple wire?
Tried black with white to ground and that slowed it. Tried blue to ground and it won't run.
Black with white to blue runs normal speed.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by ryanf55 » Jan 16 2019 12:14am

Tommm wrote:
Oct 17 2018 6:59am
ryanf55 wrote:
Oct 03 2018 12:15am
That's easy:)

So I got the replacement throttle hall sensor working. Had to use an Arduino to invert the signal, but it works alright. For whatever reason, the new sensor is very jittery, and makes the throttle jump around a bunch, so I implemented some mediocre filtering. Also, the controller is sending 4.5V out to the sensor, which prohibits a 5V arduino from being used!
In the same boat. Got a new sensor (leg broke off old one) range of signal is even more compressed. "Adjust accelerator curve" setting is good to keep it usable. First and last third is dead. Since the controller does send out 4.5v instead of 5v, thinking of sourcing the 5v from somewhere else. In the documentation it says throttle is from 1v to 4v, very perplexed as the sensor should do (1v to (source voltage-1v)), so (1v to 3.5v), which is not the case.
I used a 3.3V arduino with the 4.5V line as RAW input. The controller still reaches max speed at 3.3V signal from arduino. I also have the jumpers on the motor set to high RPM, so there is a chance it isn't 100% speed, but it seems close enough.

Here the latest picture of my display. I still need to figure out the serial interface on the controller to read all the sensors, add torque sensing, cadence sensing, and electronic shifting. If there are any electrical engineers out there or software engineers willing to help, please let me know! Right now, I just reverse engineered the half twist throttle, made it more ergonomic, and moved the display and key ignition to over the stem.
SW1.JPG
SW2.JPG
Attachments
disp1.png
sensor1.png

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Grantmac » Jan 21 2019 1:40pm

Can anyone walk me through the inputs to run this motor through the ebike simulator? I want to play with gear ratios.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by DingusMcGee » Jan 29 2019 7:30am

Luna Cycle has another controller for the C3000 rated at 4000w with. FOC sinewave output to motor. $200.

See: https://lunacycle.com/asi-bac-800-contr ... v-version/


Has anyone tried the ASI BAC 800 72v. Controller?

Note also: Made in Canada

I see the 800 is not yet available.

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Re: new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

Post by Tommm » Jan 29 2019 12:18pm

DingusMcGee wrote:
Jan 29 2019 7:30am
Luna Cycle has another controller for the C3000 rated at 4000w with. FOC sinewave output to motor. $200.

See: https://lunacycle.com/asi-bac-800-contr ... v-version/


Has anyone tried the ASI BAC 800 72v. Controller?

Note also: Made in Canada

I see the 800 is not yet available.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 0#p1377962

Looks like a half-assed product.

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