HPC Revolution XXX

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
Leeleeducati
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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by Leeleeducati » May 22, 2017 9:03 am

Chris if you're reading this, you once asked me for feedback on the Sturmey Archer RX-RK5. After doing the testing, I can not give this IGH a passing grade for ebike use.

The immediate things to point out are that the axle is a bit small at 8mm flat and while it held strong, I'm not sure I'd want to drop off anything all that high with 8mm. Also, the sprocket is 1/8" so only single speed chains, bmx etc. will work, which limits what you can have on your front chainring (mtb wise anyway). I was using narrow/wide and obviously those didn't work, had to switch to a cheap steel chainring for testing. As for performance, this shifting is okay but note there were times where it had trouble shifting in to gears (despite indexed shifter). I would have to either stop pedalling, then pedal some more then try the shifter again, not ideal when you're riding. I tried a few times with cable adjustment as you would with a normal derailleur but could only get 90% at best.

But those weren't the big deal breakers. The thing I just couldn't get around no matter what was the engagement. I'm not sure exactly what's on the inside as far as mechanics, but what it felt like and performed like was a hub with only one prawl. So if you were just past the engagement point, you would have to pedal almost a full revolution without moving (or engagement) till it connected again. It's a very unusual feeling (like pedalling without a chain) and there's just no getting around this "delay". It can even be felt when you twist the throttle and there's a delay in engaging.

It is however a very robust hub, but perhaps not for this application. Needless to say, it's off my bike now.
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tikivic
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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by tikivic » May 22, 2017 6:15 pm

Not to hijack your thread, but I'm trying out a Rohloff IGH and so far it's working flawlessly. Shifts are crisp and positive. I only have about 120 miles on it right now but no issues yet. It's combined with a Cyclone mid drive. Also I incorporated the Gear Sensor with it because it would not shift under even moderate power. The Gear Sensor works fantastic with it. However, one could just blip the throttle to shift if they wanted to, that worked as well. Also, its a 10mm axle, so a bit more robust.
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dtx1
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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by dtx1 » May 22, 2017 6:45 pm

Not to hijac your hijack tikivic, How did you install the gearsensor? Do you use two?

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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by tikivic » May 23, 2017 12:21 pm

No, just one. It works both directions so to speak. In one direction it's a very short motor cutout, and the other way its about 1.5 seconds I would say. So actually depending on what direction you install it you can adjust the power delay. In my case, I installed it on the "upper" Rohloff cable which is the the cable that moves you up through the gears. For this I used the "long" pause, and on a downshift its the "short" pause. ALSO - per the Luna recommendations I ordered the Derailleur model (as opposed to the IGH model) - they specifically recommended this just for the Rohloff hub. I'm not really sure what the difference is between the two Gear Sensors but maybe its the cutout delay length?

Leeleeducati
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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by Leeleeducati » Jun 08, 2017 9:36 am

Caught a glimpse of something very interesting on Hi Power Cycles' (HPC) website... might just be the thing I'm waiting for. This pic is on their Facebook site, no info yet, but will be waiting to see what they develop. In the meantime it'll be a hub for now. The MXUS V3 is such a bargain, problem is fitting again in the drop outs.
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Leeleeducati
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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by Leeleeducati » Jun 08, 2017 10:38 am

I was looking at the MXUS V3 dimensions online and there's dimensional drawings of 142mm axle with an offset of 5.9mm (L41mm/R37.5mm). The MXUS website itself states 138.5mm with 3.3mm offset (L41mm/R41mm). Not sure if the mfg's don't want to actually publish the correct numbers, but if you're thinking of custom mounting, get one in your hand and measure it. Mine was 138.5mm with a 4.75mm offset. Had to make a 9.5mm washer with cable relief and offset the rotor with an 8mm spacer to get the Hope calipers in there. It will be centered in a 148mm dropout. Time for more machining... I should add, if you're using gears you might want the wheel dish, I'm just going to use a single speed freewheel so centering the hub is fine for me.
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Leeleeducati
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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by Leeleeducati » Jun 20, 2017 4:53 pm

