HPC Revolution XXX

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
Jordan.1
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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by Jordan.1 » Feb 26, 2016 4:08 pm

macribs wrote:
Cause i want to geht some warranty
You can buy ie Adaptto from Artur/Vector. Because you are then dealing with a German company. Check with him.
For all I know there are also various German sources for Kelly, Sabvaton etc.
yeah i know, but they are mostly really expensive compared to the "infineon style" controller i can buy in the shop just a few mins away (ive got some luck, the company is called "ebike solutions", and they are like the biggest ebike company in germany and i have great support back there).

And of course these controllers are extremely moddable, so i can just buy a 18fet 4110, put thicker phase wires in, add a bit copper to the shunt and the traces. like this i can get 70-80 amps from the battery without any problems + i wanted to add active cooling system with two small 40mm fans, one blowing in, one blowing out the air. and of course i already have the equippment to programm these, and i know the hardware pretty good, so its better for me to buy this one.
but still i got to admit, these adaptto controllers have considerably much power if you compare the sizes. But after all, mine will just be a bit bigger as the mid e with the same amount of power but ways cheaper..and i can use the cycle analyst again :D

Leeleeducati
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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by Leeleeducati » Feb 26, 2016 7:11 pm

Let's see if I can get this thread back on topic. Initial wire connections made to get spinning. I will of course hide/tuck/solder and connect properly them all into the frame on final assembly so don't mind that mess. Still sourcing batteries so I only had this 24v power supply to get testing. Don't mind my kids screaming in the background :) the motor feels powerful. Also don't mind the wobbly back tire it somehow developed a bulge and isn't smooth anymore, it's getting replaced.

http://youtu.be/qTwRsPvFrcw

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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by JumperJackFlash » Feb 26, 2016 7:19 pm

Ditto what your kid said..."that's an awesome bike!!!"

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speedmd
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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by speedmd » Feb 28, 2016 11:05 am

Sounds fast! Look forward to seeing this fly!

Leeleeducati
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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by Leeleeducati » Feb 28, 2016 5:50 pm

I took the one cover off to wire and it got me thinking... 72 maybe even 60V will be plenty, even with this 24V power supply this motor spins strong. You certainly can't hold that shaft by hand. If I go 60v I could probably up the cell capacity. I'm sure there's losses as we discussed in depth, but if you listen for the "clack" when I let go the throttle, the motor still spins for a while yet so not sure there's all that much effect. Max amp draw too will be limited on the controller/CA and throttle V ramp on the CA. I will be ordering some of those Tesla cells off okashira tomorrow maybe 150 to either go 15s10p or 18s8p to start. Here's another vid.

https://youtu.be/RjeAEK-sKYU

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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by sn0wchyld » Feb 29, 2016 3:52 am

Leeleeducati wrote:I took the one cover off to wire and it got me thinking... 72 maybe even 60V will be plenty, even with this 24V power supply this motor spins strong. You certainly can't hold that shaft by hand. If I go 60v I could probably up the cell capacity. I'm sure there's losses as we discussed in depth, but if you listen for the "clack" when I let go the throttle, the motor still spins for a while yet so not sure there's all that much effect. Max amp draw too will be limited on the controller/CA and throttle V ramp on the CA. I will be ordering some of those Tesla cells off okashira tomorrow maybe 150 to either go 15s10p or 18s8p to start. Here's another vid.

https://youtu.be/RjeAEK-sKYU
I'd stick with the higher voltage setup. the load on your batteries wont change (for the same power), but generally speaking you'll get better power and efficiency out of your motor by spinning it faster.

its hard to tell with vids, but the motor seems reasonably quiet? particularly when attached to the frame that'd act like a huge resonator.. that all may change when you're spinning it 2-3 times faster though hahah

Jordan.1
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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by Jordan.1 » Feb 29, 2016 4:40 am

Yeah that motor is nice and quiet. it has some really good bearings inside.. nsk i guess.
the the chain will be quite loud ;)

i was thinking of a belt drive for my build, but the thing is that belt drives need big amounts of preload to not slip, but that would wear out the bearings quite fast. and, a chain wont rip if its correctly mounted once. if its not, it would just rip after a few meters..

