HPC Revolution XXX

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
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Leeleeducati   100 W

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HPC Revolution XXX

Post by Leeleeducati » Jul 14 2015 7:34pm

After what felt like forever I finally got my frame and it was well worth the wait. Yes very expensive but this thing oooozes quality. It's hard to tell from the pictures but when you are up close and personal you'll get what I mean. So the plan is to do something special with it, coming from a moto and MTB background there's very specific things I need this build to be about and motor being in the frame is key. I took some initial pics to start the thread, test fit some different BB's to start getting an idea of design and clearances. Looks like there's room for an "elegant" build so let's see what possibilities I can come up with.
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OCD   100 W

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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by OCD » Jul 14 2015 7:48pm

:?:

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ohzee   1 MW

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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by ohzee » Jul 14 2015 7:59pm

Looks nice. Look forward to the build.

Leeleeducati   100 W

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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by Leeleeducati » Jul 14 2015 8:19pm

Will probably need a 128 vs 148.
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Leeleeducati   100 W

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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by Leeleeducati » Jul 15 2015 9:55am

Here's a reduction I made for a previous build. It worked well, wasn't designed for any huge power so I got away fine with the "medium" duty gears. You can see the spare gears I had and didn't need. Played around with different combinations of gearing. I'm planning a 3220 so I'll probably have to go with a bit heavier duty on the second and final output after I prove out this concept. What's nice is you can get 3,4,5 reductions (and others) so any combinations from 9-25 etc. can be made in a small package, more if you have the room, I'm probably limited to 2 gears only with the width I have.
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Leeleeducati   100 W

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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by Leeleeducati » Jul 15 2015 9:56am

The reduction is really no bigger than the Astros so fitting it all in should be okay.
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Leeleeducati   100 W

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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by Leeleeducati » Jul 15 2015 9:59am

Another angle... there's room. And before anyone jumps on the topic of heat, there's plans for a cooling jacket or other forms of forced air/heatsink somewhere in there... just need to get the mechanics ironed out, start driving the wheel and then i can work on all the other problems.
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Leeleeducati   100 W

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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by Leeleeducati » Jul 15 2015 9:48pm

Didn't fiddle too much more with ebike mechanics but did want to mount the headset and fork. The steer tube is long, I used a CaneCreek angle set in case I wanted to adjust steer angle as I plan a 650 build and I maxed the crown distances on the Dorados. It's starting to take shape.
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Emoto   10 kW

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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by Emoto » Jul 16 2015 9:55am

Arr first revolution build iv'e seen, a really nice frame... like the swingarm and vgood welding by the looks you must be happy :D will be keeping an eye on this build.

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ferret   1 kW

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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by ferret » Jul 16 2015 2:12pm

I see that you installed freewheeling cranks.
I think that an Astro setup is more suitable for a left hand drive.
At least that is what I'm planning for my next build.

Avner.
Don't believe everything you think.

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Astral Rune build thread

Leeleeducati   100 W

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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by Leeleeducati » Jul 16 2015 3:36pm

I'm not really fully committed to the Astros, the small compact design was appealing. As for LH/RH, shouldn't matter in this build at this stage. Gears, ratios etc. all still up in the air. My more immediate concern is the rear drop outs. I get the design challenges HPC faced now that I have the frame in my hands. The rear was designed for a hub motor, standard MTB dimensions don't fit all that well. Then add 650B into the equation and that's another thing... If I go with a 150 rear the axle spacing vs. available standard 12mm axles is a bit limited. It starts crossing into fat bike sizing and I'm not all that impressed with the available components in that category vs. downhill stuff. The rear is about 180mm wide, kinda in the middle of everything. So the idea is still a single speed rear and no rear derailer or tensioner. The dropouts must be slotted to allow for chain tensioning. The dropouts themselves are simple, add the single speed version and the LH caliper mount becomes the challenge... In any case the build will get there... Maybe I'll mount the V4's in the meantime while I dwell on the dropouts.

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recumpence   100 GW

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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by recumpence » Jul 16 2015 6:53pm

I noticed the same thing with my Raptor frame. It is not easy converting a hub motor swing arm to standard.

HPC has one of my drives in hand. They should just make a frame for it. Phasor already has....... (Our at least they should make a frame for mid drive)

Matt
1% of the world's population can think "Outside the box". The rest are firmly stuck within the box. Where are you?

Leeleeducati   100 W

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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by Leeleeducati » Jul 16 2015 8:06pm

Hey Matt,

I was also eyeing one of your drives for this... I think there's room in there, the limited slip is very appealing. I was going to reach out to you for some overall dimensions of your most compact unit. Have a look at the pics I'm about to post, would something fit inside? I'd be willing to sacrifice about 5" into the battery area for a drive. I'm also okay with making a small incision (or two) for the chain to pass through just above the crank freewheel to keep everything contained. Mounting wouldn't be all too difficult, there's plenty of "boxed" area for welding a subframe between the width.