Yup, one more revision to the dropouts... now I have 157mm, 135mm and now 148mm. I though I'd make this version with an replaceable/adjustable spacer in case I still need to adjust the brake in or out based on the V3. It was all calculated out and then the cable got in the way. You can see the reliefs I had to file out to allow it to sit in it's neutral position when routed through the frame.
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Leeleeducati
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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by Leeleeducati » Jun 20, 2017 4:57 pm

Originally I had the rotor 8mm out from the hub, then the rotor bolts were too close to the cable, they actually rubbed on each turn. I've ordered some lower profile M5 head hex bolts so with these and machining the spacer down to 6.5mm I clear the cable. You can see why I had to go modular/adjustable on the brake mount.
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VirgilBudBrigman
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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by VirgilBudBrigman » Jun 20, 2017 6:01 pm

Can't wait till your ride gets back to being a mid-drive again. Keep up the great work and be sure to have lots of fun on it! :D

Leeleeducati
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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by Leeleeducati » Jun 20, 2017 6:26 pm

I feel the same! The hub is just temporary. It buys me time in between so I don't lose out on the summer. I feel like we're on the cusp of some new motor revolution. With the 15k kW on HPC and some other pancakes and even members building their own I've seen here on ES, if I wait it out a bit something interesting will present itself. The idea would be to use the same space as the 160S but with gear reduction.

Simpleton
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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by Simpleton » Jun 20, 2017 8:39 pm

Leeleeducati wrote:Caught a glimpse of something very interesting on Hi Power Cycles' (HPC) website... might just be the thing I'm waiting for. This pic is on their Facebook site, no info yet, but will be waiting to see what they develop. In the meantime it'll be a hub for now. The MXUS V3 is such a bargain, problem is fitting again in the drop outs.
If I'm not mistaken, that's a Neu 80XX outrunner. They are very similar to the Leomotion 80XX series of motors. You can get a reverse shaft option for $25 more IIRC.

http://neumotors.com/80xx-series-electric-motors/

http://www.leomotion.com/pi.php/LEO-L8038-140.html

Ham
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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by Ham » Aug 10, 2017 3:49 pm

Just checked in on this post after some time and see you guys trying out IGH...a little feedback for you:

I have been using the Alfine 8 on my Tangent kit for a few hundred miles now and it is smooth, shifts very cleanly and has held up to everything I have thrown at it so far from off roading to commuting. Impressed so far and a pretty cheap investment that has cleaned up my chain line an handlebars :)
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gman1971
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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by gman1971 » Aug 10, 2017 4:42 pm

Ham wrote:Just checked in on this post after some time and see you guys trying out IGH...a little feedback for you:

I have been using the Alfine 8 on my Tangent kit for a few hundred miles now and it is smooth, shifts very cleanly and has held up to everything I have thrown at it so far from off roading to commuting. Impressed so far and a pretty cheap investment that has cleaned up my chain line an handlebars :)
Thank you very much. Greatly appreciated. I am also considering going IGH. Do you have a disc brake? Thanks.

G.
I am all about high-speed, low-drag, mid-drives and gears...
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Ham
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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by Ham » Aug 10, 2017 11:37 pm

Sure so, just had to change to a centre lock disc brake and all was fine
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Leeleeducati
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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by Leeleeducati » Aug 11, 2017 12:32 pm

Couple guys were asking about controller settings and what I use for brake cutoff. I use the KLS7240S. It's a beast of a controller, and very fast off the line. The problems people were having with connecting throttle thru the CAV3 I also had at the beginning. The controller does a great job with the programming and restrictions so set your limits there. Have the CA in pass through but still set everything (all control amps/ramp/etc.) much higher than that of the Kelly. Someone with more knowledge can chime in here, but from experience, I had odd oscillation at top end (cut in/ cut out) when I was trying to govern (even in pass-thru) with setting in both controller and CA. Sticking to the Kelly and having the CA set much higher smoothed this out to perfection. It's a very controllable, smoooooth throttle.
Last edited by Leeleeducati on Aug 11, 2017 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Leeleeducati
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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by Leeleeducati » Aug 11, 2017 12:37 pm

