HPC Revolution XXX

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
Lurkin   100 kW

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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by Lurkin » Nov 03 2015 8:19pm

There is a point where engineering and machinery work is art. This is definitely it. :shock:

korpin   10 kW

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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by korpin » Nov 04 2015 12:54am

Leeleeducati wrote:I took it out for a spin as a "bike" today. Spin being the key word, felt like a spin class with the current gears, might change out the rear sprocket just for this phase of testing.
thinking some type of geared drive for front sprocket would solve that...that is why I am going with 34/80 schlumph so i can pedal both uphill from stop and also at 50 MPH......is your rear sprocket going to be internally geared like a rholoff? that may help too

Leeleeducati   100 W

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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by Leeleeducati » Nov 04 2015 7:45am

Correct, Rohloff and Shlumpf would be exactly the way to go if I planned to commute with this bike. However, all the riding I do is either gravity or single track so I don’t plan on pedaling this one. It will either be pointed down a hill or twisting through trees so the pedals are there just for ebike compliance. This is also why top end is not really necessary, I either need to climb or twist. I took it out for chain tension testing and overall mechanics, not really to “ride” it. Dropped it off some curbs, bumps, stairs etc. and all functions as it is supposed to. The frame geometry fits/feels very good and not sure if it's the swing arms extended out a bit or the bikes weight, or the double barrel (it reacts fast, adjustable of course), but this ride is hard to wheelie but the motor should help with that. I just need to power it now.

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speedmd   100 MW

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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by speedmd » Nov 04 2015 9:17am

LeeLee, great looking bike. Look forward to hearing /seeing it run!

Dunkenb   100 mW

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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by Dunkenb » Nov 16 2015 11:30am

Any updates?

Leeleeducati   100 W

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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by Leeleeducati » Nov 16 2015 2:01pm

I was working on sourcing a fairly sophisticated 200amp controller from ASI (same guys Justin uses for the Phaserunner). They’re local here in Ontario but it didn’t look like they were too interested in dealing with endusers direct. It felt like they made up a price and even said there would be zero warranty, that part didn’t sit well with me… So I have a sinewave Kelly in my ever growing parts bin that can handle the amps (250 I think) so I’ve mounted that for now. I just have to fab. a better CA bar mount as I feel the OEM is way too bulky and then I can start the wiring. These are all the updates for now... I'm aiming to get all the wiring done in the next two weeks.
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r3volved   100 kW

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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by r3volved » Nov 16 2015 3:55pm

ya ASI is local to me (same town, only a couple km from my home)...and they definitely are not too engaging with consumers. I was hoping they'd be able to help me setup the Phaserunner but I ended up shelving it for now since they don't care to reply.
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morati   1 kW

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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by morati » Nov 17 2015 12:20pm

Looks incredible and would very much like to get together for an offroad ride sometime when the weather gets nicer.
John

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ridethelightning   1 MW

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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by ridethelightning » Nov 18 2015 5:04am

this thing just looks like its ready to fly!

looks like it will be comfortable with just about any terrain :D
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220volf   1 mW

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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by 220volf » Nov 18 2015 6:29am

Project looks great! Can I buy this frame somewhere?

Leeleeducati   100 W

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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by Leeleeducati » Nov 18 2015 11:30am

Contact Chris at HPC (Hi Power Cycles) they are fantastic to deal with. There's many good reasons to go with this frame vs. others and flexibility is one of them. I will post other pics in the next few weeks, but in fiddling with rear gearing I may try an internally geared hub soon to see that performance and setup. The nice thing now is that I can simply machine different geometry rear dropouts to accept a 135 (currently 157mm). This frame makes it really easy to try/test different set-ups. Even in wheel size I'm running 27.5's nicely. Great work HPC.

220volf   1 mW

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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by 220volf » Nov 19 2015 4:26am

Thanks Leeleeducati! I've considered this project and have some questions:
- Can you use engine without spinning pedals? Maybe i've mistaked, but it seems to be solid connection between pedals ang motor (without freewheel).
- What do you think about this type of suspension and brake jack? Will your suspension work when rear brake is pressed?

Leeleeducati   100 W

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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by Leeleeducati » Nov 19 2015 7:54am

Have a look at the pictures at the top of pg. 8. There's a freewheel at the motor shaft and one at the crank. The pedals and motor can spin independent of each other and are not "connected" in terms of one driving the other. The front and rear brake calipers move up and down with the suspension and are functional throughout the entire movement.

220volf   1 mW

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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by 220volf » Nov 19 2015 10:18am

Will your rear suspension work when rear brake pressed? For exampe in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7-xWSg_wBM suspension makes caliper move along the disc, so when brake is on suspension work hardly. It can be sufficient on downhill. Or this is not problem?

