Cyclone 650w-1680W up to 60v @2100W without overheating

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
jonnydrive   100 W

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Re: Cyclone 650w-1680W up to 60v @2100W without overheating

Post by jonnydrive » Jan 17 2016 5:01pm

Koman, with this curved triangle you will not have the problem to fix the engine inside.

But your great bike unfortunately do not have BSA mount for bottom brackets, is for pf30 maybe. How do you think to put the Cyclone entended ISIS or Squared type brackets on the frame?

KOMAN   100 mW

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Re: Cyclone 650w-1680W up to 60v @2100W without overheating

Post by KOMAN » Jan 17 2016 6:33pm

jonnydrive wrote:Koman, with this curved triangle you will not have the problem to fix the engine inside.

But your great bike unfortunately do not have BSA mount for bottom brackets, is for pf30 maybe. How do you think to put the Cyclone entended ISIS or Squared type brackets on the frame?
Image
http://www.bicimarket.com/Transmision-P ... p3940.html
Currently I have Shimano cups.
This system is compatible with the isis Cyclon?
Thanks for your information.

jonnydrive   100 W

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Re: Cyclone 650w-1680W up to 60v @2100W without overheating

Post by jonnydrive » Jan 22 2016 1:39pm

I'am afraid that it is not compatible with cyclone bottom brackets.

Check the diameter of the hole in the frame where you need to fix the bottom brackets, it must be 34 mm. It also need to be threaded

To be sure you may ask directly to Cyclone.

I am searching good enduro bike good for Cyclone, until now only bsa (squared type) or octalink spline ( isis ) seems to be compatible.
Also Specialized with Sram GXP Bottom Bracket are BSA - Cyclone Compatible (ex specialized enduro Comp 2011)

J.
Last edited by jonnydrive on Jan 23 2016 9:30am, edited 2 times in total.

33du   1 mW

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Re: Cyclone 650w-1680W up to 60v @2100W without overheating

Post by 33du » Jan 22 2016 3:06pm

Koman are you 100% sure that you have this kind of?

http://www.bicimarket.com/Transmision-P ... p3940.html

if yes, then isis will fit, but Spezializes says that 2013 model has PF30 which can't be used as far i know

KOMAN   100 mW

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Re: Cyclone 650w-1680W up to 60v @2100W without overheating

Post by KOMAN » Jan 23 2016 4:05pm

Thanks for your advice.
The cyclone kit is on the way home,. Taiwan was sent a week ago.
I think my spezialized pedelier enduro 2011 has 34mm and can be compatible with isis cyclone.

http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bikes/ ... endurocomp
When you start the installation'll see if possible.
I plan to install the engine in the frame triangle (top bottom bracket).
I I will put photos in this post assembly.
Cheers

KOMAN   100 mW

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Re: Cyclone 650w-1680W up to 60v @2100W without overheating

Post by KOMAN » Feb 22 2016 3:52am

Hello, I've assembled the kit, and now it's better.
Thanks for your advice

Image

Image

I hope a new cable to carry the batteries in the backpack
Last edited by KOMAN on Feb 22 2016 4:13am, edited 3 times in total.

jonnydrive   100 W

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Re: Cyclone 650w-1680W up to 60v @2100W without overheating

Post by jonnydrive » Feb 22 2016 4:07am

Nice work KOMAN,

after some ride check the ring that fix the left engine bracket (in the opposite side of the cogs), it must still screwed.
I do not pay attention in that and I had stripped off the thread.

Also check if under heavy torque the engine brackets bends.


Good Ride

Stefano

KOMAN   100 mW

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Re: Cyclone 650w-1680W up to 60v @2100W without overheating

Post by KOMAN » Mar 10 2016 3:36am

I tested the engine singletrack, and has more power and speed than I imagined.
I have placed a limit of 60% power to avoid strong accelerations.
The problems are the lipo batteries 6 cell, 22 v. Live very little.

I have seen these graphene batteries last twice that lithium also can be charged 600 times. http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... ouse_.html
With two batteries would get 32000 mah.
I doubt eventually discharge to 15C.
these batteries can work well with ciclone kit 1680w?
Cheers

jonnydrive   100 W

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Re: Cyclone 650w-1680W up to 60v @2100W without overheating

Post by jonnydrive » Mar 10 2016 10:11am

I have never tried these type of battery. But I'am pretty sure that Cyclone can tolerate any kind of battery.
What matters is voltage and amperage, keep them in range and it runs.