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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by korpin » Mar 03, 2016 3:58 pm

GREAT BUILD DUCATTI!....here is photo of mine sinewave adappto with MXUS 4T runs smooth and quiet probably yours will climb better i am sure!
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JumperJackFlash
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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by JumperJackFlash » Mar 03, 2016 4:35 pm

Hey Korbin,

Looking good!!!

Which rims did you use from Pro Wheels?

Leeleeducati
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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by Leeleeducati » Mar 03, 2016 6:53 pm

Nice build korpin, post some performance spec? Batt? Crank/gears?

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DanGT86
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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by DanGT86 » Mar 04, 2016 2:54 am

Korpin,

How are you going to post a picture of your bike on a Dyno with no mention of power numbers? Thats not right!

toolman2
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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by toolman2 » Mar 04, 2016 8:41 am

DanGT86 wrote:Korpin,

How are you going to post a picture of your bike on a Dyno with no mention of power numbers? Thats not right!
No its right Dan.
Thats not relevent around here, its only measured at the battery and its often 10, 20 or 30 something kw, and thats enough said. :wink:
-if you must complicate things though, and want to measure what you are trying to achieve, max acceleration (peak torque, likeley readable at around 10kph) then you find out that (Lukes deathbike aside :) ) you dont even get 3kw output. when you compare it to your battery draw at that point, the harsh truth is revealed.

Im not here just to be an ass though, it would be awesome to see dyno figures Korpin and we should have a place for them. Those dynojet bike dynos are really good, way more accurate than car dynos that tend to over-read, ive tested lots of motors and will try post some info in that section shortly, and pretty keen for some numbers on the big revolt 160 to see if it can match the lighter but pricier Joby for max output, i really want to know and will merrily test one and post info.

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Miles
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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by Miles » Mar 04, 2016 12:38 pm

toolman2 wrote:No its right Dan.
Thats not relevent around here, its only measured at the battery and its often 10, 20 or 30 something kw, and thats enough said. :wink:
No need for the t-word, either..... :)

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DanGT86
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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by DanGT86 » Mar 05, 2016 1:46 am

Not sure what just happened. I guess a little bit gets lost in translation into text and smilies. I just thought it was funny that it went relatively unnoticed that Korpin's ride was parked on a Dyno. I was also not trying to be an ass.

I am also really curious to see more real world numbers from the Revolt motors. With the relatively low KV and RC motor type construction, they seem to be exactly what we have all been waiting for yet there aren't that many builds with them. Been watching this build to see that Revolt in action.

On a semi related note, back a page or so in this thread there was talk of flux leakage with this motor and surrounding metal close to the case. Is this an issue that only effects outrunners since the magnets are close to the outside of the case?

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Miles
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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by Miles » Mar 05, 2016 2:55 am

DanGT86 wrote:Not sure what just happened. I guess a little bit gets lost in translation into text and smilies. I just thought it was funny that it went relatively unnoticed that Korpin's ride was parked on a Dyno. I was also not trying to be an ass.
Don't worry Dan. toolman2 was agreeing with you and making a general point, at the same time.

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Miles
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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by Miles » Mar 05, 2016 3:07 am

DanGT86 wrote:On a semi related note, back a page or so in this thread there was talk of flux leakage with this motor and surrounding metal close to the case. Is this an issue that only effects outrunners since the magnets are close to the outside of the case?
Generally, yes. You could have problems within an inrunner motor if there was insufficient rotor back iron material but it wouldn't be affected so much by the proximity of conductive materials close, but not electrically contiguous with, the case.

