Dave's 80:1 RC mid drive kit build log

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lightrush   10 W

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Re: Dave's 80:1 RC mid drive kit build log

Post by lightrush » Apr 14 2016 1:59pm

There's the new version of the 40:1 transmission that should be a bit quieter. I have it in my possession but I haven't had time to complete the build. Once I do, I will record some video/sound samples.
Last edited by lightrush on Apr 14 2016 2:05pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Whiplash   100 MW

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Re: Dave's 80:1 RC mid drive kit build log

Post by Whiplash » Apr 14 2016 2:02pm

Oh cool! Can't wait to see it!
Power is a fascinating thing, the more you have, the more you want, but the real power is having the restraint not to use it all at once...............Um...Yeah..

The harder you work.....The luckier you get!!

"People who say it can't be done are often interrupted by those that have already figured out how to do it!"

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Re: Dave's 80:1 RC mid drive kit build log

Post by izeman » Apr 15 2016 2:39am

Whiplash wrote:Oh cool! Can't wait to see it!
the sound comes from the gearbox. you can't get rid of it. if you want silence you need gearless motors :)
some like the noise - which reminds me of a small 2-stroke ice, but i prefer super silent electric motion - for the moment. this can change anytime ..

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Re: Dave's 80:1 RC mid drive kit build log

Post by Wheazel » Apr 15 2016 7:04am

If this setup could be silent, it would be the best drive for almost any ebike application in my opinion.
Now I am usung direct drive middrives or dd hubs to keep the noiselevel down, which to me has become one of the most appealing points with ebiking.
Regardless, this drive is an engineering masterpiece in my book and I love to follow the progress.

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Re: Dave's 80:1 RC mid drive kit build log

Post by izeman » Apr 15 2016 8:05am

Wheazel wrote:Regardless, this drive is an engineering masterpiece in my book and I love to follow the progress.
+1. probably the best looking kit you can buy. if the gears hold up (which they seem) this is a hell of a system.

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Whiplash   100 MW

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Re: Dave's 80:1 RC mid drive kit build log

Post by Whiplash » Apr 15 2016 8:09am

Yes, I went the polar opposite of the ebike and got a motoped, and it is really fun but VERY limited as to where you can ride. Most see it as a motorcycle and get very upset if you are on their trails! I'm selling it now to get a nice middrive fatbike, I think that is the epidomy of single track ebike machinery! I want to go full out with a carbon fattie around 25lbs, then add a light drive like this or the BBSHD if I have to and enough battery to go for a couple hours at least into the goat trails out here, its beautiful terrain but very steep and rocky so you need huge torque and fat tires for comfort :-)
Power is a fascinating thing, the more you have, the more you want, but the real power is having the restraint not to use it all at once...............Um...Yeah..

The harder you work.....The luckier you get!!

"People who say it can't be done are often interrupted by those that have already figured out how to do it!"

Email me @ currentcycles@gmail.com
OR check out http://www.CurrentCycles.net

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Re: Dave's 80:1 RC mid drive kit build log

Post by FastJohnny » Apr 15 2016 9:24am

Whiplash wrote:Yes, I went the polar opposite of the ebike and got a motoped, and it is really fun but VERY limited as to where you can ride. Most see it as a motorcycle and get very upset if you are on their trails! I'm selling it now to get a nice middrive fatbike, I think that is the epidomy of single track ebike machinery! I want to go full out with a carbon fattie around 25lbs, then add a light drive like this or the BBSHD if I have to and enough battery to go for a couple hours at least into the goat trails out here, its beautiful terrain but very steep and rocky so you need huge torque and fat tires for comfort :-)
:) :) :)

ImageImage

It's a "Goat-Worthy" build..

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Whiplash   100 MW

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Re: Dave's 80:1 RC mid drive kit build log

Post by Whiplash » Apr 15 2016 9:40am

Awesome! Do you have a link to the build?
Power is a fascinating thing, the more you have, the more you want, but the real power is having the restraint not to use it all at once...............Um...Yeah..