As for brake cut off, I ordered these through Ali Express and magnets (3/8") thru LeeValley (for the CAD guys). They work amazing, even tiny pulls in the brake move the magnet just outside of range and cut power, they are very very sensitive and super easy to set-up. I epoxied the magnets to those convenient adjusters on the Hopes. The Bafangs are just double sided tape and ziptied, they don't move.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/BAFANG- ... 0.0.t6dowf
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.a ... 2363,42348

And also have an "on/off" at my thumb (seen in the pic beside the throttle), in addition to a key and main breaker. Both LH/RH brake cutoff and on/off are wired in parallel and connected to the CA so if anyone of them are shorted, the CA stops power.
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elser2
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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by elser2 » Apr 09, 2018 3:30 am

Quick question Leeleeducati, Did you ditch the revolt? if so what was the reason? I was thinking of buying one of the newer RV160E versions. I am questioning my choice though, as I have yet to see a successful build using these motors.

Leeleeducati
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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by Leeleeducati » Apr 09, 2018 9:25 am

The 160 was fine, I didn't have the same problems everyone else did with overheating, but then again I never really pushed it either. My issue was the size in the frame and the wow factor. I had plans to revise with some reduction in the frame, but space was limited. As for the wow, I just didn't get any with my setup on that motor. The Kelly was more than capable of the amps, but I think the motor just didn't have the same umps. With the Mxus 3k, the XXX flies nicely.

Sadly it sits behind a drywall project my wife is bugging me to finish. In parallel I'm also working on a Tangent builds so time is very limited.

I may just sell the XXX if there's anyone local who's interested.
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morati
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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by morati » Apr 09, 2018 10:06 am

John in TO here....You're gonna like the Tangent. I'm only running the 3210/PAS version on my Santa Cruz 5010 but its more than enough power for the single track in Ontario.

Leeleeducati
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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by Leeleeducati » Apr 09, 2018 11:43 am

Cool, went 3220 with the removable can on Dave’s 2.0, just need him to ship it!

Where in ON do you ride Morati?

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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by morati » Apr 09, 2018 11:48 am

Leeleeducati wrote:
Apr 09, 2018 11:43 am
Cool, went 3220 with the removable can on Dave’s 2.0, just need him to ship it!

Where in ON do you ride Morati?
Everywhere and anywhere within 2hrs of TO. I have some epic trails for you to ride if you want to hook up this summer. Palgrave Forest, Bruce Trail near Caledon, Hilton Falls in the winter time (best snow riding in the GTA), 3-Stage in Collingwood, Dufferin Forest just north of Mansfield, etc...Used to race Expert XC mountainbike so I'm familiar with just about everything in southern Ontario.

Leeleeducati
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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by Leeleeducati » Apr 09, 2018 5:42 pm

For sure on the rides! Weather isn’t where is should but soon... still need some time... gotta build my battery for the new rig.

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madin88
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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by madin88 » Apr 15, 2018 11:51 am

Leeleeducati wrote:
Jun 08, 2017 9:36 am
Caught a glimpse of something very interesting on Hi Power Cycles' (HPC) website... might just be the thing I'm waiting for. This pic is on their Facebook site, no info yet, but will be waiting to see what they develop. In the meantime it'll be a hub for now. The MXUS V3 is such a bargain, problem is fitting again in the drop outs.
This is Neumotor 8039 series :wink:

http://neumotors.com/80xx-series-electric-motors/

or from Leomotion (rebrand):

http://www.leomotion.com/pi.php/LEO-L8038-100.html

I am working on a belt drive with the 8057 series 75kv motor. The numbers mean stator diameter x width.
It looks promising so far. Check out my thread: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 30&t=91144

Leeleeducati
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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by Leeleeducati » Apr 15, 2018 7:49 pm

Good to note madin88, I’ll follow your build to see how it goes. I ordered one of Dave’s 6k Tangents for another build I’m doing so I’ll see how it performs but it’s very possible I may just stuff one of those in there to lighten it back up again.

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