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Wheazel   10 kW

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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by Wheazel » Nov 19 2015 10:45am

220volf wrote:Will your rear suspension work when rear brake pressed? For exampe in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7-xWSg_wBM suspension makes caliper move along the disc, so when brake is on suspension work hardly. It can be sufficient on downhill. Or this is not problem?
I dont see the point here. Yes the suspension might compress slightly when braking the rear wheel,
but you also have a lifting force on the rear if you brake with the front brake at the same time.
I dont think small changes in caliper position will matter much when the wheel is spinning.
I take it that you won't deliberately brake the wheel to a complete stop, as there are no advantages with that.
And even then, whats the issue? Did i miss something critical about rear brake designs?
In my head its just a relationship between "torquearms with different forces".

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speedmd   100 MW

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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by speedmd » Nov 19 2015 10:59am

All single pivot designs suffer from brake torque to some degree. Even double counter rotating pivots do. Double pivots rotating the same direction handle this torque pretty well. It is all not bad as the suspension compresses a bit under braking allowing a somewhat softer ride and less traction loss over washboard surfaces under hard rear braking. Frame builders have played with floating brake assemblies for decades and while good, they fail to catch on IMO due to the complexities and added failure points.
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220volf   1 mW

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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by 220volf » Nov 19 2015 11:43am

I have similar frame now and gathering info to produce my own frame. If I understood correctly, single pivot system, like this, have rather good efficiency and simplicity. Am I right?

And I have another stupid question. Will this bike be single speed? If so what that the suitable spped range for that gears? I this this is for low speed, when you have malfunctions or some like that. What for pedals in this machine? Would not simpler design without pedals? I'm asking this because I have not solved question in my project - to do pedals or not.

Will these freewheels work normal when 12kw will be applied? I think bicycle parts designed for human-like power 300W, but not 40 times powerful. They have small teeth which can cut off. This is my hypothesis, I've never tried powerful mid drive :) But I had accident when traveling on a highway. Rear freewheel suddenly jammed at high speed (about 40 kph) and became to a fixed gear. I took heavy kicks by pedals. Pedals started spinning high. If the speed was greater I would have serious injury.

Leeleeducati   100 W

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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by Leeleeducati » Nov 19 2015 5:38pm

We're not designing for F1 or MotoGP. Let's keep it in perspective what we're actually doing and note these marginal performance debates are inconsequential at this level. Build a bike, power it, break something, rebuild it stronger, keep riding and enjoy. Let's keep it simple :-)

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speedmd   100 MW

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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by speedmd » Nov 19 2015 9:48pm

Yes LeeLee

Perspective! I am dying to see / hear this thing run. I was thinking that anything over 100-120 amps@ 72v into the 160 pro would be risky on a crank drive setup. Look forward to your ride impressions of how the controller - motor work together.

Leeleeducati   100 W

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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by Leeleeducati » Nov 19 2015 11:08pm

Hey speedmd,

Those were exactly the numbers I had in mind. 72V 100-ish amps, I don't need to go anything over that. Life has been soo busy lately, I haven't the time I needed to complete this. There's even the incomplete CA mount raw material clamped in the mill ready to be worked on but just no time. If I can get that complete this weekend and the CA mounted I will wire everything up and work on powering it all up. I'm close but still have a few steps to complete.

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speedmd   100 MW

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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by speedmd » Nov 19 2015 11:28pm

Time! I hear you there. We need one of those 2400 hour /day clocks. :P

Often wondered if the new phase runner controller could run this motor reasonably well. May add some chain life if so.

Leeleeducati   100 W

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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by Leeleeducati » Nov 22 2015 2:22pm

It's a simple piece, but much less bulky than the OEM mount. A good first off "prototype"', but a future revision would be more compact with the CA closer/tighter to the bars. I have no more excuses now, it's time to wire and get spinning.
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izeman   10 GW

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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by izeman » Nov 22 2015 2:58pm

was it made on a cnc lathe? looks great.

Leeleeducati   100 W

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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by Leeleeducati » Nov 22 2015 6:10pm

No, I just rigged it on a rotary table and mill.

Leeleeducati   100 W

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Re: HPC Revolution XXX

Post by Leeleeducati » Dec 06 2015 11:22am

I know it's a small detail, but I didn't want to start wiring till I was happy with the CA mount. I just wasn't settled with V1.0. I want the CA to be tight and close to the bars vs. floating cm's away. V2.0 solved this problem. I even added a step for alignment. I think I mentioned our move before and our house is finally ready so before I take the machines apart for transport I thought I'd machine this one last part. Not to procrastinate but things have been a bit busy lately, the wiring will now start soon. Here's a pic of V2.0 on the rotary table and some finished pic. V2.0 holds the CA nice and tight to the bars, no floating CA.
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