The harder you work.....The luckier you get!!

"People who say it can't be done are often interrupted by those that have already figured out how to do it!"

Email me @ currentcycles@gmail.com
OR check out http://www.CurrentCycles.net


lightrush   10 W

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Re: Dave's 80:1 RC mid drive kit build log

Post by lightrush » Apr 15 2016 2:47pm

Wheazel wrote:If this setup could be silent, it would be the best drive for almost any ebike application in my opinion.
Now I am usung direct drive middrives or dd hubs to keep the noiselevel down, which to me has become one of the most appealing points with ebiking.
Regardless, this drive is an engineering masterpiece in my book and I love to follow the progress.
That's precisely why I went for it. I was going to buy a BBS02, but then when I compared the two - 750W in 4.2kg vs 2000W in 3kg... Even if you only want 750W, or even less - set the power limit in the Cycle Analyst and it's still worth it for the weight and durability.

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Re: Dave's 80:1 RC mid drive kit build log

Post by tomtom » Apr 20 2016 12:18pm

Hi,

I just want to ask. Which rear hubs you guys use? I have pathetic 500W bosch middrive and i just cannot find hub /142x12/ which can hold torque. I keep stripping pawls in freehub. /third this season/ I have 42t sprocket on rear - so torque is proportionally larger and im heavy but even so... Which freehub can hold 2000w?

many thanks

Tomas

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joostj   100 W

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Re: Dave's 80:1 RC mid drive kit build log

Post by joostj » Apr 20 2016 1:56pm

I just want to ask. Which rear hubs you guys use? I have pathetic 500W bosch middrive and i just cannot find hub /142x12/ which can hold torque. I keep stripping pawls in freehub. /third this season/ I have 42t sprocket on rear - so torque is proportionally larger and im heavy but even so... Which freehub can hold 2000w?
My hope pro 4 has been holding up good so far at 5000w

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tangentdave   1 kW

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Re: Dave's 80:1 RC mid drive kit build log

Post by tangentdave » Apr 20 2016 2:10pm

Same here. Hope Pro II, Chris King, Rohloff all hold the power fine. The cheap, stock Shimano freehub on my road bike failed almost immediately but the replacement held up fine.
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Re: Dave's 80:1 RC mid drive kit build log

Post by adriftatsea » Apr 20 2016 3:26pm

Another Hope user here (Pro II Evo) - no issues to date.

Also there's lots of talk about the noise of gearbox, but I think most people move out of my way on sidewalks and stuff because of the 'clack, clack, clack' of the hub as slow down :).
[Santa Cruz Heckler] - Tangent 80:1 RC mid-drive, 12s 16ah, 44t, clutched derailleur, Fox 40/dhx5, Hope mono6ti. Pic: http://imgur.com/XAt85di
[e-kart/buggy thing] - ME1003, Alltrax 7245, 400a, 20s60ah (leaf modules), CA3. Pic: http://imgur.com/ZOpCJ6I
[Bad Boy Buggy XT] - Dual DC motors, Curtis 1268 @ 400A/ea, 14s120ah leaf modules, CA3

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Re: Dave's 80:1 RC mid drive kit build log

Post by tomtom » Apr 20 2016 3:59pm

Thank you guys.

Just FYI

Stay away from Novatec, Sun Ringle and shimano. Novatec - broken pawls, Sunringle - main axle keep breaking /i broke 3 of them/ /freehub body literally stripped of hub - pawls and pawl race skipping/ Shimano bearing are terrible and non reparable - all in 142x12

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tangentdave   1 kW

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Re: Dave's 80:1 RC mid drive kit build log

Post by tangentdave » Apr 20 2016 11:08pm



This is Eric Olson having fun on the pump track after Sea Otter. He's on a Banshee Phantom 29er running a 3210 kit with a Rohloff Speedhub in the back.