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izeman
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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by izeman » Mar 05, 2016 5:00 am

korpin wrote:GREAT BUILD DUCATTI!....here is photo of mine sinewave adappto with MXUS 4T runs smooth and quiet probably yours will climb better i am sure!
are you sure that lacing the front wheel (almost) straight is a good idea? brake forces are massive and you will need 2-3x crossing spokes ideally.

Jordan.1
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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by Jordan.1 » Mar 06, 2016 4:06 am

izeman wrote:
korpin wrote:GREAT BUILD DUCATTI!....here is photo of mine sinewave adappto with MXUS 4T runs smooth and quiet probably yours will climb better i am sure!
are you sure that lacing the front wheel (almost) straight is a good idea? brake forces are massive and you will need 2-3x crossing spokes ideally.
Im working as a bike mechanic and i can confirm that. straight spokes arent good for disc brakes. for rim braking, they are fine. You should feel a big lack of stiffness

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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by korpin » Mar 09, 2016 10:42 pm

Jordan.1 wrote:
izeman wrote:
korpin wrote:GREAT BUILD DUCATTI!....here is photo of mine sinewave adappto with MXUS 4T runs smooth and quiet probably yours will climb better i am sure!
are you sure that lacing the front wheel (almost) straight is a good idea? brake forces are massive and you will need 2-3x crossing spokes ideally.
Im working as a bike mechanic and i can confirm that. straight spokes arent good for disc brakes. for rim braking, they are fine. You should feel a big lack of stiffness
you are right...place where i got my previous wheels done guy was on vacation some old man (sorry sod) no longer gives a shit just my luck he did my wheels

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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by korpin » Mar 27, 2016 8:37 pm

as far as the straight spokes and brake issue using regen so its not a huge deal...came across an old house from the late 1800's riding in the hills around my valley
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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by izeman » Mar 29, 2016 11:09 am

i was talking about the FRONT wheel. braking forces at the front wheel are multiples of your motor's power. and the rear motor was x-laced for a reason ;)
in case of an emergency braking your hub may eventually just make a nice plop sound and the your face will kiss the ground. even if it's ok at the moment. material fatigue will happen any time soon ...

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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by korpin » Apr 17, 2016 10:19 pm

izeman wrote:i was talking about the FRONT wheel. braking forces at the front wheel are multiples of your motor's power. and the rear motor was x-laced for a reason ;)
in case of an emergency braking your hub may eventually just make a nice plop sound and the your face will kiss the ground. even if it's ok at the moment. material fatigue will happen any time soon ...
yes you are ultimately right...the idiot who did my spokes was not the guy who did my spokes last time....but like I said I am using regen so its not an issue...yet..... they said they would redo them if needed.....right now my main issue is getting the new version 3 motor with thicker phase wires and having it vented and getting a bigger battery-1800-2400 kwatt hours

Leeleeducati
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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by Leeleeducati » May 07, 2016 10:41 am

It's been a bit since I last posted here... finally got my batteries from Tumich. Ended up going with enough Sanyos 3350mAh to build an 18S8P pack for now. Also picked up a spot welder, can't believe how easy it is to build packs with this thing. I tried a bunch of sacrificial cells with some sample 0.15 x 7mm nickel strips and they all turned out great, very strong welds can't pull them apart unless you pry them with pliers. It seems the waiting never ends, now I need more strips, a BMS, shrink wrap, a charger etc. etc. This thing will be unleashed soon!
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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by jansevr » May 07, 2016 12:57 pm

Nice looking spot welder...what brand/model is that? Looks much more compact than some of the other ones ive seen. I definitely need to invest in one soon

Leeleeducati
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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by Leeleeducati » May 07, 2016 2:14 pm

No real brand, it's made by a local electronics guy here near the Toronto Ontario area. This one is convenient because it plugs into standard 110V outlet and has a high/low setting with foot pedal so you can't mess anything up. Just press the welding pen on the nickel & battery, press the foot pedal (pulse is timed regardless of how long you press) and there you have it. They're made to order and he sells them for about $150 USD ($195 CDN).

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