Remember 2 batteries in series 2xVoltage, 1xAmperage
2 batteries in parallels 1xVoltage, 2xAmperage

Lipo battery life is strictly related to how you charge/discharge the battery.
Do you have a Battery Management System (BMS) on your battery pack? BSM is a simple way to keep battery balanced and always in the correct voltage range and ultimately extend the battery life.

In one of your previous posts I saw a picture of your bike with battery pack fixed on the back rack . It's a good idea put the batteries inside a box (better in in aluminium boxes), in case of fall, if the Lipo batteries are punctured they may to explode.

My 1 year-old lipo battery pack with a cheap china BMS, required only one manual balance (2 cells was 0,5 volts lower than the others).

have a good ride
Stefano

33du   1 mW

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Re: Cyclone 650w-1680W up to 60v @2100W without overheating

Post by 33du » Mar 10 2016 1:58pm

Have you noticed that there are discounts on hobbyking lipos

yesterday ordered 4*6S 10000mah, other set is 4*6S 500mah

jonnydrive   100 W

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Re: Cyclone 650w-1680W up to 60v @2100W without overheating

Post by jonnydrive » Mar 11 2016 5:28am

Tanks 33du!

just bought 2*6s 10000 + 1*4s 10000 Multirotor at half price!

KOMAN   100 mW

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Re: Cyclone 650w-1680W up to 60v @2100W without overheating

Post by KOMAN » Mar 11 2016 9:37am

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... ouse_.html

thank you for your advices,
Multistar this option seems the best option. but not as influence Constant Discharge: 10C
Peak Discharge (10sec): 20C, since my turning are 20C 30C.
A package formed 48v 4 units per 2x + 2x parallel series seem light and powerful.

Graphene batteries will be improved. these are the first generation and at first glance are we four times more powerful than lithium. The multiestar are lighter and more economical

[url]lithium.http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... ector.html[/url]

33du   1 mW

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Re: Cyclone 650w-1680W up to 60v @2100W without overheating

Post by 33du » Jun 05 2016 2:37am

Days goes forward and I still have issues with overheating or some power cuts. I can drive in flat without pedaling like 2 km about 25km/h speed, release throttle and then engine shuts down for minute or two.
In forest 100-200m with heavy pulling with pedaling and power cuts again, checked yesterday and voltage was 44,6v while cut happens and after 2 mins waiting power came back and 47,5v

BBSHD ordered allready and Cyclone will be history from my bike:)

jonnydrive   100 W

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Re: Cyclone 650w-1680W up to 60v @2100W without overheating

Post by jonnydrive » Jun 05 2016 12:11pm

Hi 33du,
My experience with power cuts falls on to one of these two options:
- unbalanced/problematic cells: for some reason one of the battery cells drop the voltage below the average especially under heavy engine load. In this case the BMS cut the power, doesn't mater how hard is the slope or how long is the ride. May I suggest to check all cells voltage when power drop happens, if voltage between cells differs more than 0,2 volt you need to balance them (sometimes BMS is unable to do that, you can try manually).
- engine overheating: if you touch the engine and it is hot (hot means you can keep the fingers on it!) maybe the engine overheated. From my experience overheating happens only if you are using the wrong gear. With 44rear and 22front cogs @66 volt I never experienced overheating (except on Summer).

The last possibility is if the gearbox have some problem, how many kilometers have you done with this engine?

33du   1 mW

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Re: Cyclone 650w-1680W up to 60v @2100W without overheating

Post by 33du » Jun 05 2016 12:21pm

I don't have BMS in use, only direct connections to turnigy lipos and after driving all cells have equal voltage.

Probably issue is wrong gear as i have 32 front and 11-17 rear is used in forest trails, engine has cyclone cooling parts and does not cook eggs while cutting down:)

KOMAN   100 mW

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Re: Cyclone 650w-1680W up to 60v @2100W without overheating

Post by KOMAN » Jun 08 2016 2:10am

I have overheating problems. The engine is switched off and at 3 minutes working again.
Change the engine freewheeling one of 13 t and plate bottom bracket by one of 48t. and the engine improved.
but if I go to many revolutions the engine is switched off.

jonnydrive   100 W

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Re: Cyclone 650w-1680W up to 60v @2100W without overheating

Post by jonnydrive » Jun 08 2016 3:02am

As last resource may I suggest to try to plug the tree-way switch limiter provided with cyclone kit?
Limiting the engine max pulse may reduce overheating.