-dave
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tangentmotors.com

Ham   1 kW

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Re: Dave's 80:1 RC mid drive kit build log

Post by Ham » Apr 21 2016 6:04pm

Great to see videos Dave. ..mine will be coming soon i promise. ..
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Re: Dave's 80:1 RC mid drive kit build log

Post by bigsi » Apr 23 2016 1:14pm

Hi do you think you'll ever sell this system? I'll definitely take one straight away. Fantastic job
specialized s-works enduro carbon running 18FET Lyen. crystalyte 5304v3 running 105v 15ah....
I build quick release custom batteries to any size and shape. Including custom installs.

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tangentdave   1 kW

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Re: Dave's 80:1 RC mid drive kit build log

Post by tangentdave » Apr 23 2016 1:34pm

Hey Bigsi. Check this out: http://www.tangentmotors.com, webstore is open. I need to update the for sale listing apparently.
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lightrush   10 W

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Re: Dave's 80:1 RC mid drive kit build log

Post by lightrush » Apr 23 2016 6:47pm

So here's someone passing by on The Chainsaw. This is the new, lower-noise transmission Dave posted about a week or so back. The system is running from lower mid to high RPM so this is about as noisy as it gets. Personally, I think it's the sound is perfectly acceptable. I don't know why it wouldn't embed the YouTube video but here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDdd1B8Vavk

Note that the system shown on the video accelerates slowly because it's severely limited to the Canadian legal limit of 500W/32kph and throttle ramps are set to very low values.
Last edited by lightrush on Apr 24 2016 2:53pm, edited 3 times in total.

Ham   1 kW

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Re: Dave's 80:1 RC mid drive kit build log

Post by Ham » Apr 24 2016 3:57am

The lack of noise is such a plus with this and the fact that it is visually so subtle...each person that has seen the bike just assumed it was a normal bike when i showed mine.

The sound is great for gear changes too and if i happen to pass people i just back off the throttle and coast, down shift and off i go again.

More testing today now I've a new cassette and chain.
http://www.HamsFitness.com Strength, Conditioning & Diet

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Esting   100 mW

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Re: Dave's 80:1 RC mid drive kit build log

Post by Esting » Apr 24 2016 6:38pm

Dave
I am confused the Castle Creations Phoenix Edge HV 80 Specs input voltage is MIN: 3S LiPo | MAX: 12S LiPo
you say Battery Requirements: 50V max (12S LiPo or 14s Li-ion recommended)
12s is 38.4 to 50.4v
13s is 42.0 to 54.6v
14s is 45.2 to 58.8v this 14s way beyond the MAX 12s rating of the HV80.
Last edited by Esting on Apr 24 2016 6:59pm, edited 1 time in total.

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tangentdave   1 kW

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Re: Dave's 80:1 RC mid drive kit build log

Post by tangentdave » Apr 24 2016 6:50pm

14s works great on the Castle HV controllers. Full charge on 14s reads about 57.5V and in practice most of the time the system voltage is 50-52V, so...perfect :)

The Castle Creations stuff is quality. We're not using as intended, but we're not too far off either. The constantly varying motor RPM due to the reduction and mid drive setup keep the controller from being stressed very often.

-dave
GGMT/Tangent 8kW
tangentmotors.com

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Esting   100 mW

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Re: Dave's 80:1 RC mid drive kit build log

Post by Esting » Apr 24 2016 7:06pm

Thanks Dave
OK what you a saying is that Castle Creations HV line is underrated and is the typical 63V Max capacitors

I see that Astro can add a Temperature Sensor 32xx for $15 can you make it work with the CA V3?

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tangentdave   1 kW

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Re: Dave's 80:1 RC mid drive kit build log

Post by tangentdave » Apr 24 2016 8:13pm

Sure, it can plug right in. The CA has a setting for thermal rollback.
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