My main goal for this is around 60kmph but be the wheelie and hill machine. I don't need top end for the single track around here, just light and nimble hence my desire not to have the 20lbs hub on my rear wheel. It may never see pavement.

So even reducing 7500 rpm down 5, then using the smallest "normal" freewheel to a mid size chainring (don't want to go any bigger really for looks more than anything) before any reductions back to the rear wheel still spins the crank at 500+. I can get the rear wheel RPM inline, but the the crank still spins too fast. Ideally I'd need a real compact 10 reduction off your drive.

I'm open to any suggestions...

Leeleeducati   100 W

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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by Leeleeducati » Jul 16 2015 8:07pm

The V4 floating rotors. Dual layers, heat dissipation at it's best.
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Leeleeducati   100 W

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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by Leeleeducati » Jul 16 2015 8:10pm

Some dimensions.
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Leeleeducati   100 W

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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by Leeleeducati » Jul 16 2015 8:24pm

This might actually give a better indication of what's available inside. Forgive the crude freehand, I'll fire up CAD when the time comes.
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Leeleeducati   100 W

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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by Leeleeducati » Jul 16 2015 8:30pm

Here it is inside.
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sascha2770   100 mW

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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by sascha2770 » Jul 19 2015 12:15pm

This frame is awesome. How much $ did it cost?

What about a rv120 pro? There was a member here called chupa (or something like that) he cooled his 1680w cyclone so good that he was able to run about 5000w through this little thing. He installed a 20w cooler.

This frame needs 15 kw mate :twisted:

Edit: the rv120 has a very low kv, so no need for that high reduction :)
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewto ... 28&t=68648 here's the link for his "chupasos"

Do you want to go directly to the rear or through the pedal drive train?

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macribs   1 GW

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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by macribs » Jul 19 2015 12:28pm

IIRC the frame price was 2K or close to it. HPC had 10 barebone frame kits for ES members available. According to the for sale thread they are all gone. I don't know if the frame kit will be available anymore or of the only way to get one is to buy a complete bike. Look up the sale thread and shoot them a PM - maybe you get lucky.

Leeleeducati   100 W

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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by Leeleeducati » Jul 19 2015 12:36pm

I was also looking at those. The motor would be sticking out one side but something somewhere has to get sacrificed. There's also the option of extending out the frame covers, adding another bit of dimension to those could solve some problems. I have a rear hub and 128mm on order... everything delays a week or two waiting for new parts. The rear RH dropout is designed, just have to work on the LH with brake mount. I'll post some new pics soon.

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macribs   1 GW

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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by macribs » Jul 19 2015 1:37pm

As the Revolution got a rather small/compact battery box you might wanna consider using the revolt motor with single reduction. The revolt could be placed on the swing arm, leaving all of the enclosed space/battery box for batteries/controllers. This way you keep your ride lightweight, you save the precious battery space for batteries only and you will still have the the weight of the Revolt as sprung weight and away from the rear wheel. Should make your bike ride and handle well.

Image
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Leeleeducati   100 W

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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by Leeleeducati » Jul 19 2015 2:12pm

The battery box is fine if used for batteries, it's when trying to stuff a motor in there that robs a bit of space. Sure there's monster wide frames that would hold more, but again, not really the main goal for this build. I appreciate all the feedback, keep the comments/suggestions coming.

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Samd   1.21 GW

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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by Samd » Jul 19 2015 11:13pm

Like that swingarm design - interesting.
http://ballaratebikes.com/

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Leeleeducati   100 W

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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by Leeleeducati » Jul 20 2015 3:08am

That Norco looks interesting! I wonder what kind of performance they are seeing? With the 148mm BB and 36mm offset on the Echos I have about 7.5" clearance so the width issue should be fine for peddling. I've ordered my 650 setup so when I build up those wheels I will have a better idea of wheel clearance, under swing arm is something to consider.

Leeleeducati   100 W

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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by Leeleeducati » Jul 21 2015 7:11am

I think I may have found what will solve the in frame motor issue. I was speaking with Alexey at Revolt, looks like they are working on "short" versions of the RV100/120 and a new 160 pro. The 160 is approx. 165mm diam. x 85mm wide, shaft is 20mm, kV's can be custom but approx. 35-45. Check out these pics. The RV120 is designed for ebike hence the covers, but if I can the 160 looks real appealing. Since these aren't out yet there was limited information, but looks like the next few weeks they should be available. Target pricing was also shared (not official), but even the RV160 pro looks like considerable less than the 3220.
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