I'am talking about the yellow one in the pictures
Image

KOMAN   100 mW

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Re: Cyclone 650w-1680W up to 60v @2100W without overheating

Post by KOMAN » Jun 14 2016 10:49am

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=68648&p=1035904#p1035904

The forero CHUPA, SOLVE GLOBAL WARMING WITH FANS.
I use the power REDULARDOR three positions, but I can not solve the problem

33du   1 mW

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Re: Cyclone 650w-1680W up to 60v @2100W without overheating

Post by 33du » Jun 14 2016 10:59am

I solved this problem with changing to Bafang BBSHD and difference is like day and night.. about same power, no noisy and works always:)

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crossbreak   100 MW

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Re: Cyclone 650w-1680W up to 60v @2100W without overheating

Post by crossbreak » Jun 14 2016 8:16pm

33du wrote:I solved this problem with changing to Bafang BBSHD and difference is like day and night.. about same power, no noisy and works always:)
haha, this is what i always think when i see people bothering with cyclone. they where cool till BBS drives came up. They work so well as they are, that almost no one overvolts them

jonnydrive   100 W

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Re: Cyclone 650w-1680W up to 60v @2100W without overheating

Post by jonnydrive » Jun 15 2016 12:59am

33du wrote:I solved this problem with changing to Bafang BBSHD and difference is like day and night.. about same power, no noisy and works always:)
hi 33du,
I'm sorry for your problems with Cyclone.

If you give up with that, and if you want, sell to me your cyclone kit as broken parts, I would like to try to repair/check it and try to find the problem, also for the other people with the same problem (i.e. KOMAN).
I am not a wizard, but matching with my actual set up and components, maybe, I can figured out what the problem is.
If I am able to fix it, and you want back your Cyclone, I sell you back exactly ad the same price you sell to me :wink:

Recently I changed the gearbox cogs (after about 6000km of ride with them), the vibrations and the engine noise was reduced by 80%, in the next change I would try the greas-to-oil conversion.

by Stefano

Nathan   10 W

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Re: Cyclone 650w-1680W up to 60v @2100W without overheating

Post by Nathan » Jun 15 2016 2:36am

haha, this is what i always think when i see people bothering with cyclone. they where cool till BBS drives came up. They work so well as they are, that almost no one overvolts them
The BBSHD works well as its low powered ! the only advantage it has is that it's quiet, otherwise its a lot heaver than the cyclone and low power compared to the cyclone.
In stock form the BBSH is only 1.6kw peak vs the cyclone peaks at 2800w ! It has the same power at the 36v 960w cyclone I,e 1.6kw peak.. its not match for the 48v cyclone.

Also the reason people don't overvolt the BBSHD is that the controller will blow up or if you run external controller the plastic gears will melt at 3kw !

The cyclone 1680w is power monster ! some people run it up to 5kw with air cooling.. its capable of a lot more power and hence is more reliable at high power as it has an external controller and steel gears so doesn't have these issues.

cheekybloke   1 kW

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Re: Cyclone 650w-1680W up to 60v @2100W without overheating

Post by cheekybloke » Jun 15 2016 6:05am

I am now running my 1680 watt cyclone motor at 18s and 40a, it does get warm quite quick but i have still not had a thermal cutout.
I am also going to be beta testing some new mods to the AFT version so it will be running at 20s and 70a with fan cooling.
Darren


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crossbreak   100 MW

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Re: Cyclone 650w-1680W up to 60v @2100W without overheating

Post by crossbreak » Jun 17 2016 10:24am

Nathan wrote: its capable of a lot more power and hence is more reliable at high power as it has an external controller and steel gears so doesn't have these issues.
from all the people i see having problems with weak gears, heat, flexing mounts etc even with that stock 35A/48V controller, i'd say power wise these two motors are not so much different, the BBHD is just more reliable and quiet. The nylon gear serves as mechanical fuse to protect the motor in case of overheating or other failures.

From measurements we know that at reasonable rpm at the crank, the cyclone has max efficiency at around 650 W at ~85% motor efficiency. If you want 3000W, using a 3000 W motor makes more sense. Pushing 3000W through a derailleur doesnt work so well either. But from those 3000W from the battery, only 2000W make it to the rear wheel anyway. Motor (76% eff) and three reduction stages (~95% each) eat up a total of 1000W with this drive. So even with a 48V / 60A controller, i would not call it a "3000W motor", even 2000W isn't close to the truth, as it can't take those 2000W power output for longer